Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Nobody will trade for him if he won't report. It's the same as a veto. Players wanted teams to guarantee contracts, but they won't guarantee them? It worked when I signed it, but it doesn't work now? I'm not taking a side here. It just seems fckd.

The equivalent of the contract being guaranteed would be that the player is not paid if they do not report. Which is what would happen.

It seems like a sufficiently fair situation to me. By not reporting, he would be losing 12 million dollars in NHL salary, and possibly the remainder of his pro career. Additionally, he is upfront about his unwillingness to report. At this point, if a team acquires him, it is on them.

 

[Loach]

The equivalent of the contract being guaranteed would be that the player is not paid if they do not report. Which is what would happen.

It seems like a sufficiently fair situation to me. By not reporting, he would be losing 12 million dollars in NHL salary, and possibly the remainder of his pro career. Additionally, he is upfront about his unwillingness to report. At this point, if a team acquires him, it is on them.

But he would report to the Rangers. The Rangers want to trade him. They can, it's in the contract, but he won't go...won't honour the contract. Therefore he is untradeable. I would send him to the AHL. It's a mntc. Not a nmc. You don't want to play for an NHL...play in the AHL. You don't want to report....your suspended without pay until you go, accept a trade or the contract is voided. This seems fair too. It's a two way street.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

But he would report to the Rangers. The Rangers want to trade him. They can, it's in the contract, but he won't go...won't honour the contract. Therefore he is untradeable. I would send him to the AHL. It's a mntc. Not a nmc. You don't want to play for an NHL...play in the AHL. You don't want to report....your suspended without pay until you go, accept a trade or the contract is voided. This seems fair too. It's a two way street.

Sending him to the AHL risks leaving the Rangers in limbo for months. He would not have to deal with not reporting until training camp. That would make the Rangers unable to redistribute his cap space, because if he did change his mind and report to the AHL, they would not be able to become cap compliant.

If he eventually did not report at all, they could either suspend him without pay, or terminate his contract.

We're going back and forth. You're acting like there is no gravity to his choice not to report. As if it is some kind of life hack that he is the first NHLer to figure out. There are grave consequences to not reporting. He will either have his contract voided and lose out on 12M in guaranteed NHL salary, or he will be suspended without pay for 2 years with his contract possibly tolled, which unless he changed his mind about reporting, it would effectively prevent him from playing in the league again and force him into retirement.

We don't have to agree about whether he is ethically right to do it. I'm trying to explain why it's mostly irrelevant to the league because it's not something that will happen very often because players have too much incentive (mostly money and playing pro hockey) to honour their contract, even if they are unhappy.

 

[Loach]

Sending him to the AHL risks leaving the Rangers in limbo for months. He would not have to deal with not reporting until training camp. That would make the Rangers unable to redistribute his cap space, because if he did change his mind and report to the AHL, they would not be able to become cap compliant.

If he eventually did not report at all, they could either suspend him without pay, or terminate his contract.

We're going back and forth. You're acting like there is no gravity to his choice not to report. As if it is some kind of life hack that he is the first NHLer to figure out. There are grave consequences to not reporting. He will either have his contract voided and lose out on 12M in guaranteed NHL salary, or he will be suspended without pay for 2 years with his contract possibly tolled, which unless he changed his mind about reporting, it would effectively prevent him from playing in the league again and force him into retirement.

We don't have to agree about whether he is ethically right to do it. I'm trying to explain why it's mostly irrelevant to the league because it's not something that will happen very often because players have too much incentive (mostly money and playing pro hockey) to honour their contract, even if they are unhappy.

I just find it interesting what options both sides have.

 

[Ice-Tray]

A team could trade for him and a pick for futures, let him no show, suspend him, and then carry on with their pick.

Then Trouba doesn’t get paid, doesn’t count against the cap, and can’t play in the league until his rights are traded, or he decides to show up to play. At that point he’d have to do a conditioning stint in the AHL before ever going to an NHL team again.

He trying to play hardball, and I hope the rangers play too. It reminds me of Yashin. It one thing to use the clauses on your contact to your advantage, but this is a guy using media to leverage trades to teams he can’t stop a trade to. It’s bad optics, and I don’t think it’s something the team should stand for.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Isn't that kinda the whole point of having a NTC?

From what I understood he had a 15 team no trade list and Detroit wasn't one of the 15 teams. The Rangers lined up a deal with Detroit to trade him there and he changed his NTC to include Detroit.

The way it was framed was that he was preventing himself from getting traded more than using that clause to ensure that he only gets traded to destinations that he prefers.

I don't know if that was an accurate assessment of what happened but it came across as a last minute kind of thing.

I don't know the exact details around the CBA and NTCs. I have heard it reported in some situations where a player submits the list of teams they won't get traded to and then can't change that until another set time frame. Something like once per season. I have heard other reports that seem to imply that a player can constantly change their list.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

I rather play Hamonic... Yes that's how bad trouba has gotten

 

[KevinRedkey]

Even if we traded Hamonic and JBD for Trouba at 50%, we'd still be over the cap with a 20-man roster.

That, and he wouldn't report here which would void his contract - and our 6D and 7D would be god knows who. lol

It makes no sense to even discuss Trouba to Ottawa IMO.

 

[BondraTime]

From what I understood he had a 15 team no trade list and Detroit wasn't one of the 15 teams. The Rangers lined up a deal with Detroit to trade him there and he changed his NTC to include Detroit.

The way it was framed was that he was preventing himself from getting traded more than using that clause to ensure that he only gets traded to destinations that he prefers.

I don't know if that was an accurate assessment of what happened but it came across as a last minute kind of thing.

I don't know the exact details around the CBA and NTCs. I have heard it reported in some situations where a player submits the list of teams they won't get traded to and then can't change that until another set time frame. Something like once per season. I have heard other reports that seem to imply that a player can constantly change their list.

Players can’t change a list once submitted, no way for Trouba to add teams other than the ones he had on July 1st/set date of that year.

If he blocked a trade to Detroit it was because they were on his list

 

[Cosmix]

From what I understood he had a 15 team no trade list and Detroit wasn't one of the 15 teams. The Rangers lined up a deal with Detroit to trade him there and he changed his NTC to include Detroit.

The way it was framed was that he was preventing himself from getting traded more than using that clause to ensure that he only gets traded to destinations that he prefers.

I don't know if that was an accurate assessment of what happened but it came across as a last minute kind of thing.

I don't know the exact details around the CBA and NTCs. I have heard it reported in some situations where a player submits the list of teams they won't get traded to and then can't change that until another set time frame. Something like once per season. I have heard other reports that seem to imply that a player can constantly change their list.

I agree. I doubt that the NHL would allow a player to change his list at anytime at his option; teams need certainty for this type of thing.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Nobody will trade for him if he won't report. It's the same as a veto. Players wanted teams to guarantee contracts, but they won't guarantee them? It worked when I signed it, but it doesn't work now? I'm not taking a side here. It just seems fckd.

Seems very cut and dry UNLESS we don’t have the whole story

I’m not sure what the expected returns are for him. Could have been that big. Why don’t think ship him out for future considerations

 

[DrEasy]

Even if we traded Hamonic and JBD for Trouba at 50%, we'd still be over the cap with a 20-man roster.

That, and he wouldn't report here which would void his contract - and our 6D and 7D would be god knows who. lol

It makes no sense to even discuss Trouba to Ottawa IMO.

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We're probably on his NTC list anyway...

If we weren't, it would be a cool technique to make use of our undesirability as a destination: get the Rangers to throw a pick our way to take him off their hands, knowing that he's going to retire anyway and won't affect our cap.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Sending him to the AHL risks leaving the Rangers in limbo for months. He would not have to deal with not reporting until training camp. That would make the Rangers unable to redistribute his cap space, because if he did change his mind and report to the AHL, they would not be able to become cap compliant.

Rangers did it before with Redden, and were cap compliant, it can definitely be done, but not great for the Rangers.

If he decides he wants to play after spending time in the AHL, he’d just have to stay there, and see if they can make room for him, if they can’t, then he’s stuck there until the playoffs.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Rangers did it before with Redden, and were cap compliant, it can definitely be done, but not great for the Rangers.

If he decides he wants to play after spending time in the AHL, he’d just have to stay there, and see if they can make room for him, if they can’t, then he’s stuck there until the playoffs.

The rules were different at the time that the Rangers did it.

Teams used to be able to bury the entire cap hit in the AHL. The NHL closed that loophole.

Even if they intend to bury him, the situation they are in now is that they can't effectively use his 8M of cap until they are able to terminate the contract when he doesn't report at the start of the season or after training camp when he is buried. Whatever the timeline is.

They are in limbo until they resolve this.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The rules were different at the time that the Rangers did it.

Teams used to be able to bury the entire cap hit in the AHL. The NHL closed that loophole.

Even if they intend to bury him, the situation they are in now is that they can't effectively use his 8M of cap until they are able to terminate the contract when he doesn't report at the start of the season or after training camp when he is buried. Whatever the timeline is.

They are in limbo until they resolve this.

If he doesn’t report, then they bring up their number 1 D prospect, with the 1.15 cap space they get from Trouba.

 

[BondraTime]

If he doesn’t report, then they bring up their number 1 D prospect, assuming Othmann, with the 1.15 cap space they get from Trouba.

Othmann is a forward

Not sure who they’d have to come up for Trouba at league minimum, I guess Fitzgerald maybe, he’s 27 though and not really NHL quality. They don’t really have the personnel to call up at D from their pool. Maybe Harpur if he isn’t injured like all last season.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Othmann is a forward

Not sure who they’d have to come up for Trouba at league minimum, I guess Fitzgerald maybe, he’s 27 though and not really NHL quality. They don’t really have the personnel to call up at D from their pool. Maybe Harpur if he isn’t injured like all last season.

Ahh ok is Jones their number one D prospect, or it the 7th D listed on their team?

 

[BondraTime]

Ahh ok is Jones their number one D prospect, or it the 7th D listed on their team?

I think Jones is their #6 this coming year, as Gustoffsen left for Detroit.

They have Ruhweedle (sp) on a 2 way, so he’d likely be the guy, but even then I don’t think they’re too happy with that bottom pairing.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If he doesn’t report, then they bring up their number 1 D prospect, with the 1.15 cap space they get from Trouba.

You're missing the point.

If the plan is to send him to the AHL, even if he is suspended without pay, they are penalized his cap hit because they can't replace him with an equivalent player via trade. His cap being available on paper would be nearly irrelevant because they could not safely spend it in case he came back.

The alternative would be terminating his contract after he does not report. Even if they terminate his contract at the start of the season, it left them in limbo all offseason and they missed out on many acquisition opportunities to replace him.

So it's not as simple as "we'll send him to the AHL and suspend him" because if he is suspended, his cap isn't really available since he could decide to come back. They couldn't go out for example and acquire Ekblad to replace him. (not that they are tied to him, just an example of another top 4D available).

 

[Loach]

You're missing the point.

If the plan is to send him to the AHL, even if he is suspended without pay, they are penalized his cap hit because they can't replace him with an equivalent player via trade. His cap being available on paper would be nearly irrelevant because they could not safely spend it in case he came back.

The alternative would be terminating his contract after he does not report. Even if they terminate his contract at the start of the season, it left them in limbo all offseason and they missed out on many acquisition opportunities to replace him.

So it's not as simple as "we'll send him to the AHL and suspend him" because if he is suspended, his cap isn't really available since he could decide to come back. They couldn't go out for example and acquire Ekblad to replace him. (not that they are tied to him, just an example of another top 4D available).

Can they still buy him out? What would that cost?

 

[Golden_Jet]

You're missing the point.

If the plan is to send him to the AHL, even if he is suspended without pay, they are penalized his cap hit because they can't replace him with an equivalent player via trade. His cap being available on paper would be nearly irrelevant because they could not safely spend it in case he came back.

The alternative would be terminating his contract after he does not report. Even if they terminate his contract at the start of the season, it left them in limbo all offseason and they missed out on many acquisition opportunities to replace him.

So it's not as simple as "we'll send him to the AHL and suspend him" because if he is suspended, his cap isn't really available since he could decide to come back. They couldn't go out for example and acquire Ekblad to replace him. (not that they are tied to him, just an example of another top 4D available).

Well if he decided to come back, he’d have to wallow in the AHL, if the Rangers didn’t have room to call him back up.

Or they buy him out for $2 million a season average cap hit over 4 years.

Can they still buy him out? What would that cost?

2 million a season average over 4 years.
Has $12 million owed over 2 years, so 2/3 of that spread over 4 years

 

[Loach]

Well if he decided to come back, he’d have to wallow in the AHL, if the Rangers didn’t have room to call him back up.

Or they buy him out for $2 million a season average cap hit over 4 years.


2 million a season average over 4 years.
Has $12 million owed over 2 years, so 2/3 of that spread over 4 years

Thanks.

 

[aragorn]

We should not forget that these are human beings with lives & when athletes are traded it upends all of their lives,. Their children are forced to change schools & lose their friends & their wife's life if she has a job that is entrenched loses her job & friends as well, their lives are turned upside down in an instant. Yes, they are millionaires & will survive, but they are also people with their own problems & their own lives outside of hockey & big moves are difficult on everyone associated with the family.

 

[BankStreetParade]

We should not forget that these are human beings with lives & when athletes are traded it upends all of their lives,. Their children are forced to change schools & lose their friends & their wife's life if she has a job that is entrneched loses her job & friends as well, their lives are turned upside down in an instant. Yes, they are millionaires & will survive, but they are also people with their own problems & their own lives outside of hockey & big moves are difficult on everyone associated with the family.

Like people in other industries/professions aren't asked to upend their lives for their jobs all the time...

He's compensated extraordinarily well and this is part of the business he's in. If he doesn't like it he can always retire, I'm sure he can find a way to live off of the ~$65M he's earned throughout his career.

 

[Loach]

We should not forget that these are human beings with lives & when athletes are traded it upends all of their lives,. Their children are forced to change schools & lose their friends & their wife's life if she has a job that is entrneched loses her job & friends as well, their lives are turned upside down in an instant. Yes, they are millionaires & will survive, but they are also people with their own problems & their own lives outside of hockey & big moves are difficult on everyone associated with the family.

I went and checked out the thread on the Rangers board. They closed it because there was no new info and the discusions where going in circles. All the same posts as here pretty much. So how 'bout them Jays? Do they suck or what?