Confirmed with Link: Flyers Trade 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Round Picks For Tony DeAngelo And a 7th (Signs 2x$5M Ext)

[GKJ]

The biggest positive from this trade will be all the Ghost haters tying themselves into knots. Almost definitely going to be more entertaining than the performance of the team.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The biggest positive from this trade will be all the Ghost haters tying themselves into knots. Almost definitely going to be more entertaining than the performance of the team.

I was listening to that Jason Myterus or whatever podcast. He had ASF on. They both claimed DeAngelo is significantly better defensively than Gostisbehere. Then ASF cited raw corsi numbers to somehow prove that DeAngelo was good at preventing corsi against from last with Carolina. He then claimed it was a savvy analytical move by Ian Anderson & the analytics department.

So they’re in for one.

 

[bennysflyers16]

What would it matter if he had a plan? He wouldn't be allowed to execute it.
See Hextall.

How are you related to Chuck ?

 

[Curufinwe]

I was listening to that Jason Myterus or whatever podcast. He had ASF on. They both claimed DeAngelo is significantly better defensively than Gostisbehere. Then ASF cited raw corsi numbers to somehow prove that DeAngelo was good at preventing corsi against. He then claimed it was a savvy analytical by Ian Anderson & the analytics department.

So they’re in for one.

What a pair of clowns.

 

[tucson83]

What

let me rephrase that, you complain about us making moves and you think it wont get us to the cup finals but for some reason you think us getting bedard is going to get us over the hump.

 

[Hurricane28]

Skeptical? Its not even debateable lol

Going from Ghost to Racist cost the Flyers

2022 2nd (36th overall) to ARZ
2022 7th to ARZ
2022 4th to CAR
2023 3rd to CAR
2024 2nd to CAR
$500K in cap space for 2022-2023
$5,000,000 in cap space for 2023-2024

And this doesnt even take into consideration not having Ghost in 2021-2022 made the team worse and using his cap space for Risto made them EVEN WORSE and cost EVEN MORE assets.

View attachment 566989

I was being nice lol

They were separate moves in separate situations.
That is, each was reactive but not part of any sort of long-term strategy.
So if they seem disjointed, well, they were.

They are absolutely related and if you don't think so, you're living in a fantasyland. Less than a year apart from each other.

 

[GKJ]

I was listening to that Jason Myterus or whatever podcast. He had ASF on. They both claimed DeAngelo is significantly better defensively than Gostisbehere. Then ASF cited raw corsi numbers to somehow prove that DeAngelo was good at preventing corsi against from last with Carolina. He then claimed it was a savvy analytical move by Ian Anderson & the analytics department.

So they’re in for one.

They’re only like 12 years behind on analytics

 

[bobbythebrain]

let me rephrase that, you complain about us making moves and you think it wont get us to the cup finals but for some reason you think us getting bedard is going to get us over the hump.

 

[The Rage Kage]

Is it good management for Fletcher to have no plan at all?

Im laughing my ass off here "You can't blame Chuck for bleeding assets, he wasn't making his moves on a long term strategy, what can you expect!"

 

[Beef Invictus]

What would it matter if he had a plan? He wouldn't be allowed to execute it.
See Hextall.

That's not an excuse to not have one.

 

[Beef Invictus]

let me rephrase that, you complain about us making moves and you think it wont get us to the cup finals but for some reason you think us getting bedard is going to get us over the hump.

I have never seen anyone construct ridiculous strawman arguments like you do.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I was being nice lol



They are absolutely related and if you don't think so, you're living in a fantasyland. Less than a year apart from each other.

Replacing Ghost's transition ability with either of Risto or Yandle failed badly. They refuse to see if Zamula could do it, because god forbid you develop anyone that strays outside of a 1999 ideal, and honestly they just don't value transition play anyway. So now they're trying to fix the whole they dug by paying out the nose for TDA.

I'm assured that this management is no different than Sakic's.

 

[flyersnorth]

They’re only like 12 years behind on analytics

Actually, I think they're in heavy on analytics.

They provided the analytics-based evaluation of Risto to Chuck and co prior to re-signing. The analytics showed he was not a very good player.

Chuck chose to ignore the analytics.

At least that's what one Flyers insider claimed after it went down.

So, their analytics are working as they should. The problem is that they are not valued by current decision-makers.

 

[Diaper Mask Bandits]

let me rephrase that, you complain about us making moves and you think it wont get us to the cup finals but for some reason you think us getting bedard is going to get us over the hump.

trying to understand through the absurdity of this comment.......I'm guessing you believe simply "making moves" for anyone who is available is the proper way of constructing a team.

The more moves you make, the better.

Because acquiring players like Deangelo at best is simply making a move to say we did something.... now, that's the best case scenario

 

[GKJ]

Actually, I think they're in heavy on analytics.

They provided the analytics-based evaluation of Risto to Chuck and co prior to re-signing. The analytics showed he was not a very good player.

Chuck chose to ignore the analytics.

At least that's what one Flyers insider claimed after it went down.

So, their analytics are working as they should. The problem is that they are not valued by current decision-makers.

I was talking about that podcast, not Chuck.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Actually, I think they're in heavy on analytics.

They provided the analytics-based evaluation of Risto to Chuck and co prior to re-signing. The analytics showed he was not a very good player.

Chuck chose to ignore the analytics.

At least that's what one Flyers insider claimed after it went down.

So, their analytics are working as they should. The problem is that they are not valued by current decision-makers.

ASF was the one using that data wrong & inferring that’s what the analytic department might have been seeing. He wasn’t framing it as fact. He used the data (incorrectly) then said that’s might have been how the analytic department saw it.

But in reality there really isn’t some great difference between public & private data models in analytics. There can be differences but the variance isn’t crater size. Most models don’t see DeAngelo as negative net player. But most see him as very good offensively & very poor defensively impact wise. Raw results can be team, usage, luck, etc. driven so that’s not what they’d be using.

Charlie talked about Ristolainen back when the extension happened. You’re right that he said the analytic department did not co-sign the initial trade or extension based off their data. Their data painted a picture bit different from every other model that Ristolainen’s not good. But in both instances the hockey people concluded the models were wrong, missing it on Ristolainen, & that he was a necessary piece to the team.

He said they present the data & give their recommendations which usually align with public analytics but it’s to the people above them what they want to do with it.

 

[bobbythebrain]

trying to understand through the absurdity of this comment.......I'm guessing you believe simply "making moves" for anyone who is available is the proper way of constructing a team.

The more moves you make, the better.

Because acquiring players like Deangelo at best is simply making a move to say we did something.... now, that's the best case scenario

Yes, that is exactly it. Happens every summer. Jealous fits over all the moves other teams make, then a bunch Hextall this and Hextall that. It will fade after free agency

 

[Magua]

Im laughing my ass off here "You can't blame Chuck for bleeding assets, he wasn't making his moves on a long term strategy, what can you expect!"

In 13 seasons, split between teams, Fletcher has made more than 7 picks twice (8 selections). That was in 2009, when he inherited a team, and the other was when he picked 3 6th rounders in 2014. In 7/13 drafts, he has taken 6 or less. He has only picked twice in the 1st round one time, with Brodin and (a total bust) Phillips. Twice he has made 4 picks in the top 100. In 3/5 of Hextall's years he drafted twice in the 1st round and made 4+ picks in the top 100. And they weren't even fully rebuilding. 13 years!

The idea that Chuck Fletcher, the most dull as dishwater specimen in the NHL, is secretly a tear down and rebuild type is the stuff of fantasy. Clarke, Holmgren, and Scott weren't overseeing the Wild, as I remember. His entire NHL resume is about slapping on bandaids, having no vision, and taking the path of least resistance to be a 1st round coin flip team. That's Chuck Fletcher.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

In 13 seasons, split between teams, Fletcher has made more than 7 picks twice (8 selections). That was in 2009, when he inherited a team, and the other was when he picked 3 6th rounders in 2014. In 7/13 drafts, he has taken 6 or less. He has only picked twice in the 1st round one time, with Brodin and (a total bust) Phillips. Twice he has made 4 picks in the top 100. In 3/5 of Hextall's years he drafted twice in the 1st round and made 4+ picks in the top 100. And they weren't even fully rebuilding. 13 years!

The idea that Chuck Fletcher, the most dull as dishwater specimen in the NHL, is secretly a tear down and rebuild type is the stuff of fantasy. Clarke, Holmgren, and Scott weren't overseeing the Wild, as I remember. His entire NHL resume is about slapping on bandaids, having no vision, and taking the path of least resistance to be a 1st round coin flip team. That's Chuck Fletcher.

Pretty much the entire league operates under a mandate to be competitive. It’s a gate driven league. It’s not like the NBA where they make their money elsewhere. So owners may be more willing to play the lottery. The teams that play the lottery in the NHL often get there more organically.

So that’s not really an excuse to me. You can still be in a competitive mode & make good moves. It can & has been done before. Fletcher process the entire time has been so flawed even before desperation set in to where we are now. The guy made basically one noticeable impactful on ice move with Niskanen. Process wise it was probably Ellis. You’re talk two 30+ year old defensemen here. Ellis you still invested in a long term high price contract too. Even with those guys & others. Fletcher’s idea of finding “value” was tapping into the 30+ year old market where. He often paid higher prices in cap &/or in assets. On the cheaper you usually ended up with guys like Grant, Yandle, Thompson (twice), etc. who unsurprisingly just flat out sucked here.

 

[trostol]

looking around the social medias..seems more people like it than dont

 

[Beef Invictus]

In 13 seasons, split between teams, Fletcher has made more than 7 picks twice (8 selections). That was in 2009, when he inherited a team, and the other was when he picked 3 6th rounders in 2014. In 7/13 drafts, he has taken 6 or less. He has only picked twice in the 1st round one time, with Brodin and (a total bust) Phillips. Twice he has made 4 picks in the top 100. In 3/5 of Hextall's years he drafted twice in the 1st round and made 4+ picks in the top 100. And they weren't even fully rebuilding. 13 years!

The idea that Chuck Fletcher, the most dull as dishwater specimen in the NHL, is secretly a tear down and rebuild type is the stuff of fantasy. Clarke, Holmgren, and Scott weren't overseeing the Wild, as I remember. His entire NHL resume is about slapping on bandaids, having no vision, and taking the path of least resistance to be a 1st round coin flip team. That's Chuck Fletcher.

I can't believe Hextall did that to him

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

In 13 seasons, split between teams, Fletcher has made more than 7 picks twice (8 selections). That was in 2009, when he inherited a team, and the other was when he picked 3 6th rounders in 2014. In 7/13 drafts, he has taken 6 or less. He has only picked twice in the 1st round one time, with Brodin and (a total bust) Phillips. Twice he has made 4 picks in the top 100. In 3/5 of Hextall's years he drafted twice in the 1st round and made 4+ picks in the top 100. And they weren't even fully rebuilding. 13 years!

The idea that Chuck Fletcher, the most dull as dishwater specimen in the NHL, is secretly a tear down and rebuild type is the stuff of fantasy. Clarke, Holmgren, and Scott weren't overseeing the Wild, as I remember. His entire NHL resume is about slapping on bandaids, having no vision, and taking the path of least resistance to be a 1st round coin flip team. That's Chuck Fletcher.

Yeah but the Avs had two picks this year.

 

[landsbergfan]

ASF was the one using that data wrong & inferring that’s what the analytic department might have been seeing. He wasn’t framing it as fact. He used the data (incorrectly) then said that’s might have been how the analytic department saw it.

But in reality there really isn’t some great difference between public & private data models in analytics. There can be differences but the variance isn’t crater size. Most models don’t see DeAngelo as negative net player. But most see him as very good offensively & very poor defensively impact wise. Raw results can be team, usage, luck, etc. driven so that’s not what they’d be using.

Charlie talked about Ristolainen back when the extension happened. You’re right that he said the analytic department did not co-sign the initial trade or extension based off their data. Their data painted a picture bit different from every other model that Ristolainen’s not good. But in both instances the hockey people concluded the models were wrong, missing it on Ristolainen, & that he was a necessary piece to the team.

He said they present the data & give their recommendations which usually align with public analytics but it’s to the people above them what they want to do with it.

Would be awesome to watch a Rockies style exodus of the analytics department

 

[landsbergfan]

Speaking of Charlie. I thoroughly enjoyed him forgetting to include Provorovs PP Points/60 in his article about the DeAngelo trade

 

[Tripod]

Funny that in 1 calender year, Fletch buys out Ghost, signs Yandle, and trades for and signs TDA.

And and mentioned cap space when buying out Ghost, only to trade and signs TzdA and Risto to more money.

The gift that keeps on giving.