Free Agency and Trade Thread - Playoff Edition II

[Nithoniniel]

Obviously, you only make that deal after you've talked to Hamonic's people, a) to see if Toronto is a fit (NTC) and b) agreed to some sort of an extension. Yes, blindly, this could be a bad deal. But, if you have an extension, it's a pretty good deal.

I guess I am just not that high on Hamonic. Had a strong year on their mid pairing, but the year before that he was one of the worst d-men in the league. Even if we get an extension, if this year turns out to be an outlier then the deal might end up even worse. Like crippling bad.

 

[Fogelhund]

I guess I am just not that high on Hamonic. Had a strong year on their mid pairing, but the year before that he was one of the worst d-men in the league. Even if we get an extension, if this year turns out to be an outlier then the deal might end up even worse. Like crippling bad.

and the years before that, he was very good with the Islanders. It's like taking Nylander's year last year, and suggesting that is who Nylander is.

 

[rumman]

and the years before that, he was very good with the Islanders. It's like taking Nylander's year last year, and suggesting that is who Nylander is.

that's only a usable position when defending Nylander, it doesn't apply to other players.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You could if you run Rielly and Muzzin as the top pair then Dermott and Miller or Dermott and Pysyk as the 2nd pair

I just had a look on cap friendly and I could make things work with a

Marleau + picks for Wennberg trade
Brown for Benning + something small
Kadri for a 4M type mid pair RD (I used Miller + pick)
Zaitsev + pick for Pysyk

I would say I was using Wennberg as our 3C and I resigned Johnsson and Kapanen at 2.85M×2 then Marner at 9.85×7

Once I LTIR Horton it fit, the defense wasn't horrendous and I didn't need to IR Dermott or Hyman

Marner 9.85 x 8 years
Hutch 1 year at 895k
Kappy and Johnsson 2 years at 2.5M each

Marleau, our 2019 4th, 2020 3rd for Alex Wennberg
Brown and Sparks for Benning and a 2nd (maybe too much?)
Kadri for Sanheim, Laughton and a 2nd (maybe too much?)
Zaitsev for Pysyk (maybe needs more pieces?

Then re-signed both Laughton and Sanheim to 2 year deals at 1.5M per.
Signed UFA Bellemare for 1 year at 1.5M

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Moore-Wennberg-Kapanen
Bellemare-Laughton-Mikhayev
Marchment-Gauthier

Rielly-Sanheim
Muzzin-Pysyk
Dermott-Benning
Rosen

Andersen
Hutch

Cap space left approx 1.4M in case I was off on contract demands. I wouldn't be mad if we signed Kruger instead of Bellemare, real big fan. Advanced stats aren't sexy due to 80% DZone starts at 5v5.

 

[Fogelhund]

Marner 9.85 x 8 years
Hutch 1 year at 895k
Kappy and Johnsson 2 years at 2.5M each

Marleau, our 2019 4th, 2020 3rd for Alex Wennberg
Brown and Sparks for Benning and a 2nd (maybe too much?)
Kadri for Sanheim, Laughton and a 2nd (maybe too much?)
Zaitsev for Pysyk (maybe needs more pieces?

Then re-signed both Laughton and Sanheim to 2 year deals at 1.5M per.
Signed UFA Bellemare for 1 year at 1.5M

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Moore-Wennberg-Kapanen
Bellemare-Laughton-Mikhayev
Marchment-Gauthier

Rielly-Sanheim
Muzzin-Pysyk
Dermott-Benning
Rosen

Andersen
Hutch

Cap space left approx 1.4M in case I was off on contract demands. I wouldn't be mad if we signed Kruger instead of Bellemare, real big fan. Advanced stats aren't sexy due to 80% DZone starts at 5v5.

Flyers wouldn't do that Sanheim deal for Kadri on his own, and he's getting far more than $1.5M.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[WTFMAN99]

Flyers wouldn't do that Sanheim deal for Kadri on his own, and he's getting far more than $1.5M.

Flyers were connected on Kadri, just trying to extract some actual value. Provorov sure as heck ain't coming our way, if we can't even pull Sanheim then I wouldn't bother. Ghost is garbage defensively, there really isn't much else there that would appeal to me.

Their 1st, Hartman, Laughton?

11th overall seems like a high pick though.

 

[Nithoniniel]

and the years before that, he was very good with the Islanders. It's like taking Nylander's year last year, and suggesting that is who Nylander is.

True, however it was the superficial stats where Nylander suffered. The underlying numbers were as strong as ever once he got going. Meanwhile, absolutely everything was awful for Hamonic. I was also about to include earlier that Hamonic was a bit overrated before that, but I just went on gut feeling and didn't want to post something that might be way off.

I took a look now. Over his last five seasons, he's been a negative possession and expected goals player, his production is not great, his penalty differential is bad, and his usage hasn't been tough enough to explain it all. So my impressions fit the numbers pretty well. I think his reputation got a bit inflated as a big, physical defender who can play.

 

[deletethis]

Goals and assists are now called "superficial stats". Then again "possession stats" are measured by each time a player or his teammate voluntarily gives up possession of the puck. Next thing you're going to tell me that I'm an apple simply because I declare myself to be an apple.

 

[ToneDog]

Goals and assists are now called "superficial stats". Then again "possession stats" are measured by each time a player or his teammate voluntarily gives up possession of the puck. Next thing you're going to tell me that I'm an apple simply because I declare myself to be an apple.

LOL. OK you are an apple and I am an orange.

 

[Erndog]

I don't think we are going to be players in the UFA market this year for obvious reasons (save for those bargain basement deals)... but I took a look at next years crop (so far) and the amount of RIGHT D is astonishing.

Alex Pietrangelo, Justin Schultz, Tyson Barrie, Mike Green, Jared Spurgeon, Zach Bogosian, Sami Vatanen, Justin Faulk, TJ Brodie (lefty but plays RD), Chris Tanev, Travis Hamonic, Justin Braun, Radko Gudas, Trevor VanRiemsdyk, Mark Pysyk, Matt Benning, etc....

Clearly several will re-sign, but there could be a few targets here.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I don't think we are going to be players in the UFA market this year for obvious reasons (save for those bargain basement deals)... but I took a look at next years crop (so far) and the amount of RIGHT D is astonishing.

Alex Pietrangelo, Justin Schultz, Tyson Barrie, Mike Green, Jared Spurgeon, Zach Bogosian, Sami Vatanen, Justin Faulk, TJ Brodie (lefty but plays RD), Chris Tanev, Travis Hamonic, Justin Braun, Radko Gudas, Trevor VanRiemsdyk, Mark Pysyk, Matt Benning, etc....

Clearly several will re-sign, but there could be a few targets here.

I think we're going to be very active in the trade market. I see Kadri and Brown as gone, one of Nylaner/Kapanen/Johnsson, and obviously Gardiner.

 

[Fogelhund]

Flyers were connected on Kadri, just trying to extract some actual value. Provorov sure as heck ain't coming our way, if we can't even pull Sanheim then I wouldn't bother. Ghost is garbage defensively, there really isn't much else there that would appeal to me.

Their 1st, Hartman, Laughton?

11th overall seems like a high pick though.

I think you are looking for the wrong type of D man. You seem to be looking at their shiny offensive guys. Flyers fans will still resist, but the deal we'd need to make is more along the lines of Myers + Laughton for Kadri + 3rd, or Gudas + Laughton for Kadri + 2nd. HF Boards fans will never agree, even when the value is there... though some Flyers fans agreed value was there, they just didn't want to move the pieces.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think we're going to be very active in the trade market. I see Kadri and Brown as gone, one of Nylaner/Kapanen/Johnsson, and obviously Gardiner.

It's going to be a bipolar offseason. If we can obtain that RHD that we need... there will be plenty of action due to the dominoes affect, of cap space, and extra bodies etc.. If we can't obtain him... then there will be considerably less action.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think you are looking for the wrong type of D man. You seem to be looking at their shiny offensive guys. Flyers fans will still resist, but the deal we'd need to make is more along the lines of Myers + Laughton for Kadri + 3rd, or Gudas + Laughton for Kadri + 2nd. HF Boards fans will never agree, even when the value is there... though some Flyers fans agreed value was there, they just didn't want to move the pieces.

I wouldn't trade Kadri for Laughton+Gudas+3rd....

Myers is all potential but hardly a sure thing. Laughton just broke out last year but hard to tell if it was a 1 year thing. Gudas is a 3rd pair guy 1 year from UFA?

If that was the best offer we got for Kadri, I would just keep him.

 

[Budsfan]

If we trade Nylander, we need to get something great back. A second pairing defender on an expiring contract, a bottom six forward, and a late 1st is not that. In one years time, that trade would look awful.

Not necessarily, it depends on whether Nylander can bounce back, I believe he has to play centre and the only open spot would seem to be Kadri's 3rd line spot, plus Sam Bennett could also play there, Nylander has played very well in the tournament but can he play here, he has yet to demonstrate that he can.
Leafs are in win now mode and if he stays on our cap at just under 7 mill per season, signing Johnsson, Ennis Kapanen and Marner and adding other players even if Kadri is dealt and I'm sure he will be but it'll be interesting to see if Nylander is kept however my feeling is he will.

 

[Fogelhund]

I wouldn't trade Kadri for Laughton+Gudas+3rd....

Myers is all potential but hardly a sure thing. Laughton just broke out last year but hard to tell if it was a 1 year thing. Gudas is a 3rd pair guy 1 year from UFA?

If that was the best offer we got for Kadri, I would just keep him.

Kadri isn't some elite asset. He's good, but he's not going to get you a legit, good contract second pairing RHD, AND a emerging #3C on an entry level deal.

Having said that, Gudas is a 2nd pairing guy, who logs decent PK time as well. Yes, he's one year from UFA, but that is why you do your homework, and talk to his team before a trade. That type of thing should be obvious. The Myers potential deal, I think is one that could really work out well for us.

The deals that we make, aren't necessarily going to be the A list players we want... most of them just aren't available, and yet we've still got to improve the roster.

 

[deletethis]

More important is to convert excess in one area (higher end forward talent) for an area of greater need (higher end defense talent). That may involve less than ideal "asset management". You have to remember that the goal of the team is to win championships not extend the value of its contention for the longest possible duration. A player(s) may be acquired who is only here for a season or two. Such is the nature of making a serious effort to win a championship.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Kadri isn't some elite asset. He's good, but he's not going to get you a legit, good contract second pairing RHD, AND a emerging #3C on an entry level deal.

Having said that, Gudas is a 2nd pairing guy, who logs decent PK time as well. Yes, he's one year from UFA, but that is why you do your homework, and talk to his team before a trade. That type of thing should be obvious. The Myers potential deal, I think is one that could really work out well for us.

The deals that we make, aren't necessarily going to be the A list players we want... most of them just aren't available, and yet we've still got to improve the roster.

Just keep the 2C we have making 3C money at that point then. Guys like Nelson are pulling 6M, 1.5M more then Kadri, whom avg'd 10 pts more last 3 yrs.

 

[rumman]

I wouldn't trade Kadri for Laughton+Gudas+3rd....

Myers is all potential but hardly a sure thing. Laughton just broke out last year but hard to tell if it was a 1 year thing. Gudas is a 3rd pair guy 1 year from UFA?

If that was the best offer we got for Kadri, I would just keep him.

I'd persoanlly rather take the gamble and go for Myers over Gudas.

 

[Fogelhund]

Just keep the 2C we have making 3C money at that point then. Guys like Nelson are pulling 6M, 1.5M more then Kadri, whom avg'd 10 pts more last 3 yrs.

Status quo on D isn't acceptable though... Changes of some sort are going to have to come, with Gardiner and Hainsey likely gone, and Dermott out for some time.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'd persoanlly rather take the gamble and go for Myers over Gudas.

At that point you either keep Kadri or look at other teams that might have an interest. Ghost, Myers or Gudas don't even start the conversation for me unless #11 is coming our way too. Ghost and #11 wouldn't happen, too much value there. Ghost is just bad defensively though.

Status quo on D isn't acceptable though... Changes of some sort are going to have to come, with Gardiner and Hainsey likely gone, and Dermott out for some time.

Change is fine, but the value has to be there.

You can deal other players that aren't Kadri as well

 

[Stephen]

Kind of curious to envision what Phil Kessel could do with this core.

 

[Fogelhund]

At that point you either keep Kadri or look at other teams that might have an interest. Ghost, Myers or Gudas don't even start the conversation for me unless #11 is coming our way too. Ghost and #11 wouldn't happen, too much value there. Ghost is just bad defensively though.



Change is fine, but the value has to be there.

You can deal other players that aren't Kadri as well

I think we see things differently. I think Laughton is going to become a premier #3C in this league, on a cheap contract. It's his defensive side that stands out... 54% in the dot, 64% dzone starts, and a decent GA/60 compared to other Flyers, with that usage. If he can also be a regular 30 point guy, that would be great for the Leafs.

Kadri had 31 points 5v5 last year... Laughton 30 points. Laughton is 24, and will cost around $1.5 mil.... that is HUGE. To get the same even strength production, from a guy who might, at 24, already be better defensively, at a third the Cap hit.... and get a RHD that in Gudas, is our second pairing, or in Myers... a prospect, but likely second, maybe even top pairing defensively down the road. As we try and balance our team, and fit within the Cap... such moves could be huge.

 

[Fogelhund]

Kind of curious to envision what Phil Kessel could do with this core.

I actually have joked about sending Kapanen back to Pittsburgh for him.... particularly if we ended up moving Nylander for a RHD. His cap hit would only be $6.8 to us... same as Nylander...