Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[4thline]

yup could have just walked out the door , lol

you know you can sit at your lap top and giggle while you post nonsense because you've run out of logical ways to defend the Dube but the fact is unless he can somehow pull a rabbit our of his ass this off season he'll be out of a job by the end of next year if not sooner

He could have. Sometimes the talent is in the drivers seat in negotiations. A 6'4 American born generational goal scorer is one of those times.

And yes, Dubas is on his last chance.

 

[hotpaws]

He could have. Sometimes the talent is in the drivers seat in negotiations. A 6'4 American born generational goal scorer is one of those times.

And yes, Dubas is on his last chance.

no he couldn't have just like no other rfa could have picked there destination

 

[myleafs]

I honestly don't know the answer, but part of it is his style of play (passing) paired with Matthews (shooting). It was so predictable and easy to defend. If TOR keeps Marner they better figure out how to use him.

I think Marner could be the perfect rover type player kinda like Hyman is. Move him around lines 1-4, keep his creative juices going with different look players.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Is the distribution the issue or the players?

If we swap MacKinnon for Marner at the same cost, do we beat MTL? What about Tavares playing?

The issue with a forward heavy group is how it leaves the rest of the roster. I thought our D was built fine. I would have liked more Hutton, but the leave impacted that. Goaltending was good enough. Depth options were there, and the 12th forward usage was our biggest issue there.

It's both the distribution and the players. That's why it's become necessary to trade one or more of them for the team to move forward.

The D was still very thin. They had no PP quarterback which hurt them badly. Sandin might be that guy in a couple of years but he wasn't ready this year.

 

[Notsince67]

I've felt deep existential angst in my gut regarding a Leafs' trade announcement 3 times that I can recall:
1. Courtnall for Kordic
2. 1991 1st for Tom Kurvers (I had already been fantasizing that the Leafs in the 1991 was a real possibility)
3. The 2 unprotected 1sts for Phil Kessel.

I remember that I farted after after Rick St Croix for Bunny Larocque.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm torn on that. Simply because if I'm his boss and his failing is going to be betting on those two young guns, his downfall is their downfall, so why not be damn sure and be ready to move on from all at once.

I'd like to keep Matthews if he wants to stay so my thinking is move Marner for sure, move Dubas if he doesn't agree and once Marner's gone, find out how Matthews feels about being in Toronto long term.

 

[4thline]

no he couldn't have just like no other rfa could have picked there destination

Picked anywhere was slight hyperbole. But if he got to July 1 and had an agent broadcast a number like 10.5 x 4 or 12.5 x 7 he would have had multiple offers to choose from.

 

[leafsfan5]

Boy I miss 2018. We had the best season in our history and battled back from down 3-1 almost beating the second best team in the eastern conference that regular season. Our core was young and fiesty, Marner even had an amazing series with 9 points in 7 games. Winning a cup seemed inevitable

What a f***ing mess we have now

 

[rumman]

Gotchya...While I agree somewhat ,what babs didnt do with a well rested M and M was play them when he should have. Throwing Marleau out in the dying minutes and saying well it was his turn was just crazy talk. If Babs was keeping the minutes down to keep them fresh during the season and then used them properly in the playoffs then great, but he didnt. Keefe just took the play them til they drop approach and that was also not a good move. Not sure why some coaches don't see what is so obvious to everybody else.

You have a point, but perhaps Babs saw the kids for what they (so far) are, playoff choke masters?

 

[sparxx87]

He could have. Sometimes the talent is in the drivers seat in negotiations. A 6'4 American born generational goal scorer is one of those times.

And yes, Dubas is on his last chance.

Which lends credence to your earlier point that part of this is completely out of their control. You draft an elite talent at the top but you don’t get to choose his interests, motivation or preferred living.

Seems like they got pretty unlucky in that regard. Same talent with Crosby or Toews’ attitude and team first approach, we likely aren’t having this conversation.

 

[4thline]

I'd like to keep Matthews if he wants to stay so my thinking is move Marner for sure, move Dubas if he doesn't agree and once Marner's gone, find out how Matthews feels about being in Toronto long term.

That's a very specific mandate for a new GM, I think you'd want them to have autonomy to make their own choice on the two.

 

[egd27]

A team with a better attitude maybe thinks this way: OK guys, we can't f*** around when our goalie let in a softie, time to kick it into high gear like RIGHT NOW!

I agree, but we've been hearing about the "back breaking" goals for 4-5 years now. I guess the fact they battled back in two of the games before choking in OT was a good sign?

 

[ToneDog]

Picked anywhere was slight hyperbole. But if he got to July 1 and had an agent broadcast a number like 10.5 x 4 or 12.5 x 7 he would have had multiple offers to choose from.

And you match. I think Leafs panicked and thought somebody would offer the max (20%) or close to it.

 

[egd27]

I was driving when I heard Courtnall for Kordic. I call it road rage.

My driving story is the Jason Blake signing. Maybe we should walk more?

 

[sparxx87]

If it's game, set and match after one goal, there's something really wrong with the mental makeup of the team. But I guess we knew that already ...

A team with a better attitude maybe thinks this way: OK guys, we can't f*** around when our goalie let in a softie, time to kick it into high gear like RIGHT NOW!



Yup. I remember I was in my car listening to the radio when I heard about Marner's contract. I was just so shocked, lucky I didn't cause an accident.

As a teammate on the bench, you grit your teeth and go get it back for him. He bails you out, now it’s our turn.

Just don’t see that ‘dig in’ from them.

 

[ToneDog]

My driving story is the Jason Blake signing. Maybe we should walk more?

Just make sure you are not walking on an overpass.

 

[deprw]

Actually, Barry Trotz wouldn’t even be in NY if not for Lamoriello. He said as much.

Lamoriello hired the best coach in the league, Dubas hired a coach who doesn’t belong in the league.

Stupid comment. Keefe has one of the best records of Leafs coaches when you look the tenure from start of the career. He isn't Trotz but he is lot younger and up & coming. If he wasn't our coach, but some other NHL team with same outcome, any of you wouldn't write him off.

 

[4thline]

And you match. I think Leafs panicked and thought somebody would offer the max (20%) or close to it.

The thing is that both of those examples are arguable "best case" scenarios for an OS. What if it's 10.5 x 3 with poison pill QO? or 13x6? Something worse for us with the added harm to the long term relationship from bad negotiations.

 

[deprw]

Who hired Trotz? Who hired Keefe?

We had coach when Trotz was available. Islanders had one of the open positions at that point when Trotz was UFA. Would you have canned Babcock for Trotz at that point?

 

[justashadowof]

I remember Babcock once in a blue moon would leave the young stars out for super long shifts. I don't know whether he was testing them or punishing them.

In terms of usage, I think you keep the ice time down in the regular season most games maybe boosting it on occasion to test the players' ability to handle it. Then based on those infrequent samples of a player handling large minutes, you up the minutes in the playoffs to take advantage of the maximum you can get out of the player. Remember that come playoff time this team has half of its payroll invested into 4 forwards. Those 4 forwards should be expected to deliver more than half of the team's production in the playoffs and they need the opportunities to deliver that production.

 

[myleafs]

I saw mockery and ridicule from many people (including myself TBH). Some assertions require ridicule but not everything said by those individuals were wrong and quite a bit was right.
Dubas has made some big mistakes but this was his best year for not making mistakes. Will be interesting what management does this coming year. I really doubt they run back the same lineup, same lines and same system.

I wish I shared your optimism. I hope you right.

 

[Stonehands1990]

I think Marner could be the perfect rover type player kinda like Hyman is. Move him around lines 1-4, keep his creative juices going with different look players.

This 100% how he should be used but let’s not pretend we have a Quennville or Laviolette coaching. Our coach is an idiot

 

[egd27]

Apparently not across the NHL because no other GM paid their RFA stars anything close to what Dubas capitulated to with both Matthews and Marner.

Matthews was always going to come in between Eichel and McDavid....just not for 5 years compared to 8.

Marner had it easy, more points than the 2 $11m guys, and Nylander paved the way with his holdout so Kid Kyle was deathly afraid of that happening again. "Just a little less than Auston please and thank you"

 

[Martin Skoula]

The thing is that both of those examples are arguable "best case" scenarios for an OS. What if it's 10.5 x 3 with poison pill QO? or 13x6? Something worse for us with the added harm to the long term relationship from bad negotiations.

Besides I'm sure the media wouldn't bring up the point that he signed a contract with another team every single day and especially after every single playoff loss.

 

[sparxx87]

Stupid comment. Keefe has one of the best records of Leafs coaches when you look the tenure from start of the career. He isn't Trotz but he is lot younger and up & coming. If he wasn't our coach, but some other NHL team with same outcome, any of you wouldn't write him off.

Heavily weighted with the new coach honeymoon and a watered down North division.

Watching him get dragged into deep water and drowned by Dominique Ducharme should be red flags for all.