Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I just hope they don't hold who is Kleven's adopted father against him.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Martin and Alfredsson are guys who pride themselves on their defence first approach.

Like it's not a + that a team or player play good d, it's a general requirement for them.

And we have guys in the core, who wear letters, who don't even consider playing d as their job description!

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

I wonder when we'll start hearing rumblings about Chychrun and contract negotiations.

Is he wanting to stay here?
Is ownership ready to add yet another long-term, high AAV contract, amid this disaster of a season?

If you can't sign him by the deadline, I think you have to move him. At 4.6M AAV this year and next, he'd be very attractive to a team in the middle of their window, like Vegas or Dallas. And if you were willing to retain some? You'd get an even better price.

Besides, we need more balance on D (having all of Sanderson, Chabot and Chychrun is probably not a recipe for success).

I'd love to get Kaeden Korczak out of Vegas alongside a pick or two. Big, rangy, RD who's a defence first guy.

 

[GCK]

Everyday it becomes more uncomfortably obvious that this core is rotten together. That the leadership is trash.

It's only Stutzle and Sanderson as untouchables.

The veteran leadership group is Hamonic and Giroux. We need 3 more vets who have been around and we desperately need more size.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I wonder when we'll start hearing rumblings about Chychrun and contract negotiations.

Is he wanting to stay here?
Is ownership ready to add yet another long-term, high AAV contract, amid this disaster of a season?

If you can't sign him by the deadline, I think you have to move him. At 4.6M AAV this year and next, he'd be very attractive to a team in the middle of their window, like Vegas or Dallas. And if you were willing to retain some? You'd get an even better price.

Besides, we need more balance on D (having all of Sanderson, Chabot and Chychrun is probably not a recipe for success).

I'd love to get Kaeden Korczak out of Vegas alongside a pick or two. Big, rangy, RD who's a defence first guy.

The time to get maximum value for him is at the draft with the acquiring team allowed to pre-negotiate a July 1st contract with him, or on July 1st with a sign-and-trade.

If we have to move one of Chychrun or Chabot, I would listen on both, because it increases the leverage. For example, if only 1 team in the entire league wants Chabot, and a dozen teams want Chychryn, then the 1 team in on Chabot has to make a bid for Chabot that is competitive with the dozen teams who want Chychrun, because we will only move one.

I would trade whoever gets the best return. It doesn't have to be a hockey trade, because we can take the cap and assets and flip those for a RHD or a different player. I would be fine with keeping Chychrun unsigned going into the season if the dynamic is that he wants to stay in Ottawa, but needs to see the moves we make and how the team responds. If Chychrun says he wants to move on, and it is definitive, then you have to move Chychrun instead of Chabot.

The way I see it is that if they move Chabot in the summer, let Chychrun play out the season until January, and things are so bad that he won't re-sign, they have bigger problems than losing those two players. At that point, you're looking at a major re-tool or even possibly a rebuild anyways, so it doesn't matter that they lose both of those players at the same time.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

The time to get maximum value for him is at the draft with the acquiring team allowed to pre-negotiate a July 1st contract with him, or on July 1st with a sign-and-trade.

If we have to move one of Chychrun or Chabot, I would listen on both, because it increases the leverage. For example, if only 1 team in the entire league wants Chabot, and a dozen teams want Chychryn, then the 1 team in on Chabot has to make a bid for Chabot that is competitive with the dozen teams who want Chychrun, because we will only move one.

I would trade whoever gets the best return. It doesn't have to be a hockey trade, because we can take the cap and assets and flip those for a RHD or a different player. I would be fine with keeping Chychrun unsigned going into the season if the dynamic is that he wants to stay in Ottawa, but needs to see the moves we make and how the team responds. If Chychrun says he wants to move on, and it is definitive, then you have to move Chychrun instead of Chabot.

The way I see it is that if they move Chabot in the summer, let Chychrun play out the season until January, and things are so bad that he won't re-sign, they have bigger problems than losing those two players. At that point, you're looking at a major re-tool or even possibly a rebuild anyways, so it doesn't matter that they lose both of those players at the same time.

If we're talking contenders (Dallas, VGK, etc), they'd probably value having him for 2 playoff runs at a relatively low AAV, so the deadline would be a better bet. Especially if Andlauer and co. are willing to retain ~25%.

 

[GCK]

If we're talking contenders (Dallas, VGK, etc), they'd probably value having him for 2 playoff runs at a relatively low AAV, so the deadline would be a better bet. Especially if Andlauer and co. are willing to retain ~25%.

We can only retain on 2 players at the deadline. I’d imagine that’s Tarasenko and 1 of Kubalik or Brannstrom

 

[Dionysus]

The veteran leadership group is Hamonic and Giroux. We need 3 more vets who have been around and we desperately need more size.

The depth is a serious issue. Top line talent has underperformed, as has the weak depth. When both fail, you get a poorly performing team. Add in bad goaltending and you get a bottom 5 team.

Some veteran upgrades are sorely needed. Hamonic, Brannstrom, Kubalik, and Kelly are the first in line for upgrades in my books.

Stable and mobile RD, as well as defensively responsible middle 6 players would be excellent additions.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Do we have any evidence that this roster can play a well structured game for more than 3 games in a row?

New coach would help but it wouldn't fix the poor roster construction. We also need to retool the rebuild.

Poor roster construction is not related to playing a well structured game. Unless you’ve assembled a team of complete morons

Have you seen some teams that make the playoffs? They’re not all these meticulously built works of art. Some are flat out not that great.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

We can only retain on 2 players at the deadline. I’d imagine that’s Tarasenko and 1 of Kubalik or Brannstrom

Tarasenko is someone you'd retain on, for sure.

Not Kubalik or Brannstrom. Those guys are going for late-round picks, if anyone wants them at all. Retaining isn't bumping up the return, since they're, at best, injury insurance for whoever acquires them.

 

[Dionysus]

Poor roster construction is not related to playing a well structured game. Unless you’ve assembled a team of complete morons.

I think structure is influenced by the roster construction.

If a roster is constructed with thought and purpose, the players will add to an overall vision of the teams identity and defined roles.

The current roster is a couple high-end picks and a smattering of random disjointed parts frankensteined together by Dorion. Player acquisitions never seemed to fit a consistent identity. More like a magpie picking up whatever shiny thing it sees.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think structure is influenced by the roster construction.

If a roster is constructed with thought and purpose, the players will add to an overall vision of the teams identity and defined roles.

The current roster is a couple high-end picks and a smattering of random disjointed parts frankensteined together by Dorion. Player acquisitions never seemed to fit a consistent identity. More like a magpie picking up whatever shiny thing it sees.

If you can play hockey you can do what a coach tells you what to do. Regardless if you if you fit within some ideal construction.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think structure is influenced by the roster construction.

If a roster is constructed with thought and purpose, the players will add to an overall vision of the teams identity and defined roles.

The current roster is a couple high-end picks and a smattering of random disjointed parts frankensteined together by Dorion. Player acquisitions never seemed to fit a consistent identity. More like a magpie picking up whatever shiny thing it sees.

Big Name hunting. He did it with Duchene, DeBrincat, Chychrun, Tarasenko, Murray. The Many Flaws of Pierre Dorion.
One of his biggest issues that has been consistently present was the ability to evaluate his own roster. I also don't think he had much appreciation for the type of player this roster needs wrt to forwards and defense.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If we're talking contenders (Dallas, VGK, etc), they'd probably value having him for 2 playoff runs at a relatively low AAV, so the deadline would be a better bet. Especially if Andlauer and co. are willing to retain ~25%.

We're not going to retain on a multi-year contract, we are trying to compete next year.

2 playoffs runs is more valuable than Chychrun in the summer without an extension, but it isn't more valuable than Chychrun with an extension baked into the deal.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

We're not going to retain on a multi-year contract, we are trying to compete next year.

2 playoffs runs is more valuable than Chychrun in the summer without an extension, but it isn't more valuable than Chychrun with an extension baked into the deal.

I mean, we'll see.

The Senators will have a cap credit of $625k next year from the Colin White buyout, and the other dead hits (Murray, Ryan) are coming off the books.

With the cap rising to $87.7M, Ottawa's upper limit will be $88.325M.

I doubt Andlauer spends to the upper limit, so there'll be room to add a retained salary (for 1 season, in the case of Chychrun) if it increases the return.

And if a team like Vegas or Dallas is trading for him, they'll be pretty confident that they can sign him to that extension.

Look at Debrincat. Could we have gotten more if we had traded him at the deadline instead of in the summer? Probably.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If they deal Chychrun at the deadline, they could take back a contract to make it closer to cap in/cap out. Not necessarily a bad contract, but someone who would be redundant with not a lot of trade value.

For example, something like sending him to Edmonton for picks+prospects, and we take back Cody Ceci in the deal to make the cap work for them. That's not really wasted cap for us, because he will play in our top 6 next year, but it is cap considerations for Edmonton.

I can't see them retaining when his cap hit is already at half of what it should be. If they retain on Chychrun, the return has to be enormously inflated. Similar to how Brandon Hagel got way more than a comparable player would get with his resume at the time, because he was cost controlled at 1.5M. (He more than lived up to what they gave up for him, but I mean at the time.)

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

If they deal Chychrun at the deadline, they could take back a contract to make it closer to cap in/cap out. Not necessarily a bad contract, but someone who would be redundant with not a lot of trade value.

For example, something like sending him to Edmonton for picks+prospects, and we take back Cody Ceci in the deal to make the cap work for them. That's not really wasted cap for us, because he will play in our top 6 next year, but it is cap considerations for Edmonton.

I can't see them retaining when his cap hit is already at half of what it should be. If they retain on Chychrun, the return has to be enormously inflated. Similar to how Brandon Hagel got way more than a comparable player would get with his resume at the time, because he was cost controlled at 1.5M. (He more than lived up to what they gave up for him, but I mean at the time.)

This would be the idea.

Let's say Vegas. You could trade them Chychrun with 25% retained, take back Whitecloud (they upgrade the position, cap hit is close to neutral for this year and next, we get a useful player back, and they can re-sign Chychrun to a higher number when McNabb and Martinez are off their books).

But for doing that, we get better picks and prospects on top of Whitecloud.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Poor roster construction is not related to playing a well structured game. Unless you’ve assembled a team of complete morons

Have you seen some teams that make the playoffs? They’re not all these meticulously built works of art. Some are flat out not that great.

2008 to 2017 Sens.

So many different coaches too.

 

[GCK]

I doubt Andlauer spends to the upper limit, so there'll be room to add a retained salary (for 1 season, in the case of Chychrun) if it increases the return.

Why do you think Andlauer won’t spend to the cap ?

 

[DueDiligence]

For example, something like sending him to Edmonton for picks+prospects, and we take back Cody Ceci in the deal to make the cap work for them. That's not really wasted cap for us, because he will play in our top 6 next year, but it is cap considerations for Edmonton.

Cody Ceci is exactly the type of D man the Sens wouldn't need. Big but soft with some offensive skills but not a good defensive Dman.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Why do you think Andlauer won’t spend to the cap ?

I think he will, eventually, but probably not next year.

The upper cap limit for Ottawa next year will be $88.375M (including the credit from White's buyout).

Currently, we have just over $75M of cap hits for next season. Assuming Pinto gets anywhere from $2.5-3M for next year, we'll have ~$10M of space, with only 2 roster spots to fill. And I bet Crookshank takes one of them.

Staios and Andlauer seem like pretty methodical people. I doubt they're going to go out and sign a top-end UFA or make a splashy trade where they add a significant salary in the same offseason that they need to find and integrate the next GM and coach.

 

[Beech]

I think he will, eventually, but probably not next year.

The upper cap limit for Ottawa next year will be $88.375M (including the credit from White's buyout).

Currently, we have just over $75M of cap hits for next season. Assuming Pinto gets anywhere from $2.5-3M for next year, we'll have ~$10M of space, with only 2 roster spots to fill. And I bet Crookshank takes one of them.

Staios and Andlauer seem like pretty methodical people. I doubt they're going to go out and sign a top-end UFA or make a splashy trade where they add a significant salary in the same offseason that they need to find and integrate the next GM and coach.

Jody,

true dollars or AAV.

True dollars, Andlauer is well over the Cap and that will be that way for 3-4 more years.

 

[Ghost of Jody Hull]

Jody,

true dollars or AAV.

True dollars, Andlauer is well over the Cap and that will be that way for 3-4 more years.

That has nothing to do with what I posted. From an AAV perspective, I don't think the team will be at the cap next year, so there's room for salary retention to increase trade returns.

 

[Sting]

Big Name hunting. He did it with Duchene, DeBrincat, Chychrun, Tarasenko, Murray. The Many Flaws of Pierre Dorion.
One of his biggest issues that has been consistently present was the ability to evaluate his own roster. I also don't think he had much appreciation for the type of player this roster needs wrt to forwards and defense.

On top of the fact that he was chasing big names, he also depleted the organization of the assets needed to properly contend. He traded away 1st round picks before they were even a playoff team (no other team does this).

 

[scout20]

Maybe the Devils would trade for Chychurn? Hamilton is out for the year which frees up a lot of cap space. Tyler Toffoli is a free agent at the end of the year saving the team another 4.2 million...