First look at the All or Nothing Amazon Prime show

[Anthrax442]

Started watching.. Steve Dangle 10 seconds in. Turned off.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Sure showed that other coaches opinions were not respected. Sadly. Loved Jumbo comment of we are a first play team. He was basicially stating coach you are over reacting. The others sat there tuning him out. So many tirades in a short season.

no coaches spoke other then Goalie coach who was told to F off.

I thought that was an awful comment by jumbo and probably a good indication as to why his shart teams choked so often come playoff time, too comfortable being good and not pushing to be great.
As for Keefe, telling Briere to stfu was also the right move, I distinctly remember the exact same conversations here. “But it deflected what’s Freddie supposed to do?”
Make a f’n save.
This series did one thing IMO, it showed us the right guys are in charge, and with the right mix of players we will see good things in the future.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

They are complacent. They didn't like that Keefe was giving them a hard time even after wins but don't see his reasoning. This team has many times shown that they outscore their problems until the offense dries up and then you are just left with a complete mess of a game. Keefe is just trying to show them that they are falling back into old bad habits that we can't have again come playoff time and instead they just brush it off as him overthinking things and who cares how we look as long as we're winning.

I think this has been our problem for quite a few years now. I had alarm bells going off when they lost to the Canucks after they were off for 2 weeks + with covid. They just thought they would have an easy game as they too often revert to more often than not.

I really believe that management just realized we can have a bunch of Jumbo's and Spezza's and it wouldn't make a difference because they really don't want to listen in a way. They need to dig out of this mindset by themselves at this point. That's why I think instead of just giving them more guys to inspire them ( Jumbo, Spezza etc) they decided to give them some players that will drag them into the fight effort wise (Bunting, Kampf...even Ritchie) and lead them that way.

I honestly believe that had Fred not shit the bed in the first game 7 against Boston going into the 3rd with a lead....we would never have had any demons...it's something that festered from that 3rd period and every time we are in a tight situation...they look around to see who is going to mess up this time. Dermy did it in game 5...Gally in game 6 and then they are paralyzed with fear in game 7...it's so ingrained that the luck will go against them they don't know what to do.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Started watching.. Steve Dangle 10 seconds in. Turned off.

Now that’s sure giving something a fair shake. Dangles annoying and I consume literally 0 of his content, but I’d never turn off what amounts to 3 hours of programming over a ten second clip during the opening montage showing how wide and all consuming leafs nation is.

 

[Anthrax442]

Not that’s sure giving something a fair shake. Dangles annoying and I consume literally 0 of his content, but I’d never turn off what amounts to 3 hours of programming over a ten second clip during the opening montage showing how wide and all consuming leafs nation is.

at that moment it was like nails on chalk board, i wasnt ready for that. i will circle back to it, when im more prepared.

 

[Nylanderthal]

at that moment it was like nails on chalk board, i wasnt ready for that. i will circle back to it, when im more prepared.

He only pops up when they show a montage… eg when they trade for foligno at the deadline they show a bunch of tweets and some clips of reactions and radio analysis and dangles mixed in there, but it’s not like he’s throughout the series. You’ll be fine

 

[Anthrax442]

He only pops up when they show a montage eg when they trade for foligno at the deadline they show a bunch of tweets and some clips of reactions and radio analysis and dangles mixed in there, but it’s not like he’s throughout the series. You’ll be fine

Thanks for the warning

 

[3blizzard4]

I also found lack of true leadership in the locker room. Sure there was lots of clown play. But when it mattered I only remember Spezza talking up and talking to the group. Very briefly. Butnit wasn’t even rah rah kick you in the butt type of talk either.

where was Simmonds and Thornton in that game 6 or game 7 in the locker room? What about Matthews and Marner? You could hear a pin drop. If it was t Keefe talking and swearing, really no players took the bill by the horns in that locker room.

you don’t need a letter on your jersey to speak up or show some anger to rally the guys up. Matthews was rumoured to get the C a couple
Of years ago. Not exactly a vocal guy.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I also found lack of true leadership in the locker room. Sure there was lots of clown play. But when it mattered I only remember Spezza talking up and talking to the group. Very briefly. Butnit wasn’t even rah rah kick you in the butt type of talk either.

where was Simmonds and Thornton in that game 6 or game 7 in the locker room? What about Matthews and Marner? You could hear a pin drop. If it was t Keefe talking and swearing, really no players took the bill by the horns in that locker room.

you don’t need a letter on your jersey to speak up or show some anger to rally the guys up. Matthews was rumoured to get the C a couple
Of years ago. Not exactly a vocal guy.

Jumbo was too busy telling the boys they’re some of the most talented players in the league, so it’s all okay. It was pretty clear early into the series that he wasn’t bringing what they had hoped for off ice, let alone how brutal he was on the ice.
I thought they showed a couple of good clips of JT doing just that. When they came out flat vs Calgary it was him that spoke up and gave the boys a shake. I think they missed him more than led on in that Montreal series both on and off ice.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Completely agree. The same core hasn't got the job done 5 years straight in the first round and they were all winnable series that this team can't seem to close out. Sure there have been questionable coaching decisions here and there but in the end it's the players job to perform at a high and consistent level.

I've only watched 3 episodes so far and its already confirmed for me that its the character of our star players that is the problem. They are complacent. They didn't like that Keefe was giving them a hard time even after wins but don't see his reasoning. This team has many times shown that they outscore their problems until the offense dries up and then you are just left with a complete mess of a game. Keefe is just trying to show them that they are falling back into old bad habits that we can't have again come playoff time and instead they just brush it off as him overthinking things and who cares how we look as long as we're winning. Its an immature attitude that I wish the veterans like Jumbo would be on their case about. Matthews is not ready for captaincy imo.

I found that Jumbo was the loudest one WRT the team being “good enough” to compete. That’s probably why they weren’t interested in bringing him back. Interestingly they were more than happy to bring spezz and simmer back. Those two get it, jumbo doesn’t.

 

[Gabriel426]

I also found lack of true leadership in the locker room. Sure there was lots of clown play. But when it mattered I only remember Spezza talking up and talking to the group. Very briefly. Butnit wasn’t even rah rah kick you in the butt type of talk either.

where was Simmonds and Thornton in that game 6 or game 7 in the locker room? What about Matthews and Marner? You could hear a pin drop. If it was t Keefe talking and swearing, really no players took the bill by the horns in that locker room.

you don’t need a letter on your jersey to speak up or show some anger to rally the guys up. Matthews was rumoured to get the C a couple
Of years ago. Not exactly a vocal guy.

Foligno also spoke up.
I almost cried when Spezza spoke about the 20mins thing since I know what happened.

 

[Gabriel426]

Jumbo was too busy telling the boys they’re some of the most talented players in the league, so it’s all okay. It was pretty clear early into the series that he wasn’t bringing what they had hoped for off ice, let alone how brutal he was on the ice.
I thought they showed a couple of good clips of JT doing just that. When they came out flat vs Calgary it was him that spoke up and gave the boys a shake. I think they missed him more than led on in that Montreal series both on and off ice.

Jumbo looked like a huge joke backstage. I can see the humour side of it but you are a vet and bought in for leadership, he certainly didn’t act like it

 

[Apex Predator]

Jumbo looked like a huge joke backstage. I can see the humour side of it but you are a vet and bought in for leadership, he certainly didn’t act like it

Now we know why those Sharks teams never won. Probably another reason they gave the captain to Palveski, he takes it more serious.

 

[The CyNick]

So if he scored 10 goals and we still loss you would be fine. He played well despite being exhausted. Overplayed all year long by an idiot coach. Who looks like a person who takes no responsibility for the losses. He was out classes by a coach.

And the excuse the previous playoff for him?

Agreed on Keefe, he's hot garbage.

 

[hotpaws]

what magical speech do people believe should have happened during the playoffs to propel us to the cup ?

talk is cheap and means nothing , leaders lead on the ice and the people who believe the team missed JT's leadership should remember he has never led a team anywhere

 

[3blizzard4]

Keefes act seems very Tortorela like. Might wear thin very quickly.

i mean I love that passion and all. Just don’t see how players not get tired of it in the future.

 

[Gabriel426]

Keefes act seems very Tortorela like. Might wear thin very quickly.

i mean I love that passion and all. Just don’t see how players not get tired of it in the future.

Then maybe it is the players who needs to smarten up and mature.
I see nothing wrong with the way Keefe was portrayed in the series, wish he was tougher in making decisions like the Andersen thing. Or be more forward with the team.
The message Keefe was and is trying to deliver is it takes more than talent to succeed in the playoffs. Apparently the players still didn’t get it this past season. Hopefully they do this season.

 

[Bellefour20]

Campbell made me cry blaming himself when he wasn't at fault.

 

[DarkKnight]

Finally watched it. Was fairly pedestrian, but it’s always nice to get some peeks behind the scenes.

Interesting to me was the silence of Matthews in the room, lots of player clips speaking up, none from him. Spezza seems a real leader in the room.

In fairness, I don’t get the praise Keefe was getting in here, perhaps I expected more as result. Every speech they showed him trying to get the team going, they actually lost those games. Lots of f bombs, lots of cliches, didn’t seem to resonate much. I mean every coach does that, it’s nothing remarkable in and of itself and he seemed unsure what to say at times. Certainly didn’t come off as some great mind of the game to me.

Dubas was fine, he’s such a nice guy. I’m not sure if that’s a good or bad thing.

Campbell seems really emotional, that can work both ways. He’s still a question for me, but his teammates love him.

Watching the JT footage was unsettling.

All For Nothing.

And here we go again this year…

 

[FrozenJagrt]

I think it's more that he comes across as kind of a jock dumbass. My wife overhead the show and asked "who is that hick talking?"

To be fair, the guy has been in hockey for decades. He IS a jock.

I don't know what sports some of the folks on this site played, but the foul language sounded as natural to me as any of the X's and O's stuff. That's what a locker room sounds like. I'm more surprised that people didn't know this already.

 

[Knies iT]

I also found lack of true leadership in the locker room. Sure there was lots of clown play. But when it mattered I only remember Spezza talking up and talking to the group. Very briefly. Butnit wasn’t even rah rah kick you in the butt type of talk either.

where was Simmonds and Thornton in that game 6 or game 7 in the locker room? What about Matthews and Marner? You could hear a pin drop. If it was t Keefe talking and swearing, really no players took the bill by the horns in that locker room.

you don’t need a letter on your jersey to speak up or show some anger to rally the guys up. Matthews was rumoured to get the C a couple
Of years ago. Not exactly a vocal guy.

It’s an awkward room. Unfortunately, Foligno’s personality is exactly what they need more of.

Based on MacLean’s comments, it’s at the point where less might be more for the stars when it comes to big moments. They all clearly feel massive pressure and have no idea how to respond/operate under it.

In a do or die year, if it comes to a game 7, you almost have to just let the room sort itself out and stop with these ultimatum speeches - come in, calm them down and leave. Take a complete 180 approach and let them decide their fate. They get the urgency they just cripple under it.

 

[3blizzard4]

Then maybe it is the players who needs to smarten up and mature.
I see nothing wrong with the way Keefe was portrayed in the series, wish he was tougher in making decisions like the Andersen thing. Or be more forward with the team.
The message Keefe was and is trying to deliver is it takes more than talent to succeed in the playoffs. Apparently the players still didn’t get it this past season. Hopefully they do this season.

I know. I agree with you. With this generation of players and specifically the young stars on the Leafs I see entitlement and I see them tuning the coach out in the future. I hope I am wrong. I hope they show some maturity. But you know they all got paid plenty in upfront bonuses.

 

[Antropovsky]

The lengths that posters will go to look for childish things to complain about just hit a new low.

Impressive.

Interesting so what if tomorrow Keefe is fired and it is released that Keefe was not liked by his players? Then will we you permit us to relive this discussion? The likeability of coaches have been discussed on these boards for years. Wilson was apparently the least like coach in the league, we discussed it a lot at the time on this board. Babcock was apparently among the most hated coaches in the league when and before he was here. It was discussed a lot on these boards. it was discussed on here. Tortorella apparently was chased out of Vancouver by the players a few years ago, the players in Columbus called a meeting with him because of his coaching tactics (when they were among the best teams in the league)... all discussed on these boards.

Now for the first time, we get to see how the coach interacts with his players, and we are childish to bring it up?

Your response provides nothing to this discussion. Tell posters why you think they are wrong, provide good rhetoric or evidence to support your claims.

Lets start with this:

What are your thoughts about Spezza telling Keefe that his inclination was right about the the players were not happy with Keefe (because he was pushing them too hard even when they were a 1st place team)

What were your thoughts on Keefe being so pissed about Matthews agreeing the team played too safe in his post game interview, that he went to Dubas and then discussed it with Matthews?

What did you think about Keefe blaming Andersen for letting in numerous goals in a loss and him refusing to discuss the issue with his goalie coach who said they weren't stoppable?

What about the team meeting Keefe called and Joe Thornton said "I think overall the teams been playing really well, we're first in the league for a reason, so"

Would this team have had more success if their coach wasn't constantly putting doubts in there heads about there abilities, right down to what they say in their post-games? Spezza has been in the game a long time and he agreed that the team wasn't happy with Keefe's response to them being a first place team. Thornton in the leadership meeting reminded Keefe that he thought they were playing really well and are a first place team for a reason.

It is discussed endlessly in sports, players have to want to play for their coach, sometimes it's argued plays have quit on their coach. Heck I remember discussion about how Detroit probably would have won more if Babs wasn't the coach! Maybe I am totally wrong - I have only watched a few episodes. I do think it is important for teams to have fun, and to like there coaches, so this I'm very interested in the relationship between players and coaches.

 

[Pookie]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I'm through 4 episodes and it appears to me like Keefe had his finger on the pulse of the team.

Even though they were in 1st, Keefe was concerned about winning habits, closing games out, with an eye towards the playoffs all while the players seemed to be complacent with where they were at.

wonder who else said that?

 

[Pookie]

what magical speech do people believe should have happened during the playoffs to propel us to the cup ?

talk is cheap and means nothing , leaders lead on the ice and the people who believe the team missed JT's leadership should remember he has never led a team anywhere

And the Islanders were stronger by subtraction.