"Further within" would suggest Hughes has ever been in the Matthews/Draisaitl tier of players...
... That's not to say he can't get there, but he's just not at that level yet.
Bratt & J. Hughes or B.Tkachuk & Stutzle?
- Thread starter SeanMoneyHands
- Start date
"Further within" would suggest Hughes has ever been in the Matthews/Draisaitl tier of players...
... That's not to say he can't get there, but he's just not at that level yet.
- Apr 27, 2005
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I think using team based accomplishments to call a player anything is short sighted.
All we know is that Brady is a very productive hockey player who plays a competitive, hard nosed style that should help teams win hockey games.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Actually he scored as many points as Brady Tkachuk, the guy with the overrated physicality.
- Jul 28, 2011
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Jack Hughes and whoever you add.
- Signed NYR fan.
Also, I take Brady over Tim, so to me it's Jack - Brady, and then Brat - Tim, which still doesn't matter because Jack is the best one here.
- Signed NYR fan.
Also, I take Brady over Tim, so to me it's Jack - Brady, and then Brat - Tim, which still doesn't matter because Jack is the best one here.
bert
Registered User
Two tiny players. One with the worst playoff performance in years. Lol and they are winning. Hf boards where no one has ever played a physical sport in their life.
Surely these tiny players lost to the big bad rangers in those playoffs?
Hughes is the best player but I honestly think I'd value the gap between Tkachuk/Bratt more than the one between Hughes/Stutzle.
Not sure how many more times we need to see that the physical teams dominate in the playoffs.
Not sure how many more times we need to see that the physical teams dominate in the playoffs.
The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
Jack Hughes is clearly the dealbreaker here, but he’s only played more than 70 games once in his career.
2 of the last 3 cup winners finished dead last in playoff hit differential.
This is cyclical imo. Penguins, Blackhawks were two teams that dominated by relying on skill way more than physicality.
- Apr 27, 2005
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When he's been healthy, he's absolutely shown to be that tier of player in the last 2 years.
Before his shoulder injury in early February 2023, he was:
1st in ES goals
1st in ES points among forwards
3rd in goals (2nd among centers)
7th in points (4th among centers)
Through those 50 games, he was pacing for 57 goals and 110 points. Then he hurt his shoulder, and returned only 2 weeks later, still obviously not near 100%. By the 6 week point, he had seemingly recovered, putting up another 18 points in his last 11 games.
At the start of last season, he was leading the league in scoring through 10 games before again getting injured. Unfortunately, he again returned early and was struggling the rest of the season with his injury, to the point where he was pulled from the roster for nearly the full month of January, and then again pulled for surgery the moment the Devils were effectively eliminated from the playoffs.
His pre-injury numbers from the last 2 seasons:
60gp 40 goals 87 points
That's a 55 goal, 119 point pace without the benefit of a McDavid or Marner.
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
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how are you determining hit differential
Florida 300 more hits than Edmonton
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But Vegas and Colorado did getting outhit significantly along the way.
Cup finalists the last 4 years
Panthers +32, oilers -239
Panthers +24, Vegas -131
Avs -79, lightning -9
Lighting -28, canadiens +45
Overall the cup teams have been outhit by a combined 385 hits on route to the finals
Hits given vs hits taken.
The cup final teams from the last 4 years have been outhit by a combined 385 hits on their way to the finals.
yes, and edmonton made it to within 1 game of winning the finals despite taking 239 more hits than they gave.
in fact, just 5 of the last 17 cup winners have thrown more hits than they have taken in the playoffs.
The rest won the cup despite getting beat in physicality.
- Apr 27, 2005
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I agree with your point in general, but I think you need to take into account that teams that have the puck more tend to take more hits. Adjusting for possession would make your point stronger.
Jack makes this one simply not close.
Replace him with nico for a better debate
I 100% agree, teams that dominate possession take less hits. Which is why teams that dominate possession often do not need to be physically punishing to win
- Oct 26, 2019
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To me Jack is too good of a player to not pick him. I don't have a strong opinion of Bratt, so just looking at stats for him, but definitely going with the NJ pair. I have always felt Brady played hard and the right way but was ultimately overrated.
Right... It was 7 years ago. STL was physical as f***. Tampa got bounced the year they were a favorite and had to add grit before they could come back and go back to back. Vegas wasn't the most physical team and certainly wasn't more physical than Florida, but feasted due to Florida being beaten down by their own physicality. And then... Well, there was Florida.
Colorado the only one of the last 6 Cup winners that really just dominated because they were more skilled than any other team. You could argue Tampa, but Tampa, once again, failed until they added some physicality.
The general trend has been that the more physical teams do well.
So in conclusion:
Vegas: not particularly physical: won cup
Colorado: not particuarly physical: won cup
Tampa: average physicality: won 2 cups
That's 4 of the last 5 cups won by teams that were nothing special physically.
Teams that aren't physical can very easily win cups. (12 of the last 17 teams to win the cup got outhit by their opponents in the playoffs)
