Confirmed with Link: Flyers Trade 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Round Picks For Tony DeAngelo And a 7th (Signs 2x$5M Ext)

[Beef Invictus]

As a GM you have to understand that every move you make, mandated or not, will reflect on your competency, not the team or executives behind you. Dealing with micromanaging owners and quarterly statements that effect the on ice product is part of the job description. You need to find a work around to be successfulㅡmany GMs have. Chuck is barely treading water.

The problem is that you seem to think that Chuck is in the same situation and under the same kind of scrutiny that Hextall was, that he is unable to make the kind of moves that he desires and instead is toeing the company line. That's patently false. After firing Hextall they would never bring someone in who would have to be fought on every move, if that was the case they wouldn't have bothered to fire Hextall. They deliberately brought a guy in who already agreed with them, he didn't have to be convinced. It's not that Chuck is making moves mandated by Clarke and Co, it's that Chuck was only hired because he would choose on his own to make the kind of moves that Clarke and Co want. Chuck is not a victim of upper brass manipulation, he is complicit in it.

Further, Chuck IS upper brass management. Him and his peon Flardo are the entire power structure.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And what makes you think Fletcher's replacement would be any different?

If you don't change the FO, the GM they hire will know what he's expected to do, which is the current FO's bidding.

I mean do you think any candidate who goes into the first interview and says " this is f===g mess, this is what I'd do to fix it" would ever get a second interview?

Other than Risto (and a lot of GMs lust for that kind of D-man, look at what Chariot cost as a rental!), Fletcher's moves taken in isolation are reasonable. The Risto deal is the only one where he even gave a 1st rd pick.

But the pattern is that a FO that has deluded itself into thinking they're one or two moves and a little luck from going deep into the playoffs.

If the Flyers were a 100 point team that just found out that Ellis is probably out for the season, the TDA trade makes sense, a gamble but the kind that teams that are contenders make all the time. But even when you account for injury bad luck, the Flyers are an 85-90 point team, and those kinds of teams shouldn't take these kinds of gambles.

Fletcher's moves are routinely not reasonable even in isolation.

If only Risto was his only mistake, and not one major mistake in a relentless onslaught of obvious mistakes.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Fletcher's moves are routinely not reasonable even in isolation.

If only Risto was his only mistake, and not one major mistake in a relentless onslaught of obvious mistakes.

I just went through all of our transactions since 2019 until now

It's a wasteland of lost value with nothing in return.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Further, Chuck IS upper brass management.

President, Hockey Operations & General Manager, Alternate Governor

The only higher position is Scott, who technically is with Comcast Spectacor.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Benny from the Bronx could take him out.

 

[Beef Invictus]

President, Hockey Operations & General Manager, Alternate Governor

The only higher position is Scott, who technically is with Comcast Spectacor.

Ed Snider is the only person in Flyers history with more potential direct power and influence on hockey operations.

Allen once was GM and VP at the end of his tenure. That's the only person who has ever held comparable power. As a WFT fan I'm intimately aware of how terrible things go fast when you consolidate all this power into one person who is at best unremarkable.

It minimizes any chance of someone having a good idea.

 

[Winston Wolf]

Already saw a guy on the street wearing a DeAngelo Flyers’ shirsey today.

 

[mja]

So very many words, so many bizarre fantastical narratives, all just to avoid admitting he's wrong.

 

[1865]

we do not have a window lol they are making this shit up as they go

Course he is. The man's an imbecile but if he's going to try and win stuff then this isn't his worst move. TDA isn't a bad player and there's signs he's sorted his head out too.

 

[flyersnorth]

I just went through all of our transactions since 2019 until now

It's a wasteland of lost value with nothing in return.

How many of these would an outsider consider as solid moves?
(source List of All Chuck Fletcher Trades in Philadelphia)

It's downright discouraging to read through this list. Even the few moves that were ok or good (Niskanen, Ellis) just did not work out.

Everything this man touches turns to crap. It's unbelievable really.

1/11/19- Jacob Graves and 2019 sixth round pick (Roddy Ross) for Jordan Weal
1/17/19- Justin Bailey for Taylor Leier
2/11/19- David Schlemko and Byron Froese for Dale Weise and Christian Folin
2/16/19- Cam Talbot for Anthony Stolarz
2/25/19 - Ryan Hartman and 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) for Wayne Simmonds
6/3/19 - Rights to Kevin Hayes for 2019 fifth round pick (Harrison Blaisdell)
6/14/19- Matt Niskanen for Radko Gudas
6/18/19- Justin Braun for 2019 second round pick (Kaeden Korczak) and 2020 third round pick (Maxim Groshev)
6/24/19- Tyler Pitlick for Ryan Hartman
2/19/20- futures for J.F. Berube
2/24/20- Nathan Noel for T.J. Brennan
2/24/20- Derek Grant for 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) and Kyle Criscuolo
2/24/20- Nate Thompson for 2021 fifth round pick (Danii Sobolev)
7/17/21- Ryan Ellis for Phil Myers and Nolan Patrick
7/22/21- salary dump for Shayne Gostisbehere, 2022 second round pick and 2022 seventh round pick
7/23/21- Rasmus Ristolainen for Robert Hagg, 2021 first round pick (Isak Rosen) and 2023 second round pick
7/24/21- Cam Atkinson for Jake Voracek
3/19/22- Owen Tippett, 2024 first round pick and 2023 first round pick for Claude Giroux, Connor Bunnaman, German Rubtsov and a 2024 fifth round pick
3/21/22- 2023 third round pick for Justin Braun
3/21/22- 2023 fourth round pick for Derick Brassard
7/8/22- Tony DeAngelo and a 2022 seventh round pick (Alexis Gendron) for 2022 fourth round pick (Simon Forsmark), 2023 third round pick and a 2024 second round pick.

 

[Beef Invictus]

How many of these would an outsider consider as solid moves?
(source List of All Chuck Fletcher Trades in Philadelphia)

It's downright discouraging to read through this list. Even the few moves that were ok or good (Niskanen, Ellis) just did not work out.

Everything this man touches turns to crap. It's unbelievable really.

1/11/19- Jacob Graves and 2019 sixth round pick (Roddy Ross) for Jordan Weal
1/17/19- Justin Bailey for Taylor Leier
2/11/19- David Schlemko and Byron Froese for Dale Weise and Christian Folin
2/16/19- Cam Talbot for Anthony Stolarz
2/25/19 - Ryan Hartman and 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) for Wayne Simmonds
6/3/19 - Rights to Kevin Hayes for 2019 fifth round pick (Harrison Blaisdell)
6/14/19- Matt Niskanen for Radko Gudas
6/18/19- Justin Braun for 2019 second round pick (Kaeden Korczak) and 2020 third round pick (Maxim Groshev)
6/24/19- Tyler Pitlick for Ryan Hartman
2/19/20- futures for J.F. Berube
2/24/20- Nathan Noel for T.J. Brennan
2/24/20- Derek Grant for 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) and Kyle Criscuolo
2/24/20- Nate Thompson for 2021 fifth round pick (Danii Sobolev)
7/17/21- Ryan Ellis for Phil Myers and Nolan Patrick
7/22/21- salary dump for Shayne Gostisbehere, 2022 second round pick and 2022 seventh round pick
7/23/21- Rasmus Ristolainen for Robert Hagg, 2021 first round pick (Isak Rosen) and 2023 second round pick
7/24/21- Cam Atkinson for Jake Voracek
3/19/22- Owen Tippett, 2024 first round pick and 2023 first round pick for Claude Giroux, Connor Bunnaman, German Rubtsov and a 2024 fifth round pick
3/21/22- 2023 third round pick for Justin Braun
3/21/22- 2023 fourth round pick for Derick Brassard
7/8/22- Tony DeAngelo and a 2022 seventh round pick (Alexis Gendron) for 2022 fourth round pick (Simon Forsmark), 2023 third round pick and a 2024 second round pick.

And this kind of underwhelming shuffling went on in Minnesota too. Can't blame the advisors for that. This is just what he is.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

2/25/19 - Ryan Hartman and 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) for Wayne Simmonds

I really thought someone was going to make the case that the Simmonds trade was actually good because Hartman randomly went nuts in his Age 27 season. It’s always possible that I just didn’t see it, but I like to watch for those things because it speaks to who and who doesn’t pay attention to the rest of the league. If you only have hockey opinions when these guys come to the Flyers, it’s pretty damn telling.

Plus the idea that he did it in Minnesota is hilarious. He would have lead the Flyers in scoring by 13 Points las year. 13!

 

[Tripod]

It's pretty unbelievable that we went from Ghost and Hagg to TDA and Risto, and it took:

A 1st, three 2nd's, 3rd, 4th, 7th.

Simply amazing.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

It's pretty unbelievable that we went from Ghost and Hagg to TDA and Risto, and it took:

A 1st, three 2nd's, 3rd, 4th, 7th.

Simply amazing.

Surely one of our cowardly beats can put this to Cuck, in the same simple terms, and ask whether this is good management for a bottom 5 team, at the next conference?

 

[flyersnorth]

I really thought someone was going to make the case that the Simmonds trade was actually good because Hartman randomly went nuts in his Age 27 season. It’s always possible that I just didn’t see it, but I like to watch for those things because it speaks to who and who doesn’t pay attention to the rest of the league. If you only have hockey opinions when these guys come to the Flyers, it’s pretty damn telling.

Plus the idea that he did it in Minnesota is hilarious. He would have lead the Flyers in scoring by 13 Points las year. 13!

I didn't mind Hartman when he was here, and was kinda surprised they traded him for Pitlick. I enjoyed Pitlick too, just thought it was a curious trade at the time.

In the list above, I'd say there were 4 good trades:
Niskanen for Gudas
Braun for a 2nd, 3rd (plus he offloaded him to recoup a few picks, albeit lower rounds)
Ellis for Patrick and Myers
Atkinson for Voracek

Only Braun and Atkinson worked out.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Haven't back read but I think I just scared myself in reading the RFA compensation for the contract TDA got.

First and a third the next season vs fourth this season, third next season and 2nd the following. I hate to say it but the trade was better than signing him as a RFA which we all can bet Chucklefbrain would have done.

Don't think I mean to defend this crap deal because I hate it either way.

 

[deadhead]

How many of these would an outsider consider as solid moves?
(source List of All Chuck Fletcher Trades in Philadelphia)

It's downright discouraging to read through this list. Even the few moves that were ok or good (Niskanen, Ellis) just did not work out.

Everything this man touches turns to crap. It's unbelievable really.

1/11/19- Jacob Graves and 2019 sixth round pick (Roddy Ross) for Jordan Weal
1/17/19- Justin Bailey for Taylor Leier
2/11/19- David Schlemko and Byron Froese for Dale Weise and Christian Folin
2/16/19- Cam Talbot for Anthony Stolarz
2/25/19 - Ryan Hartman and 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) for Wayne Simmonds
6/3/19 - Rights to Kevin Hayes for 2019 fifth round pick (Harrison Blaisdell)
6/14/19- Matt Niskanen for Radko Gudas
6/18/19- Justin Braun for 2019 second round pick (Kaeden Korczak) and 2020 third round pick (Maxim Groshev)
6/24/19- Tyler Pitlick for Ryan Hartman
2/19/20- futures for J.F. Berube
2/24/20- Nathan Noel for T.J. Brennan
2/24/20- Derek Grant for 2020 fourth round pick (Thimo Nickl) and Kyle Criscuolo
2/24/20- Nate Thompson for 2021 fifth round pick (Danii Sobolev)
7/17/21- Ryan Ellis for Phil Myers and Nolan Patrick
7/22/21- salary dump for Shayne Gostisbehere, 2022 second round pick and 2022 seventh round pick
7/23/21- Rasmus Ristolainen for Robert Hagg, 2021 first round pick (Isak Rosen) and 2023 second round pick
7/24/21- Cam Atkinson for Jake Voracek
3/19/22- Owen Tippett, 2024 first round pick and 2023 first round pick for Claude Giroux, Connor Bunnaman, German Rubtsov and a 2024 fifth round pick
3/21/22- 2023 third round pick for Justin Braun
3/21/22- 2023 fourth round pick for Derick Brassard
7/8/22- Tony DeAngelo and a 2022 seventh round pick (Alexis Gendron) for 2022 fourth round pick (Simon Forsmark), 2023 third round pick and a 2024 second round pick.

Take out the Risto deal and there really is no deal where he lost value. Though no deal where he got a steal, either.
But there are few one sided trades, the ones that are stand out for that reason.

Atkinson for Voracek? Draw.
G for Tippett, 1st rd, 3rd - typical return on a 34 year old veteran rental
DeAngelo, ignoring his off ice behavior, cheap price for a 26 year old top 3 scoring D-man
Talbot for Stolarz was pending UFA for pending UFA
And so on.

It's not the actual trades that are the problem it's the underlying lack of a long-term strategy that should motivate those trades.

 

[flyersnorth]

Take out the Risto deal and there really is no deal where he lost value. Though no deal where he got a steal, either.
But there are few one sided trades, the ones that are stand out for that reason.

Atkinson for Voracek? Draw.
G for Tippett, 1st rd, 3rd - typical return on a 34 year old veteran rental
DeAngelo, ignoring his off ice behavior, cheap price for a 26 year old top 3 scoring D-man
Talbot for Stolarz was pending UFA for pending UFA
And so on.

It's not the actual trades that are the problem it's the underlying lack of a long-term strategy that should motivate those trades.

To each his own. I'm not interested in changing anyone's mind. If you're happy with the state and direction of the team, you get to enjoy it.

From my perspective? Fletcher is not a good GM, and the Flyers have been near unwatchable for a decade. I'm not interested in watching any other hockey or sports, so really, when they Flyers aren't good, there's no hockey entertainment for me to be had.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Take out the Risto deal and there really is no deal where he lost value. Though no deal where he got a steal, either.
But there are few one sided trades, the ones that are stand out for that reason.

Atkinson for Voracek? Draw.
G for Tippett, 1st rd, 3rd - typical return on a 34 year old veteran rental
DeAngelo, ignoring his off ice behavior, cheap price for a 26 year old top 3 scoring D-man
Talbot for Stolarz was pending UFA for pending UFA
And so on.

It's not the actual trades that are the problem it's the underlying lack of a long-term strategy that should motivate those trades.

I mean sure, if you delete the deals where he lost value and then pretend other deals where he lost value weren't losses, things look great. But that's not reality.

If Fletcher had only made the one mistake since 2018 then he'd be the best GM in the league and the Flyers would be far better than when he took over instead of far worse. He isn't the best GM in the league and the team is indeed far worse, so clearly he has been losing somewhere, yeah?

 

[Cootsfanclub]

Take out the Risto deal and there really is no deal where he lost value. Though no deal where he got a steal, either.
But there are few one sided trades, the ones that are stand out for that reason.

Atkinson for Voracek? Draw.
G for Tippett, 1st rd, 3rd - typical return on a 34 year old veteran rental
DeAngelo, ignoring his off ice behavior, cheap price for a 26 year old top 3 scoring D-man
Talbot for Stolarz was pending UFA for pending UFA
And so on.

It's not the actual trades that are the problem it's the underlying lack of a long-term strategy that should motivate those trades.

He paid a team to take a Dman with 51 points last season.

 

[Cody Webster]

He paid a team to take a Dman with 51 points last season.

Just to pay another team 3 more draft picks to get a similar player with the same amount of points last year

 

[Larry44]

It's pretty unbelievable that we went from Ghost and Hagg to TDA and Risto, and it took:

A 1st, three 2nd's, 3rd, 4th, 7th.

Simply amazing.

And Ghost and Hagg are better players. Oh, but I forgot pandering to the Italian community in Philly and getting players that acted in Vikings....

 

[deadhead]

2023 3rd round pick (PHI) [Conditional]*

*Conditions: CAR will receive the lowest of PHI/FLA/NYR 3rd round pick in 2023 draft.

 

[Hurricane28]

From that list, i see one good trade. Niskanen. There are some that are pushes at best (Atkinson/Voracek). Chuck is best at losing a negotiation

 

[Cody Webster]

2023 3rd round pick (PHI) [Conditional]*

*Conditions: CAR will receive the lowest of PHI/FLA/NYR 3rd round pick in 2023 draft.

Oh, that makes it better