Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[kilowatt]

Best grilled cheese I've ever made: bacon, smoked gouda, Granny Smith apple.

Reported

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Up next on "what can we talk about if we can't speculate": is a hot dog a sandwich?

It is considered an open face sandwich

 

[Rich Nixon]

Understandable, but welcome to planet Earth.

With all the horrible things that happen on our planet, the loss of an idol is a wet dream compared to many other alternatives that people face.

It could just as easily be a good learning moment for the child.

My first writing beat was covering journalist murders in the Mexican drug war, so you don't really need to "welcome to Earth" me, friend. Things can be shitty and unfortunate in their own contexts, however.

 

[Larry44]

In theory, true. In practice, false. Prosecutors tend to be very conservative in charging decisions, especially in high profile cases, and almost never bring charges in major public matters unless they have overwhelming evidence.

This is correct. Especially in this kind of high profile case, prosecutors are very conservative. No charges unless 99% chance of conviction, just like the U.S. DOJ's 99+% conviction rate. Our Crown attorneys are appointed, not elected, so they don't have to pander to voters like DAs up for election. They have multiple witnesses and other evidence (texts, emails, etc.) showing the players trying to cover it up/pressure her to drop it.

I have to assume the players will negotiate a plea bargain for reduced sentences and to avoid a public retelling of what they did, which will ruin their reputations forever. and, even worse, traumatize her again. We'll see.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Hahahaha sheesh I'm trying to quit the mod job I have now! But it is *FAR* less complaining here than there. Some 200 people there and 10 will freak out and say they're leaving if I lock a thread. Here at least people just move on

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Reported

 

[4thline]

What was the law in 2018? Serious question.

In the video she says she's sober (according to the lawyer).

If that transcript is accurate she said that she's sober like a very drunk person would.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

It is considered an open face sandwich

There is nothing more emasculating than trying to eat a proper fully-loaded open-face sandwich. Just put a damn top on it.

 

[Zirakzigil]

It is considered an open face sandwich

Odd... I consider it a hotdog.

 

[AlphaLackey]

You can't put ham in grilled cheese, you fascist.

Hie ye the f*** on outta here with your woke filling.

 

[WingsFan95]

Be interesting to see, I'm sure the Crown Prosecutor has approved charges and agreed upon release conditions. In Canada most people are not afforded the right to leave the country when pending serious charges....as well as the USA often will not allow entry to the states if pending charges. Especially sexual assault charges.

So could any of the 5 playing hockey elsewhere have this be the end of their hockey season/career.

Rightfully so if the allegations are true, but also innocent until proven guilty.

Now after the names are publicly known I found it legally fascinating to have an accused be physically in Europe and therefore theoretically capable of running.

Yes I know, but I'm saying it's legally fascinating since these type of situations are rare. There are many examples of accused attempting or successfully leaving the country before they are charged, but not ALREADY out of the country and in such a place as Europe where Switzerland is part of the Schengen area and therefore no passport checks within that zone. Also assuming some savings it's not hard to get documents to leave the Schengen area as it's typically harder to enter it. Extradition exists of course but it's a lengthier process especially if not a manhunt type situation.

Basically as a Canadian citizen you'd be given the opportunity to get back into the country and surrender yourself. Failing to do that you'd have at least some time before motions are filed with local authorities in whatever country you're in and then it all depends on international relations. Roman Polanski is often the go to citation for this but most people forget he had both French and Polish citizenship and the simple fact was France does not extradite its own citizens. So in cases where a foreign citizen is in effect on a temporary visa, they would have to "disappear" as the one big thing the Canadian government COULD do is put a freeze on their passport. Again, it's a legal fascinating situation but to be honest the expected sentencing for sexual assault in Canada is between 6-24 months.

That's right. The actor playing Hyde on that 70s Show recently got 30-Life in the USA. So to be honest even if all 5 of these accused are found guilty they won't serve more than 2 years and could very feasibly only serve 6 months in a plea.

 

[al secord]

I can't believe this thread made me hungry. I need help. Or a Montecristo sandwich.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Can we do the pineapple on pizza discussion next or was that one already solved?

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Hie ye the f*** on outta here with your woke filling.

Can I offer you an open-face tofu avocado sandwich? To be honest it actually looks good, but that's easily ending up down the front of me.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Can we do the pineapple on pizza discussion next or was that one already solved?

Already solved. The Italians said no.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Keeping it specific to the London case(if you can get off your soapbox for just a second), when was the last time we've heard of 7-8 Women Hockey Players taking a drunken guy up to their rooms, then having repeated sex with him. Also throw in asking him to shower afterwards, and sign a consent form, while they loomed over him, as a group.

The answer is, it doesn't happen! Quit pretending that it does.

Man and woman meet up at a party.
Man and woman get comparably intoxicated
Man and women ostensibly consent to sex
Man and woman both found to be statutorily incapable of consenting to sex.

Other than your own biases, can you think of a single reason why this case should result in the man and the man alone being charged with statutory rape, based on the premise that only the man must secure consent from women and not the other way around?

And if you think "it doesn't happen", my God, have you not been on a college campus before? Or seen one before?

Yes, if all parties are comparably intoxicated, and all parties are ostensibly consenting, your sexist double standards are not enough to justify charging the man and only the man with sexual assault.

And yes, please pardon me if I'm on a soapbox a touch, in light of some double standards that keep rearing their ugly head.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

A charge means they've gathered evidence. Of course it changes things. What an ignorant comment.

Yeah it's really the fans that have it the worst here and not the victim. Hopefully clubs will be able to step up and cover the costs of fans getting professional support following their trauma.

I'm not sure the comment you're replying to was trying to be mutually exclusive.

Obviously the primary concern is the victim who, assuming charges are accurate, went through a terribly traumatic experience that often has long term ramifications and can take a lot of work and processing to learn to live with/create a life around.

It doesn't minimize that significance to say that it's also quite heartbreaking for the people who have been cheering on these players and developed feelings of admiration for them.

Think of how you would feel if your favourite player (whether now or in the past) turned out to be guilty of an objectively horrendous act?

You wouldn't be the main victim as a heartbroken fan. But we can acknowledge that it would hurt, no?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I really wanted to avoid this thread like the plague but this is a question I had and didn't know where to ask. So thanks for engaging, so now I'll ask.

Question(s); Can a team terminate a contract in these circumstances? Is it on a contract to contract basis based on what clauses are in the contract? Is there something the NHLPA can do? Is there an agreement between the league and the players in these types of circumstances?

Can a team terminate a contract in these circumstances? I supposed it could.

Will it stand up to a grievance by the NHLPA? Probably not, but that's why each side has lawyers.

What clauses in the contract might apply? Probably paragraph 2(e) of the Standard Player Contract, which is where I would assume the NHLPA would object, arguing (1) for players who were not under contract when the conduct in question occurred, no SPC applied and thus a current SPC cannot be retroactively applied to it, and (2) even for players signed to a SPC at the time the conduct in question occurred, such SPC has now expired and the player's current SPC cannot be retroactively applied to actions that occurred before the current SPC was signed.

Is there an agreement for these types of circumstances? No, because (1) every circumstance is different, and (2) there's no "good" way to write an agreement that could possibly cover all conceivable circumstances without creating more issues / would be unduly unfair to either side.

The bigger question is what happens if the Commissioner moves to suspend any player while the process plays out. The "best" example here is when Ian Cole was accused of sexually abusing a minor; the Lightning suspended Cole, an investigation took place, and Cole was reinstated once the investigation showed the claims were false could not be substantiated. And in that case, Cole received his full pay while suspended - but I can't recall if he got paid while suspended or it was retroactive after he was reinstated. My guess is that players could [would] be suspended pending resolution of the case, and the question to be resolved is if it's with pay or not and how any guilty verdict might impact any pay received. That last part, I won't take a guess on at the moment.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Can I offer you an open-face tofu avocado sandwich? To be honest it actually looks good, but that's easily ending up down the front of me.

Don't start with me, zoomer. That's not a sandwich, that's a midnight snack for your pet rabbits.

That there is what is eaten by the things that should be eaten.

(Insert tale of Ron Swanson "Turf 'n Turf" dinner here)

Not surprising. Not surprising in the slightest. The addition of ham clearly turns the sandwich from a grilled cheese into a melt and I will [redacted] any [pejorative slur] who says otherwise and if anyone has anything else to say about that I will [this portion of the comment removed by the Hockey's Future legal team].

And now to make this political: in the words of a US President of my lifetime: "[Expletive Deleted]"

 

[canuckslover10]

Anyone know where I can find details of the case cause tbh idk which source to trust on Google.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Except that it will be fairly obvious when their contracts are terminated.

No one is getting their contract terminated before this gets to a court room and a verdict is handed down.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Anyone know where I can find details of the case cause tbh idk which source to trust on Google.

I believe CTV ran with the story first/the most.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

Up next on "what can we talk about if we can't speculate": is a hot dog a sandwich?

It's a taco.

 

[Czechboy]

So I guess that Dube is not a hero for acknowledging his mental health and doing something about it?

Bell let's talk day and using mental health as a reason to go to visit the London police.... Classy.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Up next on "what can we talk about if we can't speculate": is a hot dog a sandwich?

I was at a gourmet burger place and decided to try a bacon cheeseburger with peanut butter. Delicious, but philosophically I didn't know what to think