Firing Dubas was an excuse, the real problem is Shanny.

[saffronleaf]

When one of your goalies goes from solid last year to literally the worst this year, then yeah, your goals against will skyrocket.

It's on the GM to address goaltending

 

[DocJ]

He is gone. Not sure why this debate still rages on. He didn't bring the playoff success any fan wanted, but he certainly wasn't the tirefire some claim he was.

While he was here, the Leafs were a lock to make the playoffs, and sometimes favourites. That hasn't happened a lot in the Leafs history.

Meh.

He was handed the keys to a team that had just put up 105pts (6th overall), a franchise record at the time.

Another leaf GM whose results could've been equaled or likely bested by a potato.

 

[Gallagbi]

It's on the GM to address goaltending

Goaltending has been handled alright. You knew we were going to face injuries and we're 3 goalies deep with Jones playing okay. You knew 1 of the 3 would stink, but most would have bet on Jones being as crappy as he was the past 2-3 years rather than Sammy.

 

[Stephen]

It's on the GM to address goaltending

Putting Samsonov on waivers at the 15 games played mark of his season is about as emergency room as you can go from a GM perspective.

Jones and Woll have both been much better playing behind the same team, so try to solve for one variable a time.

 

[Beaumaris]

The narrative that Brendan Shanahan is at fault for something or other is hilarious.

The best the Leafs could do in the decade before his arrival was scratch and claw for "the eighth and final playoff spot," if even that much. I'm so glad not to hear that phrase in the past ten years!

When Shanahan arrived, the Leafs were a mess from top-to-bottom, right from ownership through management, coaching, the roster, scouting and player development. There was a lot to turn around. Brian Burke had been dismissed, leaving Dave Nonis in charge. Randy Carlyle's coaching tenure came to an end, leaving the Leafs in the capable hands of Peter Horachuk who noted that the Give-a-Shit Meter wasn't getting much of a reading.

At least Shanahan had the balls to make some firm decisions for the long-term good of the franchise and very quickly turned things around.

Now the Leafs have made the playoffs for seven straight seasons -- after having qualified only once before since the end of the lockout before Shanahan's arrival. It's pretty hard to win the Stanley Cup if you don't even qualify for the post-season, and at the very least Shanahan has lead the Leafs with enough stability and success to do that year after year.

There's of course still more to do but I don't see any reason to think that any other team president would do his job any better. He's not the General Manager. He's not the coach. He's not one one of the players. What he has done is create a structure within which the General Manager, the coaching staff, the players and the entire system supporting them can succeed.

I think the Leafs were wise to hire Shanahan, and if they stay the course they will succeed even in the playoffs too.

You’re funny

 

[NVious]

Ultimately he is the one to blame for the hires and not whipping the core into shape. I'd like to see either him or one of the core 3 go, probably won't happen though.

 

[Ciao]

You’re funny

Thanks.

If spectator sports are for entertainment, then they may as well be entertaining.

Sometimes, you would never know that this is all just for fun and enjoyment

 

[mikeyz]

So what you're saying is we should be thankful for what we have.

Because it's better than what we had. Meanwhile ignoring the fact it's still not good enough. All the Leafs gotta do is be better than those loser teams from years ago and fans should be happy.

I wish my standards were that low.

Is he seriously suggesting that we should be grateful and happy with first round exits with this core because the previous core couldn’t make the playoffs????

 

[Ciao]

Meh.

He was handed the keys to a team that had just put up 105pts (6th overall), a franchise record at the time.

Another leaf GM whose results could've been equaled or likely bested by a potato.

I dunno.

I think we've already tried the potatoes.

Remember Floyd Smith, Gord Stellick and Gerry McNamara? John Ferguson Jr.? Cliff "Draft Schmaft" Fletcher? Brian Burke and Dave Nonis? I'm pretty sure that one of those clowns could have managed to knock the train off the rails, if they put their mind to it.

Maybe you've forgotten all those wonderful trades these guys made? How about Russ Courtnall for John Kordic? Alexander Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo for Lee Stempniak? The draft rights to Scott Niedermayer for Tom Kurvers? Tuukka Rask for Andrew Raycroft? It's hard to decide which of these takes the prize, and I'm sure there's a long list of others that I've already forgotten.

Even with the John Tavares signing and the Mason Marchment trade, there is nothing this group has done that holds a candle to the potato-heads that came before them.

 

[Ciao]

Is he seriously suggesting that we should be grateful and happy with first round exits with this core because the previous core couldn’t make the playoffs????

Yes.

I'm saying that the Leafs have had a competitive team year-in year-out, and they should stick with the process.

I haven't looked yet, but maybe you could answer this? Which other teams have made the playoffs every year for the past seven years? I would think there are a few, and if so they are all – like the Leafs – very good teams.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yes.

I'm saying that the Leafs have had a competitive team year-in year-out, and they should stick with the process.

I haven't looked yet, but maybe you could answer this? Which other teams have made the playoffs every year for the past seven years? I would think there are a few, and if so they are all – like the Leafs – very good teams.

But never considered a Cup contender……especially the year the missed.

 

[Ciao]

But never considered a Cup contender.

I'll call you on that too.

I'm not a gambler, but I just visited this site -- FanDuel Sportsbook -- and the saw the odds on winning the Stanley Cup as follows:

Stanley Cup Odds​

Stanley Cup 2023-24 - Outright Betting​

Colorado Avalanche
+750

Dallas Stars
+1100

Toronto Maple Leafs
+1100

Boston Bruins
+1100

Vegas Golden Knights
+1100

Carolina Hurricanes
+1100

New York Rangers
+1100

Los Angeles Kings
+1200

Edmonton Oilers
+1300

Now, that's just one random bookie and their odds really mean nothing, except to say that someone considers the Leafs as much of a contender as Dallas, Boston, Vegas, Carolina and the New York Rangers to win the Stanley Cup this year.

So, I don't think you can truthfully say that the Leafs were "never considered a Cup contender."

Whether you consider them a cup contender or not, someone else does.

 

[DocJ]

I dunno.

I think we've already tried the potatoes.

Remember Floyd Smith, Gord Stellick and Gerry McNamara? John Ferguson Jr.? Cliff "Draft Schmaft" Fletcher? Brian Burke and Dave Nonis? I'm pretty sure that one of those clowns could have managed to knock the train off the rails, if they put their mind to it.

Maybe you've forgotten all those wonderful trades these guys made? How about Russ Courtnall for John Kordic? Alexander Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo for Lee Stempniak? The draft rights to Scott Niedermayer for Tom Kurvers? Tuukka Rask for Andrew Raycroft? It's hard to decide which of these takes the prize, and I'm sure there's a long list of others that I've already forgotten.

Even with the John Tavares signing and the Mason Marchment trade, there is nothing this group has done that holds a candle to the potato-heads that came before them.

Pretty sure all of those guys could take a 100+ pt team that couldn't win in the playoffs, and 5 years worth of picks and assets later, leave you with a 100+pt team that can't win in the playoffs. It sounds kinda familiar. The whole 'lighting first-rounders on fire yearly' bit, especially so.

He's just the latest addition to that same, woefully overcrowded rubbish bin.

 

[hotpaws]

I dunno.

I think we've already tried the potatoes.

Remember Floyd Smith, Gord Stellick and Gerry McNamara? John Ferguson Jr.? Cliff "Draft Schmaft" Fletcher? Brian Burke and Dave Nonis? I'm pretty sure that one of those clowns could have managed to knock the train off the rails, if they put their mind to it.

Maybe you've forgotten all those wonderful trades these guys made? How about Russ Courtnall for John Kordic? Alexander Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo for Lee Stempniak? The draft rights to Scott Niedermayer for Tom Kurvers? Tuukka Rask for Andrew Raycroft? It's hard to decide which of these takes the prize, and I'm sure there's a long list of others that I've already forgotten.

Even with the John Tavares signing and the Mason Marchment trade, there is nothing this group has done that holds a candle to the potato-heads that came before them.

I think your selling Dubie short , from where he started from it's easy to make an argument that Dubas was as bad or worse than the GM's you listed.

Kadri for Kerfoot and Barrie
1st plus for Foligno

then there was Dubas grossly overpaying for bottom pair D

two 2nds and a 3rd for Gio
1st and a 2nd for MaCabe and a 4th liner

he also left us without a 1st in 2025 and without a 2nd rd pick for four consecutive years

then you have aging the declining players like Gio/Brodie/JT he left behind and a D core that pretty much had to be almost completely rebuilt

 

[Nineteen67]

I'll call you on that too.

I'm not a gambler, but I just visited this site --https://sportsbook.fanduel.com/navigation/nhl?tab=stanley-cup -- and the saw the odds on winning the Stanley Cup as follows:

Stanley Cup Odds​

Stanley Cup 2023-24 - Outright Betting​

Colorado Avalanche
+750

Dallas Stars
+1100

Toronto Maple Leafs
+1100

Boston Bruins
+1100

Vegas Golden Knights
+1100

Carolina Hurricanes
+1100

New York Rangers
+1100

Los Angeles Kings
+1200

Edmonton Oilers
+1300

Now, that's just one random bookie and there is really mean nothing, except to say that someone considers the leafs as much of a contender as Dallas, Boston, Vegas, Carolina and the New York Rangers to win the Stanley Cup this year.

So, I don't think you can truthfully say that the Leafs were "never considered a Cup contender."

Whether you consider them a cup contender or not, someone else does.

gambling odds.


I’ll submit their rosters and agree with almost every analyst for the past several years, they didn’t gave the team go on a long run.

Or recall your own memory - at any point did you think the team with at least 5 glaring flaws was ever going to win in the playoffs?

 

[Nineteen67]

I think your selling Dubie short

Kadri for Kerfoot and Barrie
1st plus for Foligno

then there was Dubas grossly overpaying for bottom pair D

two 2nds and a 3rd for Gio
1st and a 2nd for MaCabe and a 4th liner

A 1st and 2nd for McCabe? What could the Leafs get from Nashville for Marner? Preds need scoring and could make the playoffs if the added the right piece. Granted, they would screwed in the playoffs but their fans wouldn’t blame Marner…..at first.

 

[mikeyz]

Yes.

I'm saying that the Leafs have had a competitive team year-in year-out, and they should stick with the process.

I haven't looked yet, but maybe you could answer this? Which other teams have made the playoffs every year for the past seven years? I would think there are a few, and if so they are all – like the Leafs – very good teams.

Who gives a shit if they made the playoffs 7 years in a row?

They have won 1 playoff round in that time span! ONE!!!!!!!

It's gotten to a point with this core where they have outgrown just making the playoffs. That is not good enough anymore. They need to put their stamp on the league and actually have a deep run.

 

[rumman]

The title of this thread is annoying.

So is the…………

 

[leafs in five]

Not to take this thing off topic but it starts in school and parenting. I recall in college/university 1st and 2nd year students expected "good grades" for just like you mentioned "existing" without putting in the work

Some commie thought process there lol. Some interesting literature how modern western society is trending towards the "Fall of Rome" with their attitude and mindset.

how do you people think quotation marks work?

 

[Ciao]

gambling odds.


I’ll submit their rosters and agree with almost every analyst for the past several years, they didn’t gave the team go on a long run.

Or recall your own memory - at any point did you think the team with at least 5 glaring flaws was ever going to win in the playoffs?

You mean, like the 2014 LA Kings?

No, not really, but strange things happen.

 

[mikeyz]

how do you people think quotation marks work?

I don’t see any misplaced quotation marks in his post.

 

[myleafs]

If you're a lifelong fan of the Leafs then you might know this: the Leafs current stretch of seven consecutive playoff appearances is among their best and most consistent showings ever.

From 1930-45 the Leafs made the playoffs fifteen straight times and won the Stanley Cup three times in that stretch. Then they missed the playoffs.

From 1958-67 the Leafs made the playoffs nine straight times and won the Stanley Cup four times in that stretch. That was their most successful era ever.

From 1973-81 the Leafs made the playoffs eight straight times and never won a Stanley Cup. They never reached a Stanley Cup final. The reached the semi-final only once in that time, against the 1978 Montreal Canadiens. That post-expansion era was the last time the Leafs made the playoffs as many as seven times in a row, and it was without much success.

From 2004-12 the Leafs set a franchise record seven straight seasons missing the playoffs. Then in 2013 they lost in the first round to Boston and from 2013-16 missed the playoffs three more times. Ten times they missed the playoffs in 11 post-lockout, salary-cap seasons.

Leafs Nation should appreciate and enjoy the consistency of the fourth-longest playoff streak in franchise history, and the first actual consistent performance from one season to the next outside of a six- or eight-team league with no amateur entry draft, or a helter-skelter post-expansion era in which as many as 16 of 21 teams all made the playoffs.

The level of play in the National Hockey League is better than it's ever been, and the Leafs are better than they've been in a long, long time. If the Leafs can continue to be consistently competitive in the regular season and make the playoffs year after year, their further success is more than likely to follow.

Or would you rather return to the constant churning of managers and coaches as a Band-Aid alternative to a long-term plan?

You are correct that Shanny did a good job when he arrived, then he made a weird move by undoing all he did and hiring rookie Dubas,, which was weird with the big contracts needing negotiating... who he then allowed to hire a rookie coach, The team seems to have plateaued and maybe even regressed despite the stars having statistical good seasons. So, for me Shanny was on the right track when he arrived and then he drank the Dubas koolaide. And now here we are wondering what this team is exactly. Maybe like coaches, Shanny did some good but to get to the next level we need a different voice.

As for your last sentence, why does any kind of change that people in here would like to see always have to end up in a worse case scenario when it comes to the leafs?

 

[NinjaKick]

how do you people think quotation marks work?

 

[barilko05]

I dunno.

I think we've already tried the potatoes.

Remember Floyd Smith, Gord Stellick and Gerry McNamara? John Ferguson Jr.? Cliff "Draft Schmaft" Fletcher? Brian Burke and Dave Nonis? I'm pretty sure that one of those clowns could have managed to knock the train off the rails, if they put their mind to it.

Maybe you've forgotten all those wonderful trades these guys made? How about Russ Courtnall for John Kordic? Alexander Steen and Carlo Colaiacovo for Lee Stempniak? The draft rights to Scott Niedermayer for Tom Kurvers? Tuukka Rask for Andrew Raycroft? It's hard to decide which of these takes the prize, and I'm sure there's a long list of others that I've already forgotten.

Even with the John Tavares signing and the Mason Marchment trade, there is nothing this group has done that holds a candle to the potato-heads that came before them.

Really dude? The Marchment trade?!? Only this fanbase would still be bleating about trading a AAAA 4th liner who didn't have a hope in hell of cracking this lineup, then parlayed a one off good year into what is essentially his retirement contract, all the while sinking back to his own mediocre level the very next season. Also, before you dump Fletcher in with JFJ, just remember...he was also the guy that swindled Calgary for Gilmour, Macoun, etc, for a big bag o' nothing and got Mats out of Quebec for a couple of guys past their prime. True, he overstayed his welcome by a few years and got a little addled towards the end (the Steen deal, Jeff Finger) but I'll take those gaffes for prime Killer and Mats anyday.

 

[Ciao]

Really dude? The Marchment trade?!? Only this fanbase would still be bleating about trading a AAAA 4th liner who didn't have a hope in hell of cracking this lineup, then parlayed a one off good year into what is essentially his retirement contract, all the while sinking back to his own mediocre level the very next season. Also, before you dump Fletcher in with JFJ, just remember...he was also the guy that swindled Calgary for Gilmour, Macoun, etc, for a big bag o' nothing and got Mats out of Quebec for a couple of guys past their prime. True, he overstayed his welcome by a few years and got a little addled towards the end (the Steen deal, Jeff Finger) but I'll take those gaffes for prime Killer and Mats anyday.

Cliff had his moments, yes.