Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[TheNewEra]

It was a reference to relocating to Lebreton or Downtown, and timing a second rebuild to peak around that. I guess I got too cute with the Ottawa-Gatineau reference.

The thing about it being coaching is that they really have one shot at fixing it next year. If they miss the playoffs again next year, let alone have another embarrassing season, it's over for this core. They can't risk keeping Brady once the NMC kicks in, and if he wants out, then you have to imagine Chychrun and Chabot are both gone and so on.

In a best case scenario, they figure out what the problem is and retool the org' and roster so that this core can win.

I agree but wasting the season this year and letting more of the bad habits get ingrained is just wrong

Plus the new gm will probably make a couple of moves in the offseason. The players should be evaluated under a different coach to see who needs to go

I'm making a judgment on our goalies because there is one really soft goal they let in every game. Only consistent part of the season lol

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Lol, stop it. The team is young and has a bunch of good players There is a 5- to 10-year rebuild needed.

You have to account for the players asking out.

Brady and Chabot have both faces 6+ year never ending rebuilds. Brady's NMC kicks in on July 1st 2025. Chychrun is a pending UFA who faced the same never ending rebuild in Arizona, and while he was thrilled to come home, may want to play with a playoff team. Those 3 could ask for trades or not re-sign.

It's not unrealistic to think that they could lose those 3 players by July 1st 2025. Add in Giroux declining with age or leaving. That's a huge chunk of the core.

Anything can happen, and maybe a retool around Sanderson and Stutzle could be quick. But I kind of doubt it. The organizational depth is very weak long term. A retool could take 2+ years. A rebuild, 5+.

The point I am making isn't that the sky is falling. It's that the upcoming offseason might be the last chance the team has to fix this before there could be significant consequences.

 

[HSF]

Sens aren't relocating lol

As for the first point, defensive system is complete trash and our coach is a moron. Agreed on both points.

That being said there were 1 if not 2 very stoppable goals allowed against Vegas and at least 1 against Dallas. Just getting those saves changes the whole game and how the team plays. And when I say very stoppable I don't mean the plays where our team as mental breakdown

I think people need to understand how hard it is to play net when the structure infront of them is such a mess. Goalies start to cheat when they can't trust the players in infront and then also having to play constant odd man rushes and breakaways.

Even Sanderson looks like shit

 

[2CHAINZ]

You have to account for the players asking out.

Brady and Chabot have both faces 6+ year never ending rebuilds. Brady's NMC kicks in on July 1st 2025. Chychrun is a pending UFA who faced the same never ending rebuild in Arizona, and while he was thrilled to come home, may want to play with a playoff team. Those 3 could ask for trades or not re-sign.

It's not unrealistic to think that they could lose those 3 players by July 1st 2025. Add in Giroux declining with age or leaving. That's a huge chunk of the core.

Anything can happen, and maybe a retool around Sanderson and Stutzle could be quick. But I kind of doubt it. The organizational depth is very weak long term. A retool could take 2+ years. A rebuild, 5+.

The point I am making isn't that the sky is falling. It's that the upcoming offseason might be the last chance the team has to fix this before there could be significant consequences.

Lol, you have a case of Sens PTSD. No one is asking out; get a new coach and win games, and this whole narrative will change. Getting a new coach and finding some stability in the net should be the #1 and only priorities right now.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I think people need to understand how hard it is to play net when the structure infront of them is such a mess. Goalies start to cheat when they can't trust the players in infront and then also having to play constant odd man rushes and breakaways.

Even Sanderson looks like shit

Which is why the color commentators are saying every game some variation of "I think [Korpisalo/Forsberg] would really love to have that one back" or "Your goaltender needs to make that save for you". The "structure" can be slightly deficient and you can have absolutely dogshit goaltending at the same time. As a matter of fact, from a psychological perspective, having dogshit goaltending is a lot harder on the skaters than the inverse.

You know what every team's gameplan is against Ottawa? Shoot the puck. Period. If I was coaching against Ottawa, I would tell my team to shoot from anywhere and everywhere because pucks WILL find their way into the net.

It's honestly impossible to play at this level with this kind of goaltending result. You don't have trust in the guy in nets it will affect every single decision you make. There's no way around it.

 

[HSF]

Which is why the color commentators are saying every game some variation of "I think [Korpisalo/Forsberg] would really love to have that one back" or "Your goaltender needs to make that save for you". The "structure" can be slightly deficient and you can have absolutely dogshit goaltending at the same time. As a matter of fact, from a psychological perspective, having dogshit goaltending is a lot harder on the skaters than the inverse.

You know what every team's gameplan is against Ottawa? Shoot the puck. Period. If I was coaching against Ottawa, I would tell my team to shoot from anywhere and everywhere because pucks WILL find their way into the net.

It's honestly impossible to play at this level with this kind of goaltending result. You don't have trust in the guy in nets it will affect every single decision you make. There's no way around it.

I don't think the messaging is shoot the puck. Teams are exploiting us so hard on odd man rushes and puck battles

Its no wonder that Gus and Talbot looks much better being off this roster

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Lol, you have a case of Sens PTSD. No one is asking out; get a new coach and win games, and this whole narrative will change. Getting a new coach and finding some stability in the net should be the #1 and only priorities right now.

Getting a qualified coach will most definitely lead to a semblance of stability in the net.

Show me a good goalie and more often than not he plays behind a well structured team.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Lol, you have a case of Sens PTSD. No one is asking out; get a new coach and win games, and this whole narrative will change. Getting a new coach and finding some stability in the net should be the #1 and only priorities right now.

I never disagreed with that.

If they figure out how to fix the problem and start winning, then everything is good. If they don't, it's a very difficult situation because of the timing of Brady's NMC, and the possibility of key members walking or asking out.

I do have Sens PTSD, but the above take is hardly the sky is falling. It's a pretty middle-of-the-road take. If I said, the core is damaged, these guys are a country club, Claude Giroux wears a neckguard, there is no fixing this, etc - then I would get that.

 

[2CHAINZ]

Getting a qualified coach will most definitely lead to a semblance of stability in the net.

Show me a good goalie and more often than not he plays behind a well structured team.

I don't disagree with you, but this entire season, when we are in control of games, both of our goalies have let in and continue to let in backbreaking garbage that needs to change.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Getting a qualified coach will most definitely lead to a semblance of stability in the net.

Show me a good goalie and more often than not he plays behind a well structured team.

Do we have any evidence that this roster can play a well structured game for more than 3 games in a row?

New coach would help but it wouldn't fix the poor roster construction. We also need to retool the rebuild.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I never disagreed with that.

If they figure out how to fix the problem and start winning, then everything is good. If they don't, it's a very difficult situation because of the timing of Brady's NMC, and the possibility of key members walking or asking out.

I do have Sens PTSD, but the above take is hardly the sky is falling. It's a pretty middle-of-the-road take. If I said, the core is damaged, these guys are a country club, Claude Giroux wears a neckguard, there is no fixing this, etc - then I would get that.

Your original post was that we need to decide if this current core is fixable or bite the bullet and go back into another 5- to 10-year rebuild. Talking about a 5 to 10-year rebuild in year one of our rebuild being over is some sky-falling stuff

 

[HSF]

I don't disagree with you, but this entire season, when we are in control of games, both of our goalies have let in and continue to let in backbreaking garbage that needs to change.

I have yet to see the Sens play a complete game for a handful of games. Many games we start out strong then fall off. It's not a way to succeed. Our 2nd periods are atrocious. Goalies also know they can't make mistakes cause this team has no ability to comeback when they are down

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Do we have any evidence that this roster can play a well structured game for more than 3 games in a row?

New coach would help but it wouldn't fix the poor roster construction. We also need to retool the rebuild.

I have no such evidence but no one has evidence that this roster wouldn't drastically improve under a new voice either. I think you have to try that first before shipping a player out.

 

[2CHAINZ]

I have yet to see the Sens play a complete game for a handful of games. Many games we start out strong then fall off. It's not a way to succeed. Our 2nd periods are atrocious. Goalies also know they can't make mistakes cause this team has no ability to comeback when they are down

I agree with you that team defensive play and goalie play have both been bad and break backing. I am not saying it's all the goalies fault but there has been some terrible goaltending this year.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I don't think the messaging is shoot the puck. Teams are exploiting us so hard on odd man rushes and puck battles

Its no wonder that Gus and Talbot looks much better being off this roster

Look at the advanced stats.

For goalies with at least 10 games played, Forsberg has seen the least high danger scoring chances against but has the 9th worst high danger save percentage out of 54 goalies in that category.

In average shot distance, 36.89 is 5th best.

In rush attempts against, he's 12th.

In expected goals against, he's 1st.

His expected goals against average is 2.38, which would be 2nd.

Any way you slice it and look at the numbers, his goaltending this year has been absolutely backbreaking for the team.

 

[HSF]

Look at the advanced stats.

For goalies with at least 10 games played, Forsberg has seen the least high danger scoring chances against but has the 9th worst high danger save percentage out of 54 goalies in that category.

In average shot distance, 36.89 is 5th best.

In rush attempts against, he's 12th.

In expected goals against, he's 1st.

His expected goals against average is 2.38, which would be 2nd.

Any way you slice it and look at the numbers, his goaltending this year has been absolutely backbreaking for the team.

How about Korpi? He has played decent for most of the year. The players keep playing terribly infront of him it won't get easier

 

[Micklebot]

Can't forget nilsson. Bad contract even though it was a 2 year deal

Nilsson had a .911 sv% for us as a backup, had a 500 record despite playing behind some terrible teams. What was wrong with that contract?

 

[BankStreetParade]

How about Korpi? He has played decent for most of the year. The players keep playing terribly infront of him it won't get easier

Also underperforming across the board in the areas that really count. Not as bad as Forsberg, who's been absolutely putrid, but still not good enough. The chances he's facing have been pretty straightforward but underperforms on almost all expected metrics.

 

[HSF]

Also underperforming across the board in the areas that really count. Not as bad as Forsberg, who's been absolutely putrid, but still not good enough. The chances he's facing have been pretty straightforward but underperforms on almost all expected metrics.

I suspect you get a more structured game infront of them and their numbers will improve.

Forsberg is a career backup and Korpi is probably an average starter you can't them to play above the team infront of them.

 

[CDN24]

I don't think the messaging is shoot the puck. Teams are exploiting us so hard on odd man rushes and puck battles

Its no wonder that Gus and Talbot looks much better being off this roster

Yeah the goaltending has not been great but they are left hung out to dry way too much. Too many goalies look great before they get here and again after they leave for it to be just coincidence.

 

[HSF]

Yeah the goaltending has not been great but they are left hung out to dry way too much. Too many goalies look great before they get here and again after they leave for it to be just coincidence.

Yup even defensemen get worse here except maybe Zub.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dorion being in charge of getting another goalie should have been out of the question.

Sent out Gus for Talbot

Spent 25 million and a 2nd for a year of Murray.

Threw another 20 million for 5 years at Korpisalo.

Forsberg for 3 years and 8.5 million

Signed Condon to a 7.5 million dollar deal

60 million spent, on what amounts to 2 guys who were shortly out of the league, and 2 guys who struggle playing 35 games a season.

Not a single guy you want as your starter, outside of 25 year old Gus who they sent out.

The Sens have been horrific at identifying and signing goaltenders for the better part of a decade.

The timing of the sale really, really f***ed the Sens over. Unless you get a legitimate starter, they should not be signed to more than 2 year deals.

The fact the Sens had that bozo in charge for 8 years is absurd.

It's unbelievable. It'd be hard to have it work out this poorly if one actually had that as their goal.

I'm glad we no longer have to live in a world here where some have rope to pretend it was all some genius long game. The proof is in the pudding. The jig is up. Dorion was in over his head and couldn't find a decent goaltender if it woke up in the morning.

 

[2CHAINZ]

Yeah the goaltending has not been great but they are left hung out to dry way too much. Too many goalies look great before they get here and again after they leave for it to be just coincidence.

None of the goalies we have signed recently looked good before coming here. Korpisalo was always streaky; he should not have gotten more than a 2-year deal. Now we are stuck with a contract that is impossible to move. Murray looked like total garbage before he got here, and he continued to look like total garbage after Dorion paid him assets and gave him infinite dollars. Forsberg was on waivers.

 

[HSF]

None of the goalies we have signed recently looked good before coming here. Korpisalo was always streaky; he should not have gotten more than a 2-year deal. Now we are stuck with a contract that is impossible to move. Murray looked like total garbage before he got here, and he continued to look like total garbage after Dorion paid him assets and gave him infinite dollars. Forsberg was on waivers.

Murray was actually decent in Tor and the season before in Ott. He just always got injured. Korpi hasn't looked that bad here either. The structure has to improve considerably though. The amount off odd man rushes will kill anyones save %

 

[BankStreetParade]

I suspect you get a more structured game infront of them and their numbers will improve.

Forsberg is a career backup and Korpi is probably an average starter you can't them to play above the team infront of them.

I posted the advanced stats for Forsberg. The basic premise is that he's actually getting pretty good defensive play in front of him and is absolutely sucking ass. When the average shot you face is almost 37ft, which is 5th best among goalies with 10+ games played, that indicates that the team is mostly keeping shots to the outside. He's also first in expected goals against, which indicates the team playing in front of him is giving him every opportunity to keep pucks out of the net.

Feel free to post stats that indicate otherwise and explain what "more structure" would to improve upon the numbers I posted.