Bratt & J. Hughes or B.Tkachuk & Stutzle?

[bert]

But Vegas and Colorado did getting outhit significantly along the way.

Cup finalists the last 4 years
Panthers +32, oilers -239
Panthers +24, Vegas -131
Avs -79, lightning -9
Lighting -28, canadiens +45

Overall the cup teams have been outhit by a combined 385 hits on route to the finals


Hits given vs hits taken.

The cup final teams from the last 4 years have been outhit by a combined 385 hits on their way to the finals.

ITs because they have the puck all the time. That doesnt mean they arent physical. Does anyone watch the games anymore before getting into a discussion where they think hockey is a statistically dominated sport. There has been two GM's whos primary tool was advanced analytics. One doesnt have a job and ran the Coyotes into the ground the other is the most overated and maybe worst active GM in the NHL.

So in conclusion:

Vegas: not particularly physical: won cup
Colorado: not particuarly physical: won cup
Tampa: average physicality: won 2 cups

That's 4 of the last 5 cups won by teams that were nothing special physically.

Teams that aren't physical can very easily win cups. (12 of the last 17 teams to win the cup got outhit by their opponents in the playoffs)

Watch a hockey game, Vegas isnt physical? hahaha.

Tampa got swept and went out and got a way more physical team and won back to back.

 

[dgibb10]

ITs because they have the puck all the time. That doesnt mean they arent physical. Does anyone watch the games anymore before getting into a discussion where they think hockey is a statistically dominated sport. There has been two GM's whos primary tool was advanced analytics. One doesnt have a job and ran the Coyotes into the ground the other is the most overated and maybe worst active GM in the NHL.


Watch a hockey game, Vegas isnt physical? hahaha.

Tampa got swept and went out and got a way more physical team and won back to back.

No, Vegas was nothing special in terms of physicality.

But when you retroactively look at teams and point out any physical player as the reason for success, you get this delusional loop not based in reality.

Teams don't have "grit" until they win, and then of course they actually had enough "grit" all along.

Tampa won off the backs of Nikita Kucherov and Brayden point lmao. TONS of physicality there. Not

 

[bert]

No, Vegas was nothing special in terms of physicality.

But when you retroactively look at teams and point out any physical player as the reason for success, you get this delusional loop not based in reality.

Teams don't have "grit" until they win, and then of course they actually had enough "grit" all along.

Tampa won off the backs of Nikita Kucherov and Brayden point lmao. TONS of physicality there. Not

Back to the drawing board. You're so lost.

Kucherov makes room for himself and plays with an edge Point brings the puck to the net as hard as anyone and is built like a fire hydrant. Its quite obvious you either dont watch or have no clue what you are looking at.

 

[dgibb10]

Back to the drawing board. You're so lost.

Kucherov makes room for himself and plays with an edge Point brings the puck to the net as hard as anyone and is built like a fire hydrant. Its quite obvious you either dont watch or have no clue what you are looking at.

Lmao.

Now we're claiming Nikita Kucherov is a physical player. Utter delusion.

 

[bert]

Lmao.

Now we're claiming Nikita Kucherov is a physical player. Utter delusion.

Have you seen how he uses his stick? You dont watch just admit it.

 

[dgibb10]

Have you seen how he uses his stick? You dont watch just admit it.

Just curious which current top skill guys are considered "physical"

and how many weeks after a cup win until they retroactively become physical players all along.

 

[Xirik]

Lmao.

Now we're claiming Nikita Kucherov is a physical player. Utter delusion.

Have you seen how he uses his stick? You dont watch just admit it.

Kutcherov Hits people with his stick?

 

[dgibb10]

Kutcherov Hits people with his stick?

If you leave the definition of "physicality" completely arbitrary and claim that any statistic that tries to measure it is fake and inaccurate and physicality can only be determined by watching every minute of every players career, then you can simply claim any player you want is "physical" whenever it suits you (read: has won a stanley cup).

 

[sensfan4lifee]

I'm a Sens fan and this is Hughes and Bratt

 

[Xspyrit]

Hughes + Bratt

2022-23 : 99 + 73 = 172 pts
2023-24 : 74 + 83 = 157 pts

Stutzle + Tkachuk :

2022-23 : 90 + 83 = 173 pts
2023-24 : 70 + 74 = 144 pts

Just in case people think it's not close.

 

[dgibb10]

Hughes + Bratt

2022-23 : 99 + 73 = 172 pts
2023-24 : 74 + 83 = 157 pts

Stutzle + Tkachuk :

2022-23 : 90 + 83 = 173 pts
2023-24 : 70 + 74 = 144 pts

Just in case people think it's not close.

And then you realize bratt and jack have done that in 200 fewer minutes even strength (9 points based on their rates) (and 200 fewer PP minutes (22 extra points for Jack and Bratt based on their rates)

All while being better at preventing chances against than the sens unit.

Replace Jack with Nico and it might be close.

 

[NyQuil]

And then you realize bratt and jack have done that in 200 fewer minutes even strength (9 points based on their rates) (and 200 fewer PP minutes (22 extra points for Jack and Bratt based on their rates)

All while being better at preventing chances against than the sens unit.

Replace Jack with Nico and it might be close.

I find it funny that people make fun of Tkachuk’s hypothetical playoff performances while others cite hypothetical point production from a hypothetically healthy Jack Hughes.

 

[Golden_Jet]

And then you realize bratt and jack have done that in 200 fewer minutes even strength (9 points based on their rates) (and 200 fewer PP minutes (22 extra points for Jack and Bratt based on their rates)

All while being better at preventing chances against than the sens unit.

Replace Jack with Nico and it might be close.

Even strength points in Sens favour, PP points in NJ’s favour.
Replace with Nico, Sens ahead.
Even now it’s 60/40 split with Jack

 

[dgibb10]

I find it funny that people make fun of Tkachuk’s hypothetical playoff performances while others cite hypothetical point production from a hypothetically healthy Jack Hughes.

The PP minutes have basically nothing to do with health, Ottawa just has had 589 PP opportunities over the last 2 years compared to 469 for NJD

And in case you are gonna talk about drawing PPs. Jack and Nico have the best differential of the 5 players.

Tkachuk and Stutzle draw more, but they also like to send ottawa's 75% PK on the ice a lot more, which isn't exactly ideal

 

[dgibb10]

Even strength points in Sens favour, PP points in NJ’s favour.
Replace with Nico, Sens ahead.
Even now it’s 60/40 split with Jack

Yeah, Jack and Bratt are lightyears ahead as PP weapons.

Also EV scoring rates favour NJD

PP scoring rates aren't even close to Jack

EV on ice metrics again favour NJD pretty easily (Stutzle is consistently the weak link)

Subbing in Nico makes the PP dominance of NJD less pronounced, at which point you're asking:

Hischier's PK ability and defense vs Tkachuk physicality

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yeah, Jack and Bratt are lightyears ahead as PP weapons.

Also EV scoring rates favour NJD
View attachment 900801
PP scoring rates aren't even close to Jack
View attachment 900802
EV on ice metrics again favour NJD pretty easily (Stutzle is consistently the weak link)
View attachment 900799

Subbing in Nico makes the PP dominance of NJD less pronounced, at which point you're asking:

Hischier's PK ability and defense vs Tkachuk physicality

Ya hopefully for you guys, Hughes injury proneness, is behind him.

 

[dgibb10]

Ya hopefully for you guys, Hughes injury proneness, is behind him.

And despite these injury troubles, he has significantly more points than both of Tkachuk or Stutzle over the last 2 years.

But hey, maybe if Ottawa can figure out a way to clone Stutzle and Tkachuk, then it would matchup with NJDs top 4 forwards

 

[Fatass]

I’ll take the best player of the four, Jack Hughes.

 

[Golden_Jet]

And despite these injury troubles, he has significantly more points than both of Tkachuk or Stutzle over the last 2 years.

But hey, maybe if Ottawa can figure out a way to clone Stutzle and Tkachuk, then it would matchup with NJDs top 4 forwards

significantly more

 

[Baksfamous112]

I take the sens duo and it didn’t take long to get to that conclusion either

 

[Golden_Jet]

I take the sens duo and it didn’t take long to get to that conclusion either

Having a discussion with the 2 NJ posters that are fully of hyperbole, and ya buts is hilarious.

 

[bert]

Just curious which current top skill guys are considered "physical"

and how many weeks after a cup win until they retroactively become physical players all along.

Ive been watching Kucherov since he was playing in Rouyn. He has an edge, he takes penalties at times laying the lumber. He is also a fairly thick player. Again its ok to admit you havent really watched him. He also goes to the dirty areas to score some guys are willing to do it some guys arent.

And despite these injury troubles, he has significantly more points than both of Tkachuk or Stutzle over the last 2 years.

But hey, maybe if Ottawa can figure out a way to clone Stutzle and Tkachuk, then it would matchup with NJDs top 4 forwards

For a stat guy you cant even stat.

 

[dgibb10]

Having a discussion with the 2 NJ posters that are fully of hyperbole, and ya buts is hilarious.

NJD duo:
-Made the playoffs and won a round
-Better PP weapons
-Better 5v5 weapons
-Better overall production
-Better rate production
-Better penalty differential
-Better possession metrics
-Better expected on ice goal results
-better actual on ice goal results

Ottawa duo:
#HITZ

 

[bert]

NJD duo:
-Made the playoffs and won a round
-Better PP weapons
-Better 5v5 weapons
-Better overall production
-Better rate production
-Better penalty differential
-Better possession metrics
-Better expected on ice goal results
-better actual on ice goal results

Ottawa duo:
#HITZ

Hughes is the best player but no one in their right mind takes Bratt over Tkachuk or Stutzle.

 

[dgibb10]

Wow, that 1 play surely defines a players entire career.

Surely bratt didn't dominate while on the ice that entire series.

Also, I went to find a playoff clip of Tkachuk and Stutzle and for some reason couldn't find anything. Weird.

You seem to have formed the entire basis of your opinion on Bratt from 1 singular play.