Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[PlayersLtd]

The problem was never DJ. Dorion never surrounded the kids with quality veterans to show them how to be professionals and leaders.

Wha? Sure, you can argue that the lack of vets didn't help but DJ hammered complacency into this team. He taught one thing and that was hard work. He hammered away at that and only that until the cows came home without turning the vice on any other result.

DJ should be commended for focusing on work ethic because that is a fundamental piece but his most glaring flaw was not being able to teach anything else on top of that. An adequate coach would have put building blocks in place over time. He never added to the recipe and the nuances, needless to say, matter. This is why there was rarely any criticism in his post game scrums, they were generally executing the one and only thing he was asking and there was nothing else to hold them accountable for.

If you could turn back the clock and change one thing in, say, 2021 would it be adding a couple vets or moving on from a coach who's system was appearing to be more and more non-existent?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It was a group effort.

Owner limited resources and opportunities. GM struggled within those bounds and spent too many resources on not enough on ice impact and/or contract certainty. DJ got stale and clearly not suited for the next step To turn the corner. Team lacked capable veterans throughout and was often raised as an issue that would be felt now more than ever. Sprinkle in unreliable goaltending, being paid well at that.

 

[DrEasy]

Idk if that's entirely fair, Hainsey, Holden, Stepan, and Gudbranson are all professionals and leaders, they were just all past their best before date on ice. The were brought in specially to show the kids how to be professional and leader.

The issue we have is Dorion built a team around too many of the same pieces, we didn't need Chychrun with Chabot and Sanderson, we needed a guy more like Marino, we didn't need a guy like tank, or DBC up front when we had Batherson Stützle and Giroux, we needed more of a physical two way guy. Someone that can shadow the top players in the league.

It looks to me like Dorion added who he could, with no regard to what they could bring. Tarasenko is available? Get him! Chychrun is happy to come to Ottawa? Trade for him! There was no plan.

 

[scout20]

Josh Norris to AVS for Ross Colton , Josh Manson & 2nd rd pick

 

[GCK]

Wha? Sure, you can argue that the lack of vets didn't help but DJ hammered complacency into this team. He taught one thing and that was hard work. He hammered away at that and only that until the cows came home without turning the vice on any other result.

DJ should be commended for focusing on work ethic because that is a fundamental piece but his most glaring flaw was not being able to teach anything else on top of that. An adequate coach would have put building blocks in place over time. He never added to the recipe and the nuances, needless to say, matter. This is why there was rarely any criticism in his post game scrums, they were generally executing the one and only thing he was asking and there was nothing else to hold them accountable for.

If you could turn back the clock and change one thing in, say, 2021 would it be adding a couple vets or moving on from a coach who's system was appearing to be more and more non-existent?

I’d turn it back to 2019 and keep Mark Stone and Pageau and add Veteran D. It’s a Melnyk/Dorion issue.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I’d turn it back to 2019 and keep Mark Stone and Pageau and add Veteran D. It’s a Melnyk/Dorion issue.

Or at least Pageau and bring in another quality vet or two .. Stone was leaving imo. Dorion provided these guys with zero insulation. Even keeping Boro around would have been good for the room. A coach that stressed two way play would likely have helped.. We may not have seen the accelerated offensive game that the young guys seem to thrive on.

 

[scout20]

Or at least Pageau and bring in another quality vet or two .. Stone was leaving imo. Dorion provided these guys with zero insulation. Even keeping Boro around would have been good for the room. A coach that stressed two way play would likely have helped.. We may not have seen the accelerated offensive game that the young guys seem to thrive on.

If we kept Pageau we would not have Ridly Greig...

 

[Cosmix]

What type of coach do you think we need to get this team to play better?

 

[JD1]

It's hard to say who to keep and who not. I agree Stone was moving. Pageau? Idk. That was a good trade.

I think a healthy year from Stepan would have been helpful. But he was gone after 15 games or whatever it was.

We were a small market small budget team. In a league where a lot of guys have no trade clauses and don't want to come here.

It's easy to say we should have signed this guy or that, or even something like a vet that still has 3 good years left. But when was the last time a vet with 3 good years left signed here?

At some point this is a you take what you can get kinda market, not a choose who you want place.

 

[TheNewEra]

Quality veterans that can still play ***

That is the biggest thing

The problem was also DJ because he never held them accountable or to a higher standard, he also never taught them how to defend at the NHL level, he let them instill a ton of bad habits that Jacques is finding difficult to help get rid off.

Exactly. Learning defense in year 6 would always take a long time

 

[dumbdick]

But when was the last time a vet with 3 good years left signed here?

Giroux? Tank? Macarthur? Gonchar? Kovalev? Dadonov?

Like what is the right amount? I agree that a lot of these vet signings turn into collosal boat anchors. I'm not sure attracting late career guys in a recipe for success, unless you're a contender and they're coming on a discount or sunset contract.

I'd rather target guys like mittelstadt, ceci, lazar, bogosians, ryan murrays, niedereieters, etc.

Guys that a team wants to ditch due to underperforming expectations. Take former first rounders that are languishing and grab them with substantially lower expectations.

Often these guys have the tools just need more time to round out and figure out the league.

Brann would be a good target if he wasnt already on our squad.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If we kept Pageau we would not have Ridly Greig...

We would not have that pick 28OA. Where we could have replaced Greig in 2021,2022,2023 by hanging on to picks and not pretending we were a player away from doing anything. I like Greig as much as anyone. It would not be crazy to think we could not have moved up from 33OA or Greig would drop there or we take Peterka is all else fails. The point is the Sens through the rebuild lacked the type of quality vet Pageau represents and we are surmising that keeping or adding quality vets during the rebuild would have helped insulate the young kids, and that would have possibly helped them with some of the things the still lack now.

 

[Micklebot]

Giroux? Tank? Macarthur? Gonchar? Kovalev? Dadonov?

Like what is the right amount? A lot of these vet signings turn into collosal boat anchors. I'm not sure attracting late career guys in a recipe for success.

Kovelev didn't have three good years left, neither did Dadonov though he was young enough that it was fair to expect him to.

 

[JD1]

Giroux? Tank? Macarthur? Gonchar? Kovalev? Dadonov?

Like what is the right amount? A lot of these vet signings turn into collosal boat anchors. I'm not sure attracting late career guys in a recipe for success.

Giroux yes.

Tank. Signed for one year. Might not have 3 good years left. Think he signed here trying to rebuild his resume

Kovalev and Gonchar were near the end. Gonchar was surprisingly good here given his age.

Dandanov ya I'd agree with that one. Unfortunately didn't work out. That's without mentioning the lost 1st

That's why I said a vet with 3 good years left. I'm thinking more a guy that's 28 or 29, not a guy 33+ looking to hang on

 

[DrEasy]

What we didn't do under Dorion was take bad contracts out of other teams' hands and get a pick or something by doing so. There were years where we were struggling to stay over the salary floor, and it seems to me that was the way to do it.

Those bad contracts often belonged to veterans who could have provided the leadership we wanted.

 

[GCK]

We would not have that pick 28OA. Where we could have replaced Greig was in 2021,2022,2023 by hanging on to picks and not pretending we were a player away from doing anything. I like Greig as much as anyone. It would not be crazy to think we could not have moved up from 33OA or Greig would drop there or we take Peterka is all else fails. The point is the Sens through the rebuild lacked the type of quality vet Pageau represents

And Stone. For full transparency, I was totally on board with trading Pageau but now in hindsight I see that not supporting our kids has set them back a lot. It’s not too late to do a quick reboot, Stu/Sanderson/Brady can still be groomed properly and it’s obvious the new management sees the need to add some vets.

 

[scout20]

And Stone. For full transparency, I was totally on board with trading Pageau but now in hindsight I see that not supporting our kids has set them back a lot. It’s not too late to do a quick reboot, Stu/Sanderson/Brady can still be groomed properly and it’s obvious the new management sees the need to add some vets.

The Sens Remind me a little bit of the Edmonton Oilers when they tried winning with mostly young players like Hall, Nugent-Hopkins,Eberle, Yakupov, Ganger,Paajarvi &Schultz

 

[dumbdick]

We should go target some prospects off the cap teams who have some guys who are logjammed behind stacked rosters.

Non first round picks that are progressing well but they're #3-6 in the prospect depth chart of a system that doesn't really have room to promote guys.

 

[Micklebot]

The Sens Remind me a little bit of the Edmonton Oilers when they tried winning with mostly young players like Hall, Nugent-Hopkins,Eberle, Yakupov, Ganger,Paajarvi &Schultz

Chicago did the same thing and won multiple cups, their average age was 26.03 the first year they won the cup, we are on average 26.23. they had Hossa (32) Campbell (31) and Sharp (29) we have Giroux (36), Tarasenko (32) and idk...Hamonic?(33)

Edmonton's problem is they only had forward talent, nothing of not on the backend, Petry and Schultz were their top D.

You can have a young team so long as you have the right makeup and good vets that can support the kids. Giroux is a good start, Tank isn't bad but idk if he's the right fit, but we need better than Hamonic.

 

[Cosmix]

It looks to me like Dorion added who he could, with no regard to what they could bring. Tarasenko is available? Get him! Chychrun is happy to come to Ottawa? Trade for him! There was no plan.

There were multiple plans!

 

[HF Reader]

We would not have that pick 28OA. Where we could have replaced Greig in 2021,2022,2023 by hanging on to picks and not pretending we were a player away from doing anything. I like Greig as much as anyone. It would not be crazy to think we could not have moved up from 33OA or Greig would drop there or we take Peterka is all else fails. The point is the Sens through the rebuild lacked the type of quality vet Pageau represents and we are surmising that keeping or adding quality vets during the rebuild would have helped insulate the young kids, and that would have possibly helped them with some of the things the still lack now.

What is surprising is that Dorion said that Pageau was his favourite player after they drafted him, so you'd think Dorion understood the value of that type of player.

 

[Bileur]

Holden 2 years - 130+ games is one veteran
Hainsey 1 year - 64 games
Gudbranson 1 year - 36 games
Stepan 1 year - 20 games

I’m referring to guys that are put around the kids and are with them for 3-4 years and can still play.

It really stunted the development of the core kids IMO.

Gudbranson has played 196 games since leaving and been pretty decent in a role pretty identical to what we’re looking for. Part of the problem with him was that DJ didn’t know how to use him properly and maximize his skill set.

Not entirely DJ’s fault because he didn’t have many options but he also couldn’t adjust to different player needs.

 

[TheNewEra]

This is going to be a really stupid trade

 

[RAFI BOMB]

From what is being reported, the Sens are looking to add veteran players.

I wonder if a bigger trade could be had to get multiple pieces from one team. For example if the Sens wanted to get a forward and a d man from one team:

Calgary Flames: Nazem Kadri C, Blake Coleman LW/RW, Mackenzie Weegar LD/RD, Chris Tanev RD
St Louis Blues: Brayden Schenn C, Pavel Buchnevich LW/C/RW, Colton Parayko RD, Torey Krug LD
Dallas Stars: Jamie Benn LW/C, Ryan Suter LD
Columbus Blue Jackets: Boone Jenner C/LW, Erik Gudbranson RD

For cheaper additions, Staios played with Kyle Okposo and Matt Martin in the final year of his contract. They could be options.

Other forwards could include TJ Oshie, Marcus Foligno, Anders Lee, Scott Laughton, Pat Maroon, Cal Clutterbuck and Zemgus Girgensons

 

[Micklebot]

For cheaper additions, Staios played with Kyle Okposo and Matt Martin in the final year of his contract. They could be options.

God I hope Staois isn't making trade decisions based on who he's played with...