Firing Dubas was an excuse, the real problem is Shanny.

[DraftSchmaft]

Time to move on from Dubas entirely. He's not worth our time anymore roasting and he didn't do anything worth praising either. Just another name in the books that came and left with no success.

 

[Ports]

Prime Malkin as a #2 center shouldn't make money either...

lol someone had too much to drink on NYE

You’re comparing Tavares to Malkin with his three cups plus a scoring title ? Bad comparison which shows a complete lack of hockey knowledge

Prime Malkin as a #2 center shouldn't make money either...

lol someone had too much to drink on NYE

 

[Maple Leaf]

Time to move on from Dubas entirely. He's not worth our time anymore roasting and he didn't do anything worth praising either. Just another name in the books that came and left with no success.

He built the cup winning core

 

[Ports]

What a lot of people who fondly remember that era of Leafs hockey and constantly whine about not getting back to it completely forget is that there was no salary cap at that time. Which meant that if the Leafs needed an all-star goalie, they could go out and spent $8 million on Curtis Joseph. Now? Even if they weren't paying the Big 4 the money they are, they'd be hard-pressed to fit such a contract in without having to skimp somewhere else, which is the entire point of the salary cap setup in the first place. Teams that are rewarded in the salary cap era tend to be teams that have a handful of players emerge from literally nowhere to become key components of a Cup team. Either players take a few years to break out (see Nathan Mackinnon) and their teams are able to sign them way under market rate for a while, or they have a few guys from the minors emerge from nowhere (Tampa has benefited from this over their recent Cup runs, with guys like Palat, Johnson, Kucherov, Cirelli, Cernak, and on and on). The Leafs haven't benefited from the latter pretty much at all, and their stars emerged too fast for them to take advantage of the former.


If you had the choice between Tavares and Kadri now, which one would you take? And the answer to that question was an even bigger joke at the beginning of Tavares' contract.

I would’ve have signed a top pairing dman for the money difference of $6.5M and kept the thirty goal scorer who’s not afraid of his own shadow and made Reilly or Matthews the captain.

 

[joepeps]

You’re comparing Tavares to Malkin with his three cups plus a scoring title ? Bad comparison which shows a complete lack of hockey knowledge

no you said #2 shouldnt make the same as a #1.

Crosby and Malkin

Matthews and JT

both comparable to the team

 

[Apex Predator]

He inherited the cup winning core

Fixed it for you

 

[Al14]

Yep, Shanahan is surely trying to ensure our Leafs can't build a Stanley Cup winning team by signing too many of our core players to HUGE contracts.

Hockey is a TEAM game. It takes a full team of good hockey players to win it all. Paying 5 players the majority of the Cap prevents them from surrounding the top players with many quality support players.

Nylander's new contract might indicate that it wasn't all Dubas' fault !!!

Our Leafs will be good, but maybe, NOT good enough to win the big prize.

 

[Ports]

no you said #2 shouldnt make the same as a #1.

Crosby and Malkin

Matthews and JT

both comparable to the team

Yeah but both those centres took hometown discounts. Crosby lead the way and signed for $8.7M and then Malkin accepted $9.5M. That’s a big difference than signing Tavares for $11M when he’s not even close to Matthews or those other two. That created the internal cap structure that lead to the Leafs having to pay half their cap to four forwards and ignoring their defense. No team has won a cup with two players making more than $10M never mind three.

 

[Ciao]

He built the cup winning core

I think Lou and Dubas and Treliving all have a significant hand in putting together this roster.

I don't know that it's possible to say this team is mainly the work of one person or another. For that matter, didn't Brian Burke stick his neck out to draft Morgan Reilly?

I wouldn't really care to compare one management team to another, as long as the on-ice product continues to improve and grow.

 

[Buds17]

Yeah but both those centres took hometown discounts. Crosby lead the way and signed for $8.7M and then Malkin accepted $9.5M. That’s a big difference than signing Tavares for $11M when he’s not even close to Matthews or those other two. That created the internal cap structure that lead to the Leafs having to pay half their cap to four forwards and ignoring their defense. No team has won a cup with two players making more than $10M never mind three.

Have to consider that Crosby signed for a term then that is no longer permissible now. Convert his contract to an eight year max term and the AAV sits at 13.05M.

 

[joepeps]

Yeah but both those centres took hometown discounts. Crosby lead the way and signed for $8.7M and then Malkin accepted $9.5M. That’s a big difference than signing Tavares for $11M when he’s not even close to Matthews or those other two. That created the internal cap structure that lead to the Leafs having to pay half their cap to four forwards and ignoring their defense. No team has won a cup with two players making more than $10M never mind three.

Crosby signed in 2012 and the cap was 60 mil... 14.5 % of the cap and he did an absurd 12 year contract.
Malkin signed in 2013 for 8 years for 9.5 Mil and 14.77% of the cap

so please tell me how more percentage of the cap and winning cups isn't the same???

 

[JKG33]

Time to move on from Dubas entirely. He's not worth our time anymore roasting and he didn't do anything worth praising either. Just another name in the books that came and left with no success.

No. We need to never let the idiots singing his praises all these years forget.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Have to consider that Crosby signed for a term then that is no longer permissible now. Convert his contract to an eight year max term and the AAV sits at 13.05M.

If we took the first 8 years of his UFA contract, and adjusted it to the current cap, it would actually be 15.03m. And his post-ELC contract was the equivalent of 14.45m.

We also have to remember that Crosby signed his UFA contract coming off a career-threatening injury that severely limited his games played over the previous 2 years, and that he signed for that because Crosby had a weird obsession with the number.

Malkin's was the equivalent of 12.33m, and while that's pretty decent, people do tend to forget that he was not that great in 2 of the 3 seasons prior to signing.

 

[LeafEgo]

The difficulty level going the core-restructure route is like 10000000. The difficulty level going the depth route is 100. I just don't get why we'd ever consider a core restructure yet.

That's fair to say now because Dubie salted the earth when he left, but restructuring the core through his tenure wasn't level 10 million.

A double whammy of beaucoup assets for mitch and up to 2M extra to lure Petro home after the cbj loss could have sent us down a very different path. Vegas bought their core.

Now though it's a different story. Probably Mitch stays and the current core moves forward unless an unusual opportunity presents itself. Looking at the recent leaks it seems most likely Tre will at least be looking for one before settling on another overpay.

We should take note that under Shanny it appears Tre twice explored alternatives to resigning Willy. The threshold for Marner will be lower.

 

[ACC1224]

That's fair to say now because Dubie salted the earth when he left, but restructuring the core through his tenure wasn't level 10 million.

A double whammy of beaucoup assets for mitch and up to 2M extra to lure Petro home after the cbj loss could have sent us down a very different path. Vegas bought their core.

Now though it's a different story. Probably Mitch stays and the current core moves forward unless an unusual opportunity presents itself. Looking at the recent leaks it seems most likely Tre will at least be looking for one before settling on another overpay.

We should take note that under Shanny it appears Tre twice explored alternatives to resigning Willy. The threshold for Marner will be lower.

What does the bolded mean?

 

[LeafEgo]

What does the bolded mean?

When Tre was weighing alternatives for Willy we had one superstar forward locked up long term. When he explores alternatives for Marner we will have two. It's a more flexible position.

If Marner commands a larger overpay there's that as well when weighing options.

Probably he stays though and its worth mentioning there is still lots of time that could change the dynamics in either direction.

 

[Ports]

My poi

Crosby signed in 2012 and the cap was 60 mil... 14.5 % of the cap and he did an absurd 12 year contract.
Malkin signed in 2013 for 8 years for 9.5 Mil and 14.77% of the cap

so please tell me how more percentage of the cap and winning cups isn't the same???

My point still stands. No team has won paying two forwards $10M+ never mind four players like the Leafs will have next year. Signing Tavares at $11M set the standard and they had to pay Marner and Matthews more because they were already better players than him in their early 20’s. The rest is history and good players had to be thrown overboard because they could no longer afford them and they’ve yet to address their less than cup contending back end. Hopefully this season they break through in the playoffs because Marner’s going to be asking for his $13M and it goes on and on. Run it back Shanahan has no idea how to build a deep, balanced lineup. He just wants his shiny toys who will all set Leaf scoring records but never come close to winning when it matters.

 

[joepeps]

My poi

My point still stands. No team has won paying two forwards $10M+ never mind four players like the Leafs will have next year. Signing Tavares at $11M set the standard and they had to pay Marner and Matthews more because they were already better players than him in their early 20’s. The rest is history and good players had to be thrown overboard because they could no longer afford them and they’ve yet to address their less than cup contending back end. Hopefully this season they break through in the playoffs because Marner’s going to be asking for his $13M and it goes on and on. Run it back Shanahan has no idea how to build a deep, balanced lineup. He just wants his shiny toys who will all set Leaf scoring records but never come close to winning when it matters.

No team has won paying someone 10 mil... now its 2... before it was no one has won paying someone 9 mil or 8 mil... shit changes and the salary cap increases

I'm not saying its good to have all these high players and not saying its bad.... Leafs got screwed with the cap hits and cap not going up... now these players are all coming due for new contracts when the cap is going back up and not flat lol

my point is... you can't use a dollar amount and say it never happened when people got paid more of the cap. Dollar amount means nothing when someone is paid 15% of the cap but its only 8.7 mil and now that its 10 mil and only 12 or 13% of the cap its a problem.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

My point still stands. No team has won paying two forwards $10M+ never mind four players like the Leafs will have next year. Signing Tavares at $11M set the standard and they had to pay Marner and Matthews more because they were already better players than him in their early 20’s.

Shanahan was a failure.

Can the Leafs win with MM at 14AAV ?

 

[Ports]

Shanahan was a failure.

Can the Leafs win with MM at 14AAV ?

No and thankfully they won’t have to.

 

[Buds17]

How many playoff games have the Penguins participated in or won since Dubas took over? Not everything is an either/or situation in which the other answer absolutely has to be the correct one, right?

 

[HamiltonNHL]

What an absolute disasterous team construction.

Who was the bum / GM / "President" that constructed this loserville ?

This is comedy level mismanagement. Shanahan must be embarrassed with the endless failures under his watch.

So sad.

 

[notDatsyuk]

What an absolute disasterous team construction.

View attachment 1052181

Who was the bum / GM / "President" that constructed this loserville ?

This is comedy level mismanagement. Shanahan must be embarrassed with the endless failures under his watch.

So sad.

The architects of the disaster are gone.

In a couple of weeks we'll be down to two, and fortunately the best two.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

In a couple of weeks we'll be down to two, and fortunately the best two.

agreed.

Matthews sketchy injury situation is grave cause for concern.

 

[stickty111]

How many playoff games have the Penguins participated in or won since Dubas took over? Not everything is an either/or situation in which the other answer absolutely has to be the correct one, right?

Not sure this thread needs to be bumped. Both were bad