Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[RoadWarrior]

Its not even about 4 players getting 50% of the cap though not optimal imo but its the kind of players that are taking up that amount. If you have a prime Doughty and Kopitar with Matthews and Tavares or Hedman, Kucherov or I would be good with that.

It's not just the % of the cap. It's also the fact that none of them aside from Nylander has been able to raise their game in the playoffs.

 

[deprw]

My faith in Shanahan took a turn when me moved on from a HOF’er and hired a stick boy who didn’t make it out of minor hockey.

It’s been almost all down hill ever since.

Well, you can bet that Lou would have moved on with Nylander. Who was our best forward in playoffs and probably went full Vladdy Malakhov with some veteran, but it would have been interesting to see what he could have accomplished with Marner and Matthews.

He though didn't sign Nylander when he had chance.

 

[ACC1224]

Eh, to me it all comes down to Marner.
Nylander wanted a little more than we wanted to pay, was a reasonable negotiation. Not worth burning the bridge. Should have been done faster

Matthews had the hammer. He had UFA level leverage. With him already pissed at Babs Dubas' only decision was to try and salvage a longterm future or not.

Marner had.. ego issues. He's like 1.5-2m overpaid. That's worth fighting/drawing a line in the sand.

Whole thing could have been avoided if he signed them in the correct order.

 

[sparxx87]

Interesting choice. Canada played terrible hockey in WHC without any game system, but they had good PP. Would help us, if we'd have good special teams.

Truth be told I watched little of the tournament. My experience is with Vegas and Florida.

I’m open to other ideas, just have him come to mind immediately. Bruce Boudreau should be considered.

I’d want to hear what their vision for this core would be.

 

[sparxx87]

Well, you can bet that Lou would have moved on with Nylander. Who was our best forward in playoffs and probably went full Vladdy Malakhov with some veteran, but it would have been interesting to see what he could have accomplished with Marner and Matthews.

He though didn't sign Nylander when he had chance.

True, but there’s a lot we don’t know about the Nylander situation so it’s hard to say.

I just look at the numbers once they’re plugged in. Kadri, Rielly and Anderson all looked very good as core pieces to set the bar for the young guys.

 

[rumman]

Stupid comment. Keefe has one of the best records of Leafs coaches when you look the tenure from start of the career. He isn't Trotz but he is lot younger and up & coming. If he wasn't our coach, but some other NHL team with same outcome, any of you wouldn't write him off.

oh brother...........

 

[rumman]

I think I'm reading from even the most critical that the biggest mistake was signing Tavares because the other contracts are being explained away by all of us one way or another.

there's no denying that JT was a luxury the Leaf didn't need nor could afford long term........

 

[rumman]

Game 4 vs CBJ looked like it could be a coming-of-age moment where it finally clicked how good they can be when they play with urgency...

... but nope. They laid an egg the next game.

Shanahan: you have to let these things develop organically..........

 

[rumman]

Truth be told I watched little of the tournament. My experience is with Vegas and Florida.

I’m open to other ideas, just have him come to mind immediately. Bruce Boudreau should be considered.

I’d want to hear what their vision for this core would be.

better coaching will help, but there's no ignoring the elephant in the room, that being cap distribution.......

 

[justashadowof]

If Shanahan is the one to fired first, remember that MLSE has become a large corporate bureaucracy. These types of organizational structures work at glacial paces when reacting to situations. So glacial that lameduck entities can hang onto titles for months after the process is initiated. Could be at some point in the near future Shanahan shows up at a meeting to discover there's a new director of something or another who wants to have a meeting with him.

 

[rumman]

We had coach when Trotz was available. Islanders had one of the open positions at that point when Trotz was UFA. Would you have canned Babcock for Trotz at that point?

yup I would have, I didn't think and still don't think coaching was the real problem, but it was obvious Dubas and Babcock were on different pages, and he wasn't the right coach. We all knew Keefe was the GM's boy and didn't even interview anyone else, that's on the GM for being so narrow minded. He thinks he's way starter than he actually is, and if not for the misguided faith of the President he's be rightfully unemployed this very minute...........

 

[Rare Jewel]

It's not just the % of the cap. It's also the fact that none of them aside from Nylander has been able to raise their game in the playoffs.

Well, he's the most recent.

Marner was very good against Boston in '18 and Matthews in '19. It's interesting to see that the credit Nylander is receiving supersedes those other performances to where he now is someone you can't move.

 

[hotpaws]

If Shanahan is the one to fired first, remember that MLSE has become a large corporate bureaucracy. These types of organizational structures work at glacial paces when reacting to situations. So glacial that lameduck entities can hang onto titles for months after the process is initiated. Could be at some point in the near future Shanahan shows up at a meeting to discover there's a new director of something or another who wants to have a meeting with him.

good point and i'm sure the board is/have had discussion on Shanny/Dubie/Keefe performance

 

[DarkKnight]

Whole thing could have been avoided if he signed them in the correct order.

Or drew a line in the sand with Bill. When he went to Europe, then New York, to make sure he and his agent were okay, I knew they had the upper hand, despite Kyle having literally all the cards. I’ll be in Toronto if you want to come and talk, I’m not flying to Europe to make sure Willie is okay. The Bill deal looks fine now, but it set the table. Agents love Dubas, that’s the worst indictment imaginable.

 

[rumman]

If Shanahan is the one to fired first, remember that MLSE has become a large corporate bureaucracy. These types of organizational structures work at glacial paces when reacting to situations. So glacial that lameduck entities can hang onto titles for months after the process is initiated. Could be at some point in the near future Shanahan shows up at a meeting to discover there's a new director of something or another who wants to have a meeting with him.

I love the optimism, but it appears ownership is more than content to waste more time on this dog and pony show........

 

[DarkKnight]

Well, he's the most recent.

Marner was very good against Boston in '18 and Matthews in '19. It's interesting to see that the credit Nylander is receiving supersedes those other performances to where he now is someone you can't move.

One small caveat, their entire game plan focused on the first line, Willie did benefit from this fact, but that was supposed to be our strength all along so he excelled in his role, period.

 

[Lemontree]

Interesting choice. Canada played terrible hockey in WHC without any game system, but they had good PP. Would help us, if we'd have good special teams.

Are you aware of the plugs that were on that Team Canada roster? Didn't come close to resembling the typical B/C (Team Canada) level NHL talent that usually is available.

 

[hotpaws]

Well, you can bet that Lou would have moved on with Nylander. Who was our best forward in playoffs and probably went full Vladdy Malakhov with some veteran, but it would have been interesting to see what he could have accomplished with Marner and Matthews.

He though didn't sign Nylander when he had chance.

he didn't/couldn't re sign Barzal when he had the chance after his 2nd season either yet still got him inked to a reasonable bridge deal

 

[DarkKnight]

If we aren’t moving the big four, then how exactly does this team really change? Maybe Shanny should clean house, fire the GM and his coach. Kyle has done a decent job, but he inherited the most envious situation imaginable. The coach is a giant question mark, but his fate is tied to Dubas, he isn’t firing him (if he did next year, then he’s done anyways). You want to mix it up and lay down a marker, shake this group to the core, perhaps you rip away the culture surrounding them and make it a “put up or shut up” year.

This idea that we stand pat with the core, same coach, same GM, seems like Shanny is trying the same thing again, and again. The easiest thing guy can do is shake up the coach and GM, perhaps it isn’t fair, but new blood isn’t beholden to old relationships. Maybe a new GM trades JT? There’s no loyalty, this group has failed, everything is on the table.

I consider cleaning house and don’t think the people above Shanny aren’t talking about that right now, because they are.

 

[koyvoo]

One of the most ridiculous characteristics of this board is vilifying the Marner contract while justifying the Matthews contract.

They’re both bad, but at the times of the signings, the Marner contract was actually more justified. He, at least had a monster season when he signed his. Matthews was given to him on hopes of meeting his potential.

And even as we stand here today, both are bad, bit I don’t see one being much worse than the other.

I think that if Austin Matthews blew up an olds folks home which was attached to a daycare, a certain amount of people here would still make excuses for him.

 

[Rare Jewel]

One small caveat, their entire game plan focused on the first line, Willie did benefit from this fact, but that was supposed to be our strength all along so he excelled in his role, period.

Yes, he did.

He probably could still produce with Matthews as well though.

 

[fahad203]

Im hard pressed to think of a really good trade made in the past five years that really helped this team.

Maybe Anderson?

GMs these days rarely fleece anyone. Otherwise you'll never get anyone to do favors like giving you a draft pick or taking on a bad contract. A holes GMs like Keenan and Clark are long gone

You get a bad deal here and there, but more because a player doesn't work out

 

[sparxx87]

I love the optimism, but it appears ownership is more than content to waste more time on this dog and pony show........

But he’s saying the process could be under way, but it takes a long time.

...I think?

I’ve heard this from a few others, too.

 

[Rare Jewel]

One of the most ridiculous characteristics of this board is vilifying the Marner contract while justifying the Matthews contract.

They’re both bad, but at the times of the signings, the Marner contract was actually more justified. He, at least had a monster season when he signed his. Matthews was given to him on hopes of meeting his potential.

And even as we stand here today, both are bad, bit I don’t see one being much worse than the other.

I think that if Austin Matthews blew up an olds folks home which was attached to a daycare, a certain amount of people here would still make excuses for him.

Yeah, perhaps.

I'm not a fan of the term in particular of Matthews' deal, but being the #1 center, 1st overall pick goal scoring emblem of the Shanahplan era that he is. They likely didn't put up the kind of fight in negotiations that they did with the other two.

Possibly he was the one to bridge if they weren't going to get 7 years on a deal.

 

[sparxx87]

One of the most ridiculous characteristics of this board is vilifying the Marner contract while justifying the Matthews contract.

They’re both bad, but at the times of the signings, the Marner contract was actually more justified. He, at least had a monster season when he signed his. Matthews was given to him on hopes of meeting his potential.

And even as we stand here today, both are bad, bit I don’t see one being much worse than the other.

I think that if Austin Matthews blew up an olds folks home which was attached to a daycare, a certain amount of people here would still make excuses for him.

Where was the old folks home?

Measuring the impact of an elite two way centre vs a dynamic offensive winger is very hard, but most agree the former has a far greater impact on winning.

Matthews is usually worth his money. Marner, not so much.