Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[aragorn]

That goal doesnt really move the needle much for me on JBDs offensive abilities. But having said that, I do still think he's got the potential to become a solid #5-6 dman one day. Maybe even more if he could just add on a bit more weight, and get a little bit stronger, and gets put in the right situation. I honestly see a lot of DeMelo in his game, who was also a fringe NHLer when he came to Ottawa.

Hes got good fundamentals, and while he plays a very unnoticeable brand of hockey, hes also able to eat minutes and not get noticed out there in a bad or good way - which is a net positive in reality.

JBD believe it or not led the Sens in blocked shots, I like your compraison to DeMello, but I think he could be even better., maybe even as good as McDonagh He's 24 yrs old & 190 lbs which I expect he will get more muscular with time & experience. While I don't expect huge offensive improvement I expect some, but he will mostly play a complimentary role for a player like Sanderson as Zub does.

 

[TheNewEra]

How much cap space do the Sens still have left?

Could they still trade for Trouba? It was reported before that the Rangers were willing to retain to drop his cap hit to $5.5 m. Could we trade JBD and a pick for Trouba or would we need to get rid of Hamonic to make the cap work?

Assuming of course that Trouba would be willing to accept a trade to the Sens a d core of this looks pretty good:
Sanderson-Zub
Chabot-Jensen
Kleven-Trouba

I rather play Hamonic... Yes that's how bad trouba has gotten

 

[Cosmix]

A player who got a 2-way contract is a “top” player now.

In the AHL!

 

[Cosmix]

About 3 1/2 million with 11F and 7D.

To get Trouba and pay him $5.5M AAV, we would need to trade one or two players to create the cap room.

Trouba would definitely add much-needed toughness but it seems that NYR want to get rid of him because he has regressed to a 3rd pair D level.

 

[aragorn]

My guess is that Staois is likely done for the summer, but it wouldn't surprise me if they hand out a couple of PTO's for training camp to a couple of veterans at league minimum who they could waive & place in the AHL, if needed. Maybe one at forward & maybe one on D especially if Norris isn't ready to start the season.

James Van Reimsdyke LW & Kevin Shattenkirk RD - guys with long names on their jerseys.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Good for Trouba. f*** the (NHL player movement) system. Stand up to the man.

The only reason other players don't do this, is because they cant. He got a front-loaded contract, so he's already been paid 80 percent of his contract.

The only possible thing the Rangers could do would be to put him on waivers and let San Jose claim him. If they were going to do that, they would have done that by now. It's possible that he passes through waivers completely because very few teams now have cap space to take him, and it seems like an unproductive distraction and also stupid to help New York for free.

The other thing is that if he passes through waivers and doesn't report to the AHL, that doesn't help New York. If they go out and spend his cap space on a different player, he could turn around the next day and say "Hartford sounds nice!". Then they are over the cap and have to trade someone from a position of weakness.

If he is genuinely willing to not report and risk losing out on his salary, or having his contract tolled, then he has them by the balls.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If they offered a 1-way deal they could have had him. But no team offered him a 1-way deal as he is now a marginal player.

You think there is a "sweepstakes" for a player who signed a 2-way deal?

I think it was a joke.

But also we need a marginal guy

Good for Trouba. f*** the (NHL player movement) system. Stand up to the man.

The only reason other players don't do this, is because they cant. He got a front-loaded contract, so he's already been paid 80 percent of his contract.

The only possible thing the Rangers could do would be to put him on waivers and let San Jose claim him. If they were going to do that, they would have done that by now. It's possible that he passes through waivers completely because very few teams now have cap space to take him, and it seems like an unproductive distraction and also stupid to help New York for free.

The other thing is that if he passes through waivers and doesn't report to the AHL, that doesn't help New York. If they go out and spend his cap space on a different player, he could turn around the next day and say "Hartford sounds nice!". Then they are over the cap and have to trade someone from a position of weakness.

If he is genuinely willing to not report and risk losing out on his salary, or having his contract tolled, then he has them by the balls.

lol why didn’t he negotiate a full NMC? Thats what he should have done and he knows that and regrets it. Alledgedly refusing to show up ANYWHERE he’s traded to.

I don’t know how badly I want to f*** with Dolan honestly. Yoruba may find out some things the hard way

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I think it was a joke.

But also we need a marginal guy


lol why didn’t he negotiate a full NMC? Thats what he should have done and he knows that and regrets it. Alledgedly refusing to show up ANYWHERE he’s traded to.

I don’t know how badly I want to f*** with Dolan honestly. Yoruba may find out some things the hard way

He negotiated a NMC that ended this season. He has 2 years of term left.

NHL players aren't obligated to play for any team. I think that's what people forget. This rarely becomes a point of leverage because usually remaining in the league and receiving the remainder of their guaranteed money is enough incentive to report.

Patrik Berglund might be the most notorious example of this. He left about 10 million dollars in salary on the table when he refused to report to Buffalo. Although, after taxes and escrow, it might be closer to 5 million in real dollars. He played a few more years in Sweden, so maybe he recouped some of that, but still, that's a lot of money to walk away from which is why it usually doesn't happen.

I understand Rangers fans being annoyed because they want their team to be at the greatest competitive advantage it can be at. I don't understand people treating players like cattle. If he wants to his family to stay in New York more than he wants a few million more dollars or to continue playing in the NHL, then good for him.

You're right that if he felt this strongly at the time about being in New York, negotiating a full NMC for all 7 years of his contract (not just 5) might have avoided this, even if he took less money.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He negotiated a NMC that ended this season. He has 2 years of term left.

NHL players aren't obligated to play for any team. I think that's what people forget. This rarely becomes a point of leverage because usually remaining in the league and receiving the remainder of their guaranteed money is enough incentive to report.

Patrik Berglund might be the most notorious example of this. He left about 10 million dollars in salary on the table when he refused to report to Buffalo. Although, after taxes and escrow, it might be closer to 5 million in real dollars. He played a few more years in Sweden, so maybe he recouped some of that, but still, that's a lot of money to walk away from which is why it usually doesn't happen.

I understand Rangers fans being annoyed because they want their team to be at the greatest competitive advantage it can be at. I don't understand people treating players like cattle. If he wants to his family to stay in New York more than he wants a few million more dollars or to continue playing in the NHL, then good for him.

You're right that if he felt this strongly at the time about being in New York, negotiating a full NMC for all 7 years of his contract (not just 5) might have avoided this, even if he took less money.

Yeah it’s over now.

You’re right they’re not obligated. So maybe they trade him to a team not on the NMC and he can go overseas and play or retire

He negotiated the contract fair and square.

I’m not sure what kinda return they’re looking for but if trouba feels that strongly (he probably doesn’t) then maybe he just says f*** it. Not playing I’ll live in New York near my wife and retire early.

At this point what else is there? He doesn’t want to go ANYWHERE else. Except maybe islanders or New Jersey? It’s either New York keeps him or he retires

 

[The Expert]

I also heard some speculation that he added Detroit to his NTC list just to veto the trade.

Isn't that kinda the whole point of having a NTC?

 

[Loach]

He negotiated a NMC that ended this season. He has 2 years of term left.

NHL players aren't obligated to play for any team. I think that's what people forget. This rarely becomes a point of leverage because usually remaining in the league and receiving the remainder of their guaranteed money is enough incentive to report.

Patrik Berglund might be the most notorious example of this. He left about 10 million dollars in salary on the table when he refused to report to Buffalo. Although, after taxes and escrow, it might be closer to 5 million in real dollars. He played a few more years in Sweden, so maybe he recouped some of that, but still, that's a lot of money to walk away from which is why it usually doesn't happen.

I understand Rangers fans being annoyed because they want their team to be at the greatest competitive advantage it can be at. I don't understand people treating players like cattle. If he wants to his family to stay in New York more than he wants a few million more dollars or to continue playing in the NHL, then good for him.

You're right that if he felt this strongly at the time about being in New York, negotiating a full NMC for all 7 years of his contract (not just 5) might have avoided this, even if he took less money.

If he has 15 teams on his no trade list and then won't show up if he is traded to a team that is not on his list...is that a breach of contract? Could the contract be terminated or he be suspended without pay?

 

[Micklebot]

If he has 15 teams on his no trade list and then won't show up if he is traded to a team that is not on his list...is that a breach of contract? Could the contract be terminated or he be suspended without pay?

If he doesn't show up to the team he is traded to it would be a breach and his contract terminated, but saying you won't report is just talk,

 

[Loach]

If he doesn't show up to the team he is traded to it would be a breach and his contract terminated, but saying you won't report is just talk,

If you can't trade him, because of the "talk", is that not a form of breach?

 

[BondraTime]

If you can't trade him, because of the "talk", is that not a form of breach?

No different than the trade for Gronkowski being cancelled because he said if they traded him to Detroit he was going to retire.

If the player says he’s going to retire, good on him, nothing the league can do. Whether it’s just a ploy would only be found out if the team would actually still trade for him, which is almost a certainty teams wouldn’t.

 

[Loach]

No different than the trade for Gronkowski being cancelled because he said if they traded him to Detroit he was going to retire.

If the player says he’s going to retire, good on him, nothing the league can do. Whether it’s just a ploy would only be found out if the team would actually still trade for him, which is almost a certainty teams wouldn’t.

So what can the Rangers do than? A player won't honour his contract. Trade him for futures and Trouba can retire? No team would take him for free if he won't report. They have to know what is going with thier payroll. This is fckd. The players are in for an interesting CBA when it comes up.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If he has 15 teams on his no trade list and then won't show up if he is traded to a team that is not on his list...is that a breach of contract? Could the contract be terminated or he be suspended without pay?

If I recall, his contract can either be tolled or terminated. It is up to the team.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If he doesn't show up to the team he is traded to it would be a breach and his contract terminated, but saying you won't report is just talk,

It is rare, but players have retired before because they were traded to a team they didn't want to go to, or assigned to the AHL.

It is entirely possible that he genuinely wouldn't report to a different team.

 

[Micklebot]

It is rare, but players have retired before because they were traded to a team they didn't want to go to, or assigned to the AHL.

It is entirely possible that he genuinely wouldn't report to a different team.

I imagine if he doesn't report, the trade would get cancelled and his contract voided

 

[Loach]

If I recall, his contract can either be tolled or terminated. It is up to the team.

Tolled?

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

So what can the Rangers do than? A player won't honour his contract. Trade him for futures and Trouba can retire? No team would take him for free if he won't report. They have to know what is going with thier payroll. This is fckd. The players are in for an interesting CBA when it comes up.

The Rangers only realistic option is to attach a draft pick to him and send him to one of the few teams operating below the cap to the point that they don't have to worry about the competitive disadvantage of Trouba nullifying 6M of cap space that they cannot use because if they use it and he decides to report later, they will not be cap compliant and may not have an easy way to become cap compliant.

A can't see a team taking him without a sweetener because they are helping the Rangers by taking him.

All he is doing is using his leverage to incentivize NYR not to trade him. He isn't doing anything that is in violation of the CBA. It's his right not to be an NHL player if he doesn't want to be one, but if he rejoins the league he is obligated to honour any contractual obligations he has. This usually isn't a problem because it's uncommon for a player to be willing to leave money on the table and end their career early over not wanting to move their family.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I imagine if he doesn't report, the trade would get cancelled and his contract voided

The trade would not get cancelled. That's the point. That's why this works for Trouba to disincentivize a team to trade for him.

You can't make a trade conditional on a player reporting. You can make a pick in a trade conditional on a player playing X amount of games. Which is something that might happen in a Trouba trade if teams believe he won't report. With that said, I don't even think a team does that because it's pointless and just helps the Rangers for nothing.

People are just butthurt because they think players are cattle.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a ton of sympathy for multi-millionaires who play children's games, but it's astounding to me that people can't wrap their head around the idea that a person has a right not to play in the NHL, and the NHL contract is only relevant insofar as determining where the player plays in the league. Trouba still has the right to quit his job if he doesn't want it, he just can't go and play for a different NHL team. The only reason players don't do this is because they are owed lots of guaranteed money.

 

[Big Muddy]

That goal doesnt really move the needle much for me on JBDs offensive abilities. But having said that, I do still think he's got the potential to become a solid #5-6 dman one day. Maybe even more if he could just add on a bit more weight, and get a little bit stronger, and gets put in the right situation. I honestly see a lot of DeMelo in his game, who was also a fringe NHLer when he came to Ottawa.

Hes got good fundamentals, and while he plays a very unnoticeable brand of hockey, hes also able to eat minutes and not get noticed out there in a bad or good way - which is a net positive in reality.

Not really. Maybe some Senator fans didn’t know much about because he played in the Pacific time zone in San Jose. He played 63 games and got 20 assists the year before he came to Ottawa. He even had a little PP time that year.

 

[Loach]

The trade would not get cancelled. That's the point. That's why this works for Trouba to disincentivize a team to trade for him.

You can't make a trade conditional on a player reporting. You can make a pick in a trade conditional on a player playing X amount of games. Which is something that might happen in a Trouba trade if teams believe he won't report. With that said, I don't even think a team does that because it's pointless and just helps the Rangers for nothing.

People are just butthurt because they think players are cattle.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a ton of sympathy for multi-millionaires who play children's games, but it's astounding to me that people can't wrap their head around the idea that a person has a right not to play in the NHL, and the NHL contract is only relevant insofar as determining where the player plays in the league. Trouba still has the right to quit his job if he doesn't want it, he just can't go and play for a different NHL team. The only reason players don't do this is because they are owed lots of guaranteed money.

It's not about players being cattle here though. If a team isn't on his no trade list he can't just say No. He signed a contract. If he says No than the contract should be voided or he retires. Than he can see who wants him at league minimum.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

It's not about players being cattle here though. If a team isn't on his no trade list he can't just say No. He signed a contract. If he says No than the contract should be voided or he retires. Than he can see who wants him at league minimum.

Nobody is suggesting he can veto a trade. He can't do that. That is why he won't report.

Trouba not reporting doesn't veto a trade. That is why teams won't trade for him.

If he does not report, the team that holds his rights at the time can handle his contract within the framework allowable in the CBA. I believe the main options are suspending him without pay with the option to toll the contract or burn the year, or terminating the contract entirely.

This doesn't happen often because even if a player doesn't like where they go, they have incentive to report ($$$). Additionally, teams usually do their homework and sometimes avoid acquiring players with personal situations that would preclude them from being happy in their organization. CBJ apparently backed off of Chychrun 2 years ago because they got word that he wouldn't be happy with a trade there.

 

[Loach]

Nobody is suggesting he can veto a trade. He can't do that. That is why he won't report.

Trouba not reporting doesn't veto a trade. That is why teams won't trade for him.

If he does not report, the team that holds his rights at the time can handle his contract within the framework allowable in the CBA. I believe the main options are suspending him without pay with the option to toll the contract or burn the year, or terminating the contract entirely.

This doesn't happen often because even if a player doesn't like where they go, they have incentive to report ($$$). Additionally, teams usually do their homework and sometimes avoid acquiring players with personal situations that would preclude them from being happy in their organization. CBJ apparently backed off of Chychrun 2 years ago because they got word that he wouldn't be happy with a trade there.

Nobody will trade for him if he won't report. It's the same as a veto. Players wanted teams to guarantee contracts, but they won't guarantee them? It worked when I signed it, but it doesn't work now? I'm not taking a side here. It just seems fckd.