Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[sparxx87]

I don't think Leafs being out of the playoffs and NYI being in the playoffs means as much as you think it does, in terms of Leo. But I'm all for folks grasping anything they can to find positivity in the loss. Congratulations, friend.

It’s a team game so relative to that, it doesn’t mean a lot... but it tells me you have little clue what type of players a good coach wants on his bench in a playoff matchup.

Only positive is that Dubas is getting closer to being Gord Stellick; out of the league for good.

 

[4thline]

So it's pretty clear that they're getting another year, and it seems like (though could be a pokerface) they're keeping the core together.

Same thing happens next year. Rampant regular season success, playoff flameout, lacklustre performance from AM/MM.

You're the guy hired to replace Dubas. Do you look at trading both a la Richards/Carter?

 

[Gallagbi]

People criticize the dumb moves. They credit the smart moves. There’s been wayyyy more dumb than smart, hence the overwhelming criticism.

That’s your opinion. I’ve heard a number of people comment on this, and some posted here something to the effect of “see Dubas with the trophy? “

If you don’t get it, you don’t get it.

I think the biggest mistake is betting on this core and then the bottom line forwards - and even that's mixed with Spezza, Simmonds, Thornton.

Dubas has rebuilt the D and honestly it looks pretty good to me. He found a starter for under $2M when everyone was panicking about losing Fred.

I don't think any fans were in a hurry to dump Marner and Matthews. Some would have dumped Nylander, but he's really been solid.

Dubas is betting on the core and it'll either cost him his job or make him the hero.

 

[ToneDog]

He really should've been a politician instead.

I prefer him as a Senator

 

[nuck]

Have to say, I don't mind his position.

It's not what I'd choose personally, but we're in a market that reacts and has been relatively quick to change. He's betting on himself and willing to face the consequences along with it. The easy thing to do would be make a major trade. It would likely buy him more time.

That is two failures ago now. Time for some change Kyle, quit hiding

 

[Trapper]

Have to say, I don't mind his position.

It's not what I'd choose personally, but we're in a market that reacts and has been relatively quick to change. He's betting on himself and willing to face the consequences along with it. The easy thing to do would be make a major trade. It would likely buy him more time.

He’s betting on himself just like Mike Babcock did. That went well.

Im tired of those betting on themselves.
Taking all they can in contracts without consequences.

Id like someone to do best for the team.

 

[Gallagbi]

That is two failures ago now. Time for some change Kyle, quit hiding

What suggests he's hiding in that quote?

 

[RoadWarrior]

I think the biggest mistake is betting on this core and then the bottom line forwards - and even that's mixed with Spezza, Simmonds, Thornton.

Dubas has rebuilt the D and honestly it looks pretty good to me. He found a starter for under $2M when everyone was panicking about losing Fred.

I don't think any fans were in a hurry to dump Marner and Matthews. Some would have dumped Nylander, but he's really been solid.

Dubas is betting on the core and it'll either cost him his job or make him the hero.

Dubas has done some good things but it all hinges on his $40M commitment to 4 forwards and it's become painfully obvious that was a mistake.

 

[sparxx87]

So it's pretty clear that they're getting another year, and it seems like (though could be a pokerface) they're keeping the core together.

Same thing happens next year. Rampant regular season success, playoff flameout, lacklustre performance from AM/MM.

You're the guy hired to replace Dubas. Do you look at trading both a la Richards/Carter?

Great question and I think many Flyers fans are still split in hindsight.

Difference for them, though, is that these players just signed extensions and they had a young Claude Giroux to build around at 1C.

 

[ToneDog]

That is two failures ago now. Time for some change Kyle, quit hiding

He is not hiding. I believe he is fixing his spreadsheet as somebody suggested a few of his cells might need fixing.

 

[Gallagbi]

He’s betting on himself just like Mike Babcock did. That went well.

Im tired of those betting on themselves.
Taking all they can in contracts without consequences.

Id like someone to do best for the team.

We all see the consequences for Kyle of they don't succeed, right?

 

[sparxx87]

I think the biggest mistake is betting on this core and then the bottom line forwards - and even that's mixed with Spezza, Simmonds, Thornton.

Dubas has rebuilt the D and honestly it looks pretty good to me. He found a starter for under $2M when everyone was panicking about losing Fred.

I don't think any fans were in a hurry to dump Marner and Matthews. Some would have dumped Nylander, but he's really been solid.

Dubas is betting on the core and it'll either cost him his job or make him the hero.

This is fair... for me just seems like a lot of weight to carry in too few baskets for 4 gruelling playoff rounds and 16 wins.

Particularly because they can’t even get to first base.

 

[Gallagbi]

Dubas has done some good things but it all hinges on his $40M commitment to 4 forwards and it's become painfully obvious that was a mistake.

Is the distribution the issue or the players?

If we swap MacKinnon for Marner at the same cost, do we beat MTL? What about Tavares playing?

The issue with a forward heavy group is how it leaves the rest of the roster. I thought our D was built fine. I would have liked more Hutton, but the leave impacted that. Goaltending was good enough. Depth options were there, and the 12th forward usage was our biggest issue there.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I prefer him as a Senator

So we're sticking to my plan b/c I know in the end, sometime, it will work
Despite all evidence to the contrary - Kyle knows and he's willing to waste years on his master plan

 

[sparxx87]

We all see the consequences for Kyle of they don't succeed, right?

What about for the organization, and this era of fans who saw their best chance with elite talent being squandered by someone who isn’t qualified to make these decisions?

 

[Gallagbi]

This is fair... for me just seems like a lot of weight to carry in too few baskets for 4 gruelling playoff rounds and 16 wins.

Particularly because they can’t even get to first base.

Really just comes down to our stars needing to be stars.

We rebuilt to fill in that top end talent. Thats the whole point. But lately they've crumbled under the pressure.

 

[ToneDog]

Is the distribution the issue or the players?

If we swap MacKinnon for Marner at the same cost, do we beat MTL? What about Tavares playing?

The issue with a forward heavy group is how it leaves the rest of the roster. I thought our D was built fine. I would have liked more Hutton, but the leave impacted that. Goaltending was good enough. Depth options were there, and the 12th forward usage was our biggest issue there.

That first goal in game #7 simply cannot go in, especially playing behind a fragile team. Good overall performance from your backup though.

Our only out of this mess if the UFA market. If Dubas makes the right signing we have some hope. Another summer of value signings and next year will be another failure.

 

[sparxx87]

Really just comes down to our stars needing to be stars.

We rebuilt to fill in that top end talent. Thats the whole point. But lately they've crumbled under the pressure.

It’s not just that simple, though. Stars need to be stars, no question, but there’s a number of other moments along the road where a team needs its depth and support players to star in their roles.

Even if Matthews and Marner get hot, they need a lot of help to get all the way home. I don’t know how they afford this help.

 

[nuck]

What suggests he's hiding in that quote?

That quote is from two years ago. "If we hide from change.. we'll never find out" Well spoken but arguably they have now found out so time to change again

 

[IPS]

Is it just me or why is every single guy that comes here...be it a 4th liner or otherwise that made his rep by being rough and tumble neutered virtually from the 2nd day onward?

I look at Muzzin..he used to hit guys fairly often...now? nothing..not one big hit in whole season or playoffs. He used to take tons of slap shots...now? he prefers the wrister most of the time. It's like whoever comes here just gets told not to do the things that made them an asset we would want.

Is it because a guy like Muzzin doesn't want to be the only guy hitting? Is it something else? It's like they are given a list of do's and don'ts when they get here. Even Foligno...I expected him to truck someone in his first game....nada..

This has been a constant with Dubas' teams.

Every single gritty physical player who comes here ends up completely abandoning that aspect of their game.

 

[Gallagbi]

What about for the organization, and this era of fans who saw their best chance with elite talent being squandered by someone who isn’t qualified to make these decisions?

You're worried about wasting our top end talent, by counting on our top end talent? Is that your thought process here?

 

[sparxx87]

@Gallagbi And about the goaltending - I like Jack Campbell, but for those who were worried about mental game and letting in soft goals in the playoffs with Freddy... how can you say Jack is a solution to that?

He’s a good backup, I’m still not seeing a starter

 

[rumman]

That's the conundrum. Dubas trades Marner to Team X retaining 25% of his salary for some useful parts none of which are a point per game player with the potential to win an Art Ross. Marner goes full MVP on Team X while none of the serviceable players acquired in return elevate the team to win a playoff round as the remaining expensive players still don't find their playoff mojo.

I think there are teams who'll take Marner and his contract, no retention necessary.

 

[sparxx87]

You're worried about wasting our top end talent, by counting on our top end talent? Is that your thought process here?

No, I’m worried about the support and structure around them... and how they’ll get enough of it to get over the hump with no money in the what could possibly be the last 3 years of Matthews. Their game gets easier with more talent around them... if they had another physical top line fwd in Hyman’s spot, do you think he misses all those chances?

Clock is ticking and this is a mess.

 

[Bomber0104]

Haven't seen much of the dynamic duo since the season ended.

And we're all better for it.