Friedman: Flyers willing to discuss almost anyone but Joel Farabee

[Tripod]

Seeing JVR’s name floated, thinking about it I actually like that potential fit given that we finally have cap space.

Veteran guy and we desperately need at minimum 2 top 6 wingers. He’s still productive and could add some juice to our top 6.

What’s the ask for him? It’s obviously less than Konecny given age and cap hit.

i think they would move JVR for a 2nd given his cap.

In reality, he has been exactly as expected since joining the Flyers. We have no reason to just "dump" him for a bad return. I think a 2nd is fair given you get 2 playoff runs from him.

 

[Tripod]

Whats the price on Philippe Myers?

Fletch spoke openly all season how they never replaced Niskanen on the top pair and has said he needs to add a RHD. I don't see a likely scenario where they would move Myers given that they would then have to go find 2 RHD. As you can see, we have lots of lefties.

RHD: Myers, Braun
LHD: Provy, Sanheim, Ghost, Hagg, York, Zamula

 

[Starat327]

Well we tried getting a younger, non-traditional coach with Hakstol and that didn't work either. I don't think the coaching is the problem considering we've had several coaches over the past 5 years and the same core of players has disappointed year after year. On-ice personnel changes are necessary.

Theres nothing I dislike less than context-less catch-all analysis like this. Let's take a look at those 5 years.

For the first three, we were rebuilding. Our highest profile signing was...Dale Weiss? Until Hextalls last year when he grabbed JVR. We traded away Brayden Schenn for pure futures. Hakstol tried utilizing a system that emphasized shots from the point when we had precisely one player (Ghost) who was any good at getting shots near/on the net. Square peg, round hole.

The year after, the Flyers played like legitimate cup contenders during most of the season, strongly utilizing an aggressive 2-1-2 forecheck system, smothering opponents. Until, of course, AV met the mighty non-playoff seeded Canadiens and decided to play dump and chase hockey against a defense that was less agressive and sat back, and speedier forwards. We would dump, the Canadiens low sitting D would get the dump and pass to a small speedy Montreal forward who would walk in on a breakaway. The only thing that kept us in that series was Hart outplaying Price. We then go to a NYI team who are willing to sit back as well, nullify the dump, and then take their time and pick chances. Our brilliant coach thought matching Nate the Great Thompson against Barzal was effective, despite often getting caved to the tune of a sub 20 CF% and A 1:8 HDCF:HDCA ratio. Even Hart couldnt save us from that. I don't don't know if saying round peg square hole is appropriate here. It's like AV just didn't even bring a peg to try and plug in anywhere.

I respect that they tried to bring a non-dinosaur coach first. I was hopeful when Hakstol was hired. But the Flyers organization has effectively wasted the last 5 years of their time by not pushing coaches to utilize what they have instead of trying to mold players into something they weren't. The Flyers don't have grinders. They can't play dump and chase. They have skilled, possession based forwards with defensemen who are very good at activating in the offensive zone to drive play. Stop forcing them to be turrets, and stop forcing the older, slower team to try and beat teams on a rush. Play a game the players can play and you'll have success. They demonstrated it in 19-20, but for some reason, absolutely refuse to go back to it, and I've got nowhere else to point the blame but the coach who thinks he's smarter than everyone else in the room. ( to be clear, the players aren't completely blameless here. Some of their displays were pathetic). Are changes necessary? Sure. But are they going to be effective unless there is a change behind the bench- be it mindset or personnel there, too?- Nope.

 

[SM]

I would throw any combination of Connor, Copp, Heinola, Samberg, Stanley, 18OA to bring in Provorov.

Provorov-DeMelo
Morrissey-Pionk

Would be an incredible improvement over our d pairings from this year.

 

[Evergreen]

Theres nothing I dislike less than context-less catch-all analysis like this. Let's take a look at those 5 years.

For the first three, we were rebuilding. Our highest profile signing was...Dale Weiss? Until Hextalls last year when he grabbed JVR. We traded away Brayden Schenn for pure futures. Hakstol tried utilizing a system that emphasized shots from the point when we had precisely one player (Ghost) who was any good at getting shots near/on the net. Square peg, round hole.

The year after, the Flyers played like legitimate cup contenders during most of the season, strongly utilizing an aggressive 2-1-2 forecheck system, smothering opponents. Until, of course, AV met the mighty non-playoff seeded Canadiens and decided to play dump and chase hockey against a defense that was less agressive and sat back, and speedier forwards. We would dump, the Canadiens low sitting D would get the dump and pass to a small speedy Montreal forward who would walk in on a breakaway. The only thing that kept us in that series was Hart outplaying Price. We then go to a NYI team who are willing to sit back as well, nullify the dump, and then take their time and pick chances. Our brilliant coach thought matching Nate the Great Thompson against Barzal was effective, despite often getting caved to the tune of a sub 20 CF% and A 1:8 HDCF:HDCA ratio. Even Hart couldnt save us from that. I don't don't know if saying round peg square hole is appropriate here. It's like AV just didn't even bring a peg to try and plug in anywhere.

I respect that they tried to bring a non-dinosaur coach first. I was hopeful when Hakstol was hired. But the Flyers organization has effectively wasted the last 5 years of their time by not pushing coaches to utilize what they have instead of trying to mold players into something they weren't. The Flyers don't have grinders. They can't play dump and chase. They have skilled, possession based forwards with defensemen who are very good at activating in the offensive zone to drive play. Stop forcing them to be turrets, and stop forcing the older, slower team to try and beat teams on a rush. Play a game the players can play and you'll have success. They demonstrated it in 19-20, but for some reason, absolutely refuse to go back to it, and I've got nowhere else to point the blame but the coach who thinks he's smarter than everyone else in the room. ( to be clear, the players aren't completely blameless here. Some of their displays were pathetic). Are changes necessary? Sure. But are they going to be effective unless there is a change behind the bench- be it mindset or personnel there, too?- Nope.

The problem with your perspective on things is that it assumes the best way to correct the disconnect between coaching style and on-ice personnel is to keep changing the coach. Maybe we could keep a coach for more than a couple years and instead change out some players to suit his style of play. I’m so sick of sticking with the status quo on the roster and fans just blaming the coach for everything as if the players bear no responsibility for adjusting their style of play. We come out flat almost every game and Giroux doesn’t seem to have a care in the world about the game until we get behind. But for some reason criticizing Giroux is seen as sacrilege on this board particularly.

Guess what? We score 150% more goals in the 3rd period than we do in the 1st. When I see this team in the third period when they are down a goal or two, we look incredible. But in the first period we consistently look awful. This isn't a style of play issue. It's a leadership issue. Could some of this be a problem with the coaches not being able to motivate players? Sure, but when it's a consistent issue over the course of multiple coaching administrations, then I start to think there is a problem with leadership in the room.

 

[Evergreen]

Edit: duplicate.

 

[KingTech]

Kings interested in Flyer left defenseman. Not sure what flyers are interested in ? futures ? please make offers

 

[Pelle31]

Wow, even Provorov?

Provorov is signed for another 5 years, he isn't going anywhere. Same for Couturier, Hart and Farabee. Sanheim I could see since York could replace him. Philly needs to change the culture in the dressing room which starts with getting rid of Giroux and Voracek and making Couturier the captain.

 

[Pelle31]

Tavares
Marner

for

Couts - with extension in place
Konecny
Provorov

No thanks, two players who make $22 million combined. We want guys that can play in the playoffs eventually and Marner isn't one of them for what he makes.

 

[mr4tno]

LOL

You really think we would trade a selke winner in his best years to a rival in the same Division. The flyers would sell the franchise before doing this!

As a Flyers fan, I would do that deal. I know it sounds crazy but his next contract is going to be crippling especially since they will probably extend a 34yo Giroux for $5+MM

 

[Fight4yourRight]

As a Flyers fan, I would do that deal. I know it sounds crazy but his next contract is going to be crippling especially since they will probably extend a 34yo Giroux for $5+MM

No reason to trade within the division when you’d have teams like the Knights making very solid offers.

 

[mr4tno]

i think they would move JVR for a 2nd given his cap.

In reality, he has been exactly as expected since joining the Flyers. We have no reason to just "dump" him for a bad return. I think a 2nd is fair given you get 2 playoff runs from him.

He doesn't get alot of love becaude he is not flashy but JVR has been amazingly consistent throughout his entire career. His AVV is probably a little high but he took less years. Let's face it there are far worse deals out there,

 

[Limeyjim]

They allowed the most goals in the league, all their goalies had sub-.900 save percentages, so was the defense in front of them bad as well? Are the Flyers looking to upgrade on defense?

Yes, they are. The current defense is a combination of hopeful prospects and young players who've been with the team a few years that are prone to make huge mistakes. Carter Hart pretty much had to play defense and goalie at the same time, that's why he was awful last season. The organisation has faith in Hart to bounce back if they can bolster their defensive core with seasoned veteran defensemen in trades. They also need a proven NHL goalie to share the schedule with Hart. Elliot will not be back, as he was not reliable.
The Flyers have put themselves in the situation they are currently dealing with after years of denial concerning the defensive/goaltending side of the game.

 

[Just Linda]

If you've had a really bad season and one thing was positive, you don't trade the positive.

I think you missed the joke

 

[Limeyjim]

Does this mean that JVR's Seattle bound?

Hopefully!

 

[CartographerNo611]

They allowed the most goals in the league, all their goalies had sub-.900 save percentages, so was the defense in front of them bad as well? Are the Flyers looking to upgrade on defense?

Looks like a team not grasping AVs system and over thinking from the games I watched. Every single D-man on that team had poor d positioning which leads me to believe its coaching problem. Then the goalies having zero confidence compounded the issue.

 

[TheKingPin]

just watching the goals given up. The entire skating group forgot even the basics of defense. Major failings of that coach staff.

Horrible coaching. The other teams top threats came at us all year and we couldn’t adjust or stop it as everyone saw with Zibs. The slot was wide open for anyone. Both uncharacteristic for this team. Coaching has to go but they are making it worse...

It's marner

Id love Marner but think we have a lot of obviously lesser wings that are very good still. After Couturier we have very little at center. Couts + Eichel prob gives us the best center depth in the NHL. That plus Hart and the rest makes us a contender imo.

 

[Eaglescapeusa]

What’s philly want from MN for Couturier?

Dumba and Rossi. Sign and trade.

 

[Limeyjim]

The problem with your perspective on things is that it assumes the best way to correct the disconnect between coaching style and on-ice personnel is to keep changing the coach. Maybe we could keep a coach for more than a couple years and instead change out some players to suit his style of play. I’m so sick of sticking with the status quo on the roster and fans just blaming the coach for everything as if the players bear no responsibility for adjusting their style of play. We come out flat almost every game and Giroux doesn’t seem to have a care in the world about the game until we get behind. But for some reason criticizing Giroux is seen as sacrilege on this board particularly.

Guess what? We score 150% more goals in the 3rd period than we do in the 1st. When I see this team in the third period when they are down a goal or two, we look incredible. But in the first period we consistently look awful. This isn't a style of play issue. It's a leadership issue. Could some of this be a problem with the coaches not being able to motivate players? Sure, but when it's a consistent issue over the course of multiple coaching administrations, then I start to think there is a problem with leadership in the room.

Very well put, and absolutely correct. The band wagon fans who constantly take the side of the players (whom I don't think give a bloody damn about anything other than their expansive paychecks) yet the band wagoners constantly show their disdain toward the coaching staff (whomever they are, since the Flyers organisation seems to change coaches as often as they change goalies). Giroux has been the Flyers captain since 2013, has the team been consistent under his leadership? I know he had a decent year last year, but his partners in the "leadership" role did not. One of those leaders took it upon himself to lambast a reporter who had the nerve to criticize his level of play (which was completely honest imho), but the faithful fans support and applaud the obnoxious player for being an insulting prat with an enormous contract with 2 more years.
I get insulted often on this forum for stating my displeasure about the older "leaders" on this team, and probably will get beaten up again for this response, but this franchise has provided very little to the fanbase other than a ridiculous mascot (who resembles the player I cannot stand) a couple years ago who happens to be named for the one thing this current team lacks-grit! Yet every year they start the same bullocks about how this team is contender and the fans buy into it.

 

[Starat327]

The problem with your perspective on things is that it assumes the best way to correct the disconnect between coaching style and on-ice personnel is to keep changing the coach. Maybe we could keep a coach for more than a couple years and instead change out some players to suit his style of play. I’m so sick of sticking with the status quo on the roster and fans just blaming the coach for everything as if the players bear no responsibility for adjusting their style of play. We come out flat almost every game and Giroux doesn’t seem to have a care in the world about the game until we get behind. But for some reason criticizing Giroux is seen as sacrilege on this board particularly.

Guess what? We score 150% more goals in the 3rd period than we do in the 1st. When I see this team in the third period when they are down a goal or two, we look incredible. But in the first period we consistently look awful. This isn't a style of play issue. It's a leadership issue. Could some of this be a problem with the coaches not being able to motivate players? Sure, but when it's a consistent issue over the course of multiple coaching administrations, then I start to think there is a problem with leadership in the room.

I've explained why there are 'consistent issues' over the course of multiple coaches. Ive never claimed any player was above criticism (and even mentioned so in my original post). AV's original system worked. He changed it, and it didnt work, and then he refused to make adjustments. Thats not a player personnel issue, thats a coach playing smartest man in the room issue. Theres quite literally no other way to look at that.

As for the more goals in the third than the first? Awesome. But you cant play ever game at 150%. Maybe we should fix the bigger issue - that the system doesnt work and we are constantly behind vs trying to expect our players to be superhuman and constantly spend the latter parts of every game making up for the poor direction being given from behind the bench.

I dont enjoy changing coaches every few years. I wish we could find one who worked. But its a hell of a lot easier to rebuild a management team than it is an entire roster, and this entire roster is made up of people meant to play a certain way. Good luck tearing it down and rebuilding it from scratch, yet again, for a coach who has already past his shelf life.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

According to some of their fans they have the deepest d in the league and everyone is worth a shit ton.

According to some of their fans, that's every team in the league.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

As a Rangers fan, trust me you don’t want him. Never seen a defenseman play worse than Sanheim in either of the blowout games. Was on ice and pretty much directly responsible for 7 goals in the first 9-0 win. Dude has the tools but is clueless, similar to Hanifin in that sense

Last season Sanheim and Myers were arguably our best pairing. But judge him on TWO games in a season when the entire team stunk.

 

[GuerinUp]

just trade for dumba already fletch. we know you want him, and will overpay for him.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

So far whenever someone asks about any Flyer player it’s either “ more than you want to pay “ or “ only if it’s Eichel level player coming back....
Weird . I thought the Flyers missed the playoffs but apparently everyone on their team is Eichel level and / or off limits .

Eichels team is a perennial playoff powerhouse? Philly sucked last year...but there's some very good pieces there. They certainly aren't picking 1st overall yet again...like Eichels team.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

just trade for dumba already fletch. we know you want him, and will overpay for him.

Sadly you're probably not wrong.

How Fletch builds a team...." Look....Minnesota"