Proposal: Fowler for a Jets winger

[Daximus]

Oh Morrissey has had a good preseason... why didn't you say so that changes everything

Morrissey is basically being gifted that spot because you guys have no other options hes really not beating anyone out for that position.

He's not being gifted anything. He earned it. Whether you think he did or didn't is irrelevant because our staff think he has.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

He's not being gifted anything. He earned it. Whether you think he did or didn't is irrelevant because our staff think he has.

He earned it against who? You are missing the point... there isn't many options or competition @ defense for the jets.

 

[Daximus]

I see your displaying your lack of understanding of Fowler's usage. He is not just a shutdown Dman - he is used situationally. His biggest strength and what sets him apart is his ability to skate pucks out of the D-zone, thus he always leads the team in Defensive Zone Starts. Guess what, when you consistently start in your Dzone, you are much more likely to be on the wrong side of stats like corsi which measure shot attempt differential...You switch his role with someone like Vatanen and you could turn Fowler into a corsi darling.

I wouldn't say always because Lindholm led in the playoffs. Many defencemen take on defensive zone time in abundance in shutdown roles and can still be positive possession drivers. Why is Fowler the exception?

 

[Daximus]

He earned it against who? You are missing the point... there isn't many options or competition @ defense for the jets.

He outplayed everyone including Buff, Myers and Enstrom.

 

[lindholmie]

Theodore can't make a Ducks team that is minus Lindholm?

Those in glass houses

Lol larsson outplayed him. That's a great problem to have. They have like 8 defensemen and Theodore and montour will play lots of time in the AHL. They both already killed it

 

[Daximus]

Not only did Fowlers usage in the playoffs change to more offensive zone time but he still managed to be a negative possession driver.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I hardly doubt that the reason Anaheim had the lowest goals against in the league last year was entirely because of Cam Fowler. You do have one of the best defensive centers in the game and some pretty solid goaltenders. Don't undersell them to pump Fowlers tires. I mean a good portion of your forward core Kesler, Cogliano and Silfverberg take on some pretty hefty dzone time themselves. In the playoffs Lindholm saw far more Dzone time than Fowler, had better possession metrics and saw only slightly less icetime.

I never said it was entirely because of Fowler - I very much understand the other factors that went into the team being the best defensively. However, I think it is ignorant to believe a team, even with other positive contributors, could be so successful defensively if their #1 Dman was as poor as you think he is (to be a 3rd pairing Dman on poor defensive team- 9th worst in the league).

 

[lindholmie]

He would be on the Jets.

Morrissey - Buff
Enstrom - Myers
Fowler - Postma

He likely fits in on the 3rd pairing. Morrissey is playing with Buff right now. Trouba could sign but not sure yet.



Pretty solid reasoning. Why would we give up more for someone to play a bottom pairing role? He won't be in our top 4 without an injury. If you don't want it move on.



Well that reeks of insecurity.

Insecurity is jets fans going into Ducks threads and lowballing lmao

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

He outplayed everyone including Buff, Myers and Enstrom.

Named 3 players... so a defense consist of 6 people...

so who are these guys hes beating out cause looks like he was gifted a top 4 spot by default.

He may have played good in the preseason and he may even be a good dmen this year but by no means was there much comp for him to make the jets.

I'm not saying hes bad or doesn't deserve/hasn't earned it... I'm saying there is a lack of competition @ defense on the jets.

 

[Daximus]

Insecurity is jets fans going into Ducks threads and lowballing lmao

Not really no.

 

[Daximus]

Named 3 players... so a defense consist of 6 people...

so who are these guys hes beating out cause looks like he was gifted a top 4 spot by default.

He may have played good in the preseason and he may even be a good dmen this year but by no means was there much comp for him to make the jets.

I'm not saying hes bad or doesn't deserve/hasn't earned it... I'm saying there is a lack of competition @ defense on the jets.

No one is disagreeing that there isn't a lot of competition. But he was still the best defencemen on the team and played almost every preseason game. A lack of Trouba drives the competition factor down. But he still would have earned a spot even if Trouba was playing.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Not only did Fowlers usage in the playoffs change to more offensive zone time but he still managed to be a negative possession driver.

You mean the playoffs the ducks made, with fowler playing significant mins while starting the season off 1-7-2? Whats the jets excuse and before you say bad goaltending ducks goalie was pretty average all season.

Even managed to win the division... but yes fowler would be a good 3rd pairing guy on the jets lol

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

No one is disagreeing that there isn't a lot of competition. But he was still the best defencemen on the team and played almost every preseason game. A lack of Trouba drives the competition factor down. But he still would have earned a spot even if Trouba was playing.

Again you are proving my point, there isn't competition... I agree he would make the team and if Montour Theodore or Larsson were on the jets they woulda made the team too.


Even with trouba Morrissey likely makes it easily because he is the best available option for the team.

 

[Hunter368]

Jets fans are so silly. If you don't value Fowler, think he is worth so little, and that he isn't a fit, why waste your time discussing low-ball trade offers that make no sense for the ducks? The ducks obviously view him as a clear top 4 and likely top paring Dman and that is why he gets the minutes he does on the number 1 defensive team in the NHL last year. So if you, or your team, don't view him that way or have a need for a top 4 D man then why even bother discussing it.

The ducks don't need Tyler Myers, so you won't see me arguing the jets should trade him to us for Julius Nattinen, because Myers would be a #4 or #5 Dman on our team...You know why, because it makes no sense. If that is what Tyler Myers is worth to the ducks, then there is no deal there and the Jets would just look elsewhere for a higher return.

I'm not debating traded my for him, I'm debating why we wouldn't trade for him....don't want him, he offers us very little value, that's why the OP was so low to start with. FYI a OP that I didn't create. All I stated twice, was in a emergency situation if Josh didn't workout and Trouba neither signed nor traded for a LHD......I would reluctantly give up Dano as a two year bridge. That's not going on and on about trading for him. Rest of the posts are explaining my position/opinion to ducks fans who quote me.

God Forbid ducks fan's claim to know more about there players than you. Its not like we are blind homers, we will tell you when players suck (see Bieksa, Stoner and Despres lately). But anyone who watches the ducks games religiously sees how Cam is used and understands that his usage will have a big impact on the possession numbers, which get continuously used by ignorant posters who use them to support their preconceived notions. At the end of the day, if the value you want to assign to Fowler is an unwanted 2 year bridge to buy time for what appears to be an upcoming Jets Dynasty, then there is no deal that could possibly happen as the Ducks usage of Cam alone indicates they (rightfully) value him much higher than that.

Play Fowler wherever you like, don't matter to us. I wish Fowler and Ducks all the best.

 

[Daximus]

I never said it was entirely because of Fowler - I very much understand the other factors that went into the team being the best defensively. However, I think it is ignorant to believe a team, even with other positive contributors, could be so successful defensively if their #1 Dman was as poor as you think he is (to be a 3rd pairing Dman on poor defensive team- 9th worst in the league).

Don't know what to tell you. The interesting thing is Fowler actually see's more NZ time than anything else.

 

[Daximus]

Again you are proving my point, there isn't competition... I agree he would make the team and if Montour Theodore or Larsson were on the jets they woulda made the team too.


Even with trouba Morrissey likely makes it easily because he is the best available option for the team.

Oh for sure. But he's still good and has earned his spot with Buff. Otherwise Enstrom would be there.

 

[Daximus]

You mean the playoffs the ducks made, with fowler playing significant mins while starting the season off 1-7-2? Whats the jets excuse and before you say bad goaltending ducks goalie was pretty average all season.

Even managed to win the division... but yes fowler would be a good 3rd pairing guy on the jets lol

Well we did actively tank so there is that.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Sigh... no need to trash on each others players.

The main problem in trading for Fowler now (assuming the teams could come to an agreement) is the expansion draft.

With the Trouba situation unresolved we currently still have to protect 4 D spots. So we'd have to give up the assets to acquire Fowler and then not be able protect him (or one of our other D).

If management can't see a way to keep Fowler past the 2 year contract he has then not really a good idea to bring him in regardless of what people think his value is (or isn't).

The expansion draft is likely effecting the way teams do business this year more than we know.

 

[Hunter368]

Sigh... no need to trash on each others players.

The main problem in trading for Fowler now (assuming the teams could come to an agreement) is the expansion draft.

With the Trouba situation unresolved we currently still have to protect 4 D spots. So we'd have to give up the assets to acquire Fowler and then not be able protect him (or one of our other D).

If management can't see a way to keep Fowler past the 2 year contract he has then not really a good idea to bring him in regardless of what people think is value is (or isn't).

The expansion draft is likely effecting the way teams do business this year more than we know.

Correct, more reasons not to trade assets for fowler. Only way I see Jets trading for fowler (not advocating it) is if Trouba is traded for BPA (forward) plus a LHD prospect, Josh fails in his bid of top 4 LHD (to date he's been our best or at worse 2nd best D in preseason), no other better options in the NHL available.....then Jets would give up something to get a two year emergency bridge from fowler (thus return would reflect that, if out bid by someone else so be it, paying more makes no sense).

Jets are protecting Buff, Toby, Myers and Trouba, that's a given.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

I lose braincells reading this thread daily. I need to stop.

 

[Hunter368]

I lose braincells reading this thread daily. I need to stop.

Agreed

 

[heretik27]

I lose braincells reading this thread daily. I need to stop.

Can't be helped when the first post sets everyone off on both sides. No real meaningful discussion was going to come of the pissing contest that arises from a poorly thought out post like that.

 

[Hunter368]

Can't be helped when the first post sets everyone off on both sides. No real meaningful discussion was going to come of the pissing contest that arises from a poorly thought out post like that.

I did have a meaningful chat with a couple major duck fans, I think they understand our position or at least my opinion better. Not saying we agreed on fowler so worth/ability.

Few good chats happened, but not many as you stated.

 

[JetsFan815]

If Fowler is what I kind of think he is (an okay 2-3) than he is still a great price for what he brings.

Fowler and a pick for JVR and some retention still makes a lot of sense to me.

Why would the Leafs trade a solid 2nd line winger for a 5-6 defenceman? Leafs already have the player that people think Fowler is - Gardiner. Gardiner >>>>>> Fowler. Theodore >> Fowler

 

[LuckyDucky]

Why would the Leafs trade a solid 2nd line winger for a 5-6 defenceman? Leafs already have the player that people think Fowler is - Gardiner. Gardiner >>>>>> Fowler. Theodore >> Fowler

Is that why Theo is back down with the Gulls?