Proposal: Fowler for a Jets winger

[JetsFan815]

Jets fans really hate the ducks and fowler. I wonder if it's because Theodore and larsson have surpassed morrisey and they are kinda jealous

No one "hates" the Ducks or Fowler. I see people giving due credit to GOOD Ducks d-men like Lindholm. What Ducks fans fail to see even when repeatedly pointed to them that Fowler's numbers are like that of a bottom pairing d-man. He happens to play above that on your lineup but it doesn't make him better than that.

 

[JetsFan815]

Is that why Theo is back down with the Gulls?

Ducks' poor pro talent assessment is not my problem. These are the same people who are paying Beiksa a ransom for mediocre services and broke the bank for a #7 d-man like Stoner

 

[Sojourn]

Ducks' poor pro talent assessment is not my problem. These are the same people who are paying Beiksa a ransom for mediocre services and broke the bank for a #7 d-man like Stoner

Wow. The arrogance of that statement.

You know better than the professionals, huh? And, apparently, Anaheim fans who have seen far more of both players in Anaheim than you. There is no argument for Theodore ahead of Fowler, based on current play. None. Any argument Theodore has it based on future potential and, really, him being cheaper.

There is no argument for Jacob Larsson ahead of Fowler either, and Larsson has out-played Theodore so far in camp and preseason.

 

[Duck Off]

No one "hates" the Ducks or Fowler. I see people giving due credit to GOOD Ducks d-men like Lindholm. What Ducks fans fail to see even when repeatedly pointed to them that Fowler's numbers are like that of a bottom pairing d-man. He happens to play above that on your lineup but it doesn't make him better than that.

Because we actually watch the player, regularly. We don't just use a few games and stats to pass judgement. Fowler is not a #1 defensdman, but he's easily a 2/3. Advanced stats are a tool, but they're not as meaningful as some think. A jets fan came to our board several times last year and said that Silfverberg's play was consistent all year because his advanced stats indicated so. EVERY duck fan that watched the games consistently would tell you he was a completely different player at the end of the year. Bruce and even Silfverberg said the same thing.

The point is that although stats can be a tool, they are in no way the strongest measurement to evaluate a player. Film, or actually watching the gsmes is the best way to evaluate it. You want to stare at stats and claim Fowler is a #4 or worse, fine; but that's never going to get you anywhere in discussions with Anaheim fans so why even bother?

 

[Sojourn]

Because we actually watch the player, regularly. We don't just use a few games and stats to pass judgement. Fowler is not a #1 defensdman, but he's easily a 2/3. Advanced stats are a tool, but they're not as meaningful as some think. A jets fan came to our board several times last year and said that Silfverberg's play was consistent all year because his advanced stats indicated so. EVERY duck fan that watched the games consistently would tell you he was a completely different player at the end of the year. Bruce and even Silfverberg said the same thing.

The point is that although stats can be a tool, they are in no way the strongest measurement to evaluate a player. Film, or actually watching the gsmes is the best way to evaluate it. You want to stare at stats and claim Fowler is a #4 or worse, fine; but that's never going to get you anywhere in discussions with Anaheim fans so why even bother?

That was him.

JetsFan815 is the one who tried to make that argument. He then proceeded to tell us he was vindicated, 3 months later, after Silfverberg had a 4-point night.

He's the one who tried to tell us that Silfverberg was already a better player than Ryan Kesler. Based on shot metrics. If there is a more condemning argument about his talent evaluation, I have yet to see it.

 

[Duck Off]

That was him.

JetsFan815 is the one who tried to make that argument.

Lmao, of course it was.

That explains a lot then.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Ducks' poor pro talent assessment is not my problem. These are the same people who are paying Beiksa a ransom for mediocre services and broke the bank for a #7 d-man like Stoner

Just like keeping Laine in the NHL when he hasn't looked like he is anywhere ready for NHL speed/rink?

 

[ffh]

Just like keeping Laine in the NHL when he hasn't looked like he is anywhere ready for NHL speed/rink?

How's the salary cap clearing coming along.

 

[Sojourn]

Lmao, of course it was.

That explains a lot then.

Indeed. This isn't about evaluating talent at all. He's already proven that he can't evaluate talent. Or, at least, that his evaluations aren't based on on-ice observations, but what the numbers tell him. No, even that is being generous. It's what he thinks the numbers are telling him.

Silfverberg was one of our best players, not because he was playing well, mind you, but because his shot metrics were good. Oh, right, and he was unlucky because his shooting percentage was lower, and he conveniently ignored the fact that Silfverberg was taking low percentage shots instead of getting to the middle of the ice with the puck.

 

[Duck Off]

Indeed. This isn't about evaluating talent at all. He's already proven that he can't evaluate talent. Or, at least, that his evaluations aren't based on observations, but what the numbers tell him. No, even that is being generous. It's what he thinks the numbers are telling him.

Silfverberg was one of our best players, not because he was playing well, mind you, but because his shot metrics were good. Oh, right, and he was unlucky because his shooting percentage was lower, and he conveniently ignored the fact that Silfverberg was taking low percentage shots instead of getting to the middle of the ice with the puck.

The most ironic thing about that whole thing is he was completely proven wrong, and stunningly, tried to say he was right all along. If anything, the supporters of advanced stats should look at Silfverberg last year. They were the perfect illustration to how misleading they can be.

Silfverberg was bad the majority of the first half of the year. He was still good defensively but he was god awful in the offensive zone. He picked it up the 2nd half, and everyone who watched the games, the coach, and even Silfverberg himself, said he was a different player. Yet his advanced stats remained the same, and the "advanced stats guy" said that them being the same year round somehow proved his point. Denial at its finest.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Why would the Leafs trade a solid 2nd line winger for a 5-6 defenceman? Leafs already have the player that people think Fowler is - Gardiner. Gardiner >>>>>> Fowler. Theodore >> Fowler

Maybe because the leafs are interested in making the playoffs for the first time in what, 12 years?

 

[ScarTroy]

Maybe because the leafs are interested in making the playoffs for the first time in what, 12 years?

Don't forget that one outlier year

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Just like keeping Laine in the NHL when he hasn't looked like he is anywhere ready for NHL speed/rink?

I guarantee you every team in the league would give him 5 - 10 games to get acclimated. Remember that he is 18 and played on large ice his whole life. No need to pass judgement before the season even begins.

 

[JetsHomer]

Just like keeping Laine in the NHL when he hasn't looked like he is anywhere ready for NHL speed/rink?

You haven't watched him play a single game, have you?

 

[Ducks Nation*]

You haven't watched him play a single game, have you?

I caught a Jets preseason game as well as Toronto to check out the top picks

 

[Evil Little]

Christ, it's pissy in here.

 

[JetsHomer]

I caught a Jets preseason game as well as Toronto to check out the top picks

Could you please give us some more impressions on players you seen one time?

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Could you please give us some more impressions on players you seen one time?

I watched him in every wc game as well.... Relying on someone to make a perfect pass for you to one time is not going to work. He had about 2-3 good rushes but no finish. Floats too much.

 

[KingJoffrey]

I guarantee you every team in the league would give him 5 - 10 games to get acclimated. Remember that he is 18 and played on large ice his whole life. No need to pass judgement before the season even begins.

Well some leafs fans throwed their goalie under the bus after two preseason games.

But for Laine it would be better to play couple months in Manitoba. Get him adjusted to small rink. He's not rdy yet to contribute in NHL level. Who knows what kind of beast he can be in Feb, but right now he's not good enough.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Why would the Leafs trade a solid 2nd line winger for a 5-6 defenceman? Leafs already have the player that people think Fowler is - Gardiner. Gardiner >>>>>> Fowler. Theodore >> Fowler

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Jets need defense and Ducks need wingers and need to reduce costs. Would any of these forwards work for Fowler?
Most are less than $1 million cap hit range:

Shawn Matthias $2,300,000
Alexander Burmistrov. $1,550,000
Chris Thorburn $1,200,000
Marko Dano $925,000
Andrew Copp $925,000
Brandon Tanev $925,000
Joel Armia. $894,167
Brendan Lemieux $870,000
Quinton Howden $850,500
Adam Lowry $828,333
Nicolas Petan $758,333
Chase De Leo $720,833
Scott Kosmachuk $720,000
Anthony Peluso $675,000
James Lodge $668,333
JC Lipon

Duck fans have been offering Fowler for Trouba since the summer. No one in Winnipeg has been impressed. Although Trouba<Lindholm, Trouba>Fowler.

It's the non stop amount of Fowler offers that have the Jets fans base thinking he's available, which he could very well be true if Theodore is ready for the big time & considering the cap problems that must be resolved before the Ducks sign Lindholm & Rackell, let alone extend Fowler to the point he has significant trade value.

In the Ducks defence, Mondo's list of forwards all project to play either bottom six minutes or are AHL fodder in 2016-2017. Not one stands out as equal value for Fowler. That being said there are a handful of forwards on this list that may end up with distinguished NHL careers. Many of these forwards are expansion exempt which could play to the Ducks benefit.

At the same time any deal the Jets potentially make for Fowler infers the jets protect 4D & 4F at the expansion draft. If the jets plan to protect a defensemen over any one of the nice array of 3rd year pro's they possess, it better be a defensemen of Trouba's value.

A defensemen like Fowler who's only signed for a single season after expansion is hardly the kind of defensemen worth protecting over 3 forwards unless he's extended. The Ducks can't afford to extend him & also don't want to protect him for the same reason the Jets wouldn't want him.

Some of us Jet's fans are on to you!

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Who is offering fowler for trouba? the ducks cannot afford him and sure as hell do not want to be dealing with another hold out situation

 

[lindholmie]

Wtf who has been offering fowler for trouba? That doesn't even make sense. You realize that the ducks have plenty of D men. Plus they need to sign lindholm. Why would they trade a great asset like fowler for trouba when they need forwards?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Wtf who has been offering fowler for trouba? That doesn't even make sense. You realize that the ducks have plenty of D men. Plus they need to sign lindholm. Why would they trade a great asset like fowler for trouba when they need forwards?

5-6 dman now, his value decreases by the week

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Wtf who has been offering fowler for trouba? That doesn't even make sense. You realize that the ducks have plenty of D men. Plus they need to sign lindholm. Why would they trade a great asset like fowler for trouba when they need forwards?

That's been my point whenever this narrative has been discussed. The Jets need defense, the Ducks require forwards.

What's interesting is the Jets have forwards & the Ducks have defensemen.

I realize the Jets are sour they squandered so many leads to the Ducks in the 2015 playoffs, but Chevy should really be talking to you guys.