Confirmed with Link: Flyers Trade 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Round Picks For Tony DeAngelo And a 7th (Signs 2x$5M Ext)

[Beef Invictus]

everything is about winning a cup or tear it down, there's no i cant wait for another 5 years in the playoffs, it's either playoffs and cup in the same year or blow it up. i swear even if we get bedard, make the playoffs and we get knocked out, it's trade the whole team and start over.

What

 

[mr4tno]

One of the other problems here is that burning 2nd round picks for 3 years means you can’t do anything at the trade deadline because everyone wants 2nd round picks for their guys. When you don’t have them, your big moves are to trade for Nate Thompson and Derek Grant. At least they get one for Jay O’Brien but that won’t be until 2024. That’s how your get to a win-now mode and you’re signing Lukas Krajicek off the street in the middle of the season and making him a regular.

Well he never wins a trade so not having 2nd round picks is a sort of defense mechanism. Plus he can just throw in a 1st rounder instead. CF want to be the GM all other GM's like....

 

[AdamParrot]

What Ghost? The Ghost of 2017-18 is ancient history.

Current Ghost.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

Losing the media is really hard. They live to suck up to the team. Wow.

Because Comcast essentially controls the media.

there is no such as a legitimate free press in any type of situation.

What Ghost? The Ghost of 2017-18 is ancient history.

Assuming you're correct about Ghost being as bad as you claim.

I'd still rather have Ghost and the treasure trove of picks than deangelo and Risto.

Now, that I think about it.. what was the point of trading Hagg. For years everyone complained about Hagg and wanted an upgrade. THey didn't even upgrade on Hagg's spot.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

When you're building a team, timing is everything. There is a certain point where you're ready to go for it. And you need to put yourself in a position to be able to be bold when that time arises. (for example cap space, or asset depth to acquire an available big talent)

The Flyer's organization/culture doesn't allow them to be patient to wait or build towards that perfect moment.

Some fans here will never understand this basic concept and obviously many sports executives will never understand either..... unfortunately Philladelphia usually has 4 of these executives employed simultaneously.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

Well he never wins a trade so not having 2nd round picks is a sort of defense mechanism. Plus he can just throw in a 1st rounder instead. CF want to be the GM all other GM's like....

Hopefully, we still have a first-round pick during the 2020's after Fletcher is finished

 

[deadhead]

Current Ghost.

DeAngelo >> current Ghost.

DeAngelo is an elite offensive defenseman, he's subpar on defense, but Carlson isn't exactly a defensive force either.
Nor did they pay too much for him, in terms of hockey talent, he's actually a bargain, problem is he's has serious issues that create a high level of risk.

The issue isn't the moves, it's the FO behind the moves, first commit to AV b/c they don't want to buy him out, then fire AV when they realize their mistake, trade and sign for Risto b/c they want to be more physical, then trade and sign for DeAngelo when they realize Ellis can't play and they need a puck moving offensive defenseman.

It's prime Holmgren, reactive moves to try to stay competitive instead of establishing and sticking to a long-term strategy.
Doesn't matter if the GM is Fletcher or Zito or anyone else, until the FO changes any GM will make similar moves.
Because they won't hire a GM who wants to blow it up and rebuild.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

DeAngelo >> current Ghost.

DeAngelo is an elite offensive defenseman, he's subpar on defense, but Carlson isn't exactly a defensive force either.
Nor did they pay too much for him, in terms of hockey talent, he's actually a bargain, problem is he's has serious issues that create a high level of risk.

The issue isn't the moves, it's the FO behind the moves, first commit to AV b/c they don't want to buy him out, then fire AV when they realize their mistake, trade and sign for Risto b/c they want to be more physical, then trade and sign for DeAngelo when they realize Ellis can't play and they need a puck moving offensive defenseman.

It's prime Holmgren, reactive moves to try to stay competitive instead of establishing and sticking to a long-term strategy.
Doesn't matter if the GM is Fletcher or Zito or anyone else, until the FO changes any GM will make similar moves.
Because they won't hire a GM who wants to blow it up and rebuild.

Thank you for articulating why I will continue to not watch any games.... total waste of time.

 

[Hurricane28]

DeAngelo >> current Ghost.

DeAngelo is an elite offensive defenseman, he's subpar on defense, but Carlson isn't exactly a defensive force either.
Nor did they pay too much for him, in terms of hockey talent, he's actually a bargain, problem is he's has serious issues that create a high level of risk.

The issue isn't the moves, it's the FO behind the moves, first commit to AV b/c they don't want to buy him out, then fire AV when they realize their mistake, trade and sign for Risto b/c they want to be more physical, then trade and sign for DeAngelo when they realize Ellis can't play and they need a puck moving offensive defenseman.

It's prime Holmgren, reactive moves to try to stay competitive instead of establishing and sticking to a long-term strategy.
Doesn't matter if the GM is Fletcher or Zito or anyone else, until the FO changes any GM will make similar moves.
Because they won't hire a GM who wants to blow it up and rebuild.

Are the >> worth the cost it took to get Ghost out and get DeAngelo in + sign him? I'm skeptical and I wasn't even Ghost's biggest fan.

 

[Beef Invictus]

DeAngelo >> current Ghost.

DeAngelo is an elite offensive defenseman, he's subpar on defense, but Carlson isn't exactly a defensive force either.
Nor did they pay too much for him, in terms of hockey talent, he's actually a bargain, problem is he's has serious issues that create a high level of risk.

The issue isn't the moves, it's the FO behind the moves, first commit to AV b/c they don't want to buy him out, then fire AV when they realize their mistake, trade and sign for Risto b/c they want to be more physical, then trade and sign for DeAngelo when they realize Ellis can't play and they need a puck moving offensive defenseman.

It's prime Holmgren, reactive moves to try to stay competitive instead of establishing and sticking to a long-term strategy.
Doesn't matter if the GM is Fletcher or Zito or anyone else, until the FO changes any GM will make similar moves.
Because they won't hire a GM who wants to blow it up and rebuild.

I'm thinking back to your claims last summer that Yandle is better than Ghost to determine how much value your assessment of TDA relative to him has. Didn't you also determine that Ristolainen would be better too? Hmm.

This isn't "prime Holmgren." This is what Fletcher has always been. A bad GM who makes bad moves.

 

[Flyerfan18]

Can someone explain to me how the 2nd we traded for Deangelo in 24 is so valuable but the first we got for Giroux has limited value? Yes many of you have so suggested this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Can someone explain to me how the 2nd we traded for Deangelo in 24 is so valuable but the first we got for Giroux has limited value? Yes many of you have so suggested this.

It has poor value relative to Giroux's worth.

This haul is worth more than TDA.

It's simple

 

[Flyerfan18]

It has poor value relative to Giroux's worth.

This haul is worth more than TDA.

It's simple

Nope that’s not it. That’s made up bs. Giroux had a no movement clause. Deangelo had multiple suitors.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

TDA and Gostisbehere’s careers line up fairly well. DeAngelo is clearly better offensively and WAY worse defensively. Their offensive peaks were pretty damn similar with overall peak going to Gostisbehere by a moderate but clear margin.

The problem, just like the Hayes acquisition, is that they bought high right after a career year and are paying based on that continuing. Sensing a pattern. A bad one.

 

[deadhead]

Are the >> worth the cost it took to get Ghost out and get DeAngelo in + sign him? I'm skeptical and I wasn't even Ghost's biggest fan.

They were separate moves in separate situations.
That is, each was reactive but not part of any sort of long-term strategy.
So if they seem disjointed, well, they were.

 

[Rebels57]

Are the >> worth the cost it took to get Ghost out and get DeAngelo in + sign him? I'm skeptical and I wasn't even Ghost's biggest fan.

Skeptical? Its not even debateable lol

Going from Ghost to Racist cost the Flyers

2022 2nd (36th overall) to ARZ
2022 7th to ARZ
2022 4th to CAR
2023 3rd to CAR
2024 2nd to CAR
$500K in cap space for 2022-2023
$5,000,000 in cap space for 2023-2024

And this doesnt even take into consideration not having Ghost in 2021-2022 made the team worse and using his cap space for Risto made them EVEN WORSE and cost EVEN MORE assets.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nope that’s not it. That’s made up bs. Giroux had a no movement clause. Deangelo had multiple suitors.

Well you had it explained to you and you refused to accept it, so I can't help you.

Having multiple suitors doesn't make a flawed player worth that haul, by the way.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They were separate moves in separate situations.
That is, each was reactive but not part of any sort of long-term strategy.
So if they seem disjointed, well, they were.

Is it good management for Fletcher to have no plan at all?

 

[GKJ]

Fiercely debating of who is better between Ghost and DeAngelo, you gotta ask yourself one question?

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

I don’t know that. I do know one thing though, there’s no way DeAngelo to the point where they had to move heaven an earth over the course of a year to get here.

There is no plan. That’s it. There’s nothing further to say. In a years time they could definitely decide that all of this doesn’t work and they trade another draft pick to dump DeAngelo regardless of whether or not they should, because in that time there could be a shiny new toy on the form of a top pair RHD, something they’re clearly willing to move heaven and earth to do at any point.

 

[deadhead]

Is it good management for Fletcher to have no plan at all?

What would it matter if he had a plan? He wouldn't be allowed to execute it.
See Hextall.

 

[Curufinwe]

What Ghost? The Ghost of 2017-18 is ancient history.

He just scored 50 points on the league’s most stripped down team.

You’re not really going to keep up the narrative about how those points don’t count cause Ghost played like a 4th forward while simultaneously saying adding DeAngelo was a good idea are you? Tony D had much better support for his offensive play and fewer defensive responsibilities than Ghost did.

 

[deadhead]

He just scored 50 points on the league’s most stripped down team.

He also had horrid metrics, barely better than Stralman, who was clearly washed up.
Let's see what happens with Ghost this year as Zona has a group of young D-men who'll push him for PT.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Can someone explain to me how the 2nd we traded for Deangelo in 24 is so valuable but the first we got for Giroux has limited value? Yes many of you have so suggested this.

Because they’ve traded their second rounder for three straight years now from 2022-2024. One of them already ended up a top 45 pick & the others are likely trending that way too.

When you look at it in vacuum Fletcher is hemorrhaging draft capital & capspce for a limited team.

DeAngelo wouldn’t necessarily be bad to me from a standalone on the ice with flaws & all there. But when you look at things in a vacuum it makes no sense when you look at previous moves, where the team currently is talent/age/cap wise, etc. Then you add in the added risk that this a guy that’s been booted from multiple teams right now & one fine year on that front Carolina shouldn’t ease that risk.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

They were separate moves in separate situations.
That is, each was reactive but not part of any sort of long-term strategy.
So if they seem disjointed, well, they were.

Hear me out here. I think it's the job of a good front office to think this through both ways and you're both right.

Once you've moved Gostisbehere, it shouldn't matter what it cost you when negotiating a second trade. That guy costs what he costs. But by the same token, they knew when they were paying Arizona to take him that it would cost them roughly X to replace him via whatever their broad plan was.

Self-evaluation is extraordinarily difficult, but someone has got to have looked at the cost of the whole shift and made a decision on its worth. If not immediately, then certainly when you're doing it again the next year.

 

[Curufinwe]

He also had horrid metrics, barely better than Stralman, who was clearly washed up.
Let's see what happens with Ghost this year as Zona has a group of young D-men who'll push him for PT.

His Rel metrics were not dismal at all. You should look at TD’s metrics away from Slavin.