Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[Garthinater]

So why do you think big fans of the team need to do a naked walk of shame and be ridiculed?

Because they shamed and ridiculed anyone who doubted their prized stats nerd over the last 3 years.

This is the toronto maple leafs. Not the kyle dubas'. You don't need to cheer on every single move the gm makes. They are two separate entities.

Those posters have proven that they are incapable of being unbiased. They will trash lou at every chance and sing praises to dubas even when the results are so drastically different.

"Fans" like them are part of the problem.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Did you not notice that they’re not the same trophy?

Three of them are in a salary cap league, the other is Kyle Dubas.

The criticism was about him celebrating on the ice with players...something only an inexperienced egomaniac would ever do (even though all GMs do it)

 

[sparxx87]

The criticism was about him celebrating on the ice with players...something only an inexperienced egomaniac would ever do (even though all GMs do it)

No, that’s not it.

Context is very important.

 

[Notsince67]

You mean those guys, along with people like @BoredBrandonPridham who mocked and ridiculed the doubters with regular season stats in the COVID North division?

I saw mockery and ridicule from many people (including myself TBH). Some assertions require ridicule but not everything said by those individuals were wrong and quite a bit was right.
Dubas has made some big mistakes but this was his best year for not making mistakes. Will be interesting what management does this coming year. I really doubt they run back the same lineup, same lines and same system.

 

[justashadowof]

Well said mess.

Where is @Dekes For Days @zeke @kb @Rants Mulliniks

That pesky old Lou keeps making your boy dubas look terrible.

They'll be back. They're awaiting instructions on what the new company line will be for the summer of 2021. There are going to be major changes to the company line. What are they going to be: Keefe is now a bad coach? Marner is the only major problem with the team? The team needs stability from constant changes? The team needs to turn to youth as support players over geriatric former stars?

I remember that one account who insisted that Liljegren was a better prospect than Sandin for a really really long time, must have posted 10's of thousands of words on the subject attacking every unsuspecting poster who independently noticed Sandin was progressing way faster. That account disappeared for a few months (one of the above accounts re-appeared coincidentally) and when the account came back it was as if he had never pimped for Liljegren ever.

P.S. Surely some accounts here must be social media influencers. MLSE spends everywhere else, why not on social media as well? And they may not have began their lives as that. I won't speculate as to who specifically. One hint will be if we start hearing rumbling against a certain player(s) out of nowhere. I wouldn't count Marner, that's been going on for several seasons. I do think major changes are floated on social media to groom the fanbase for the shock of major changes.

 

[egd27]

There’s an even funnier one of him bent over with clenched fists like he just scored the winning goal.

This was another that was on my list of ‘wtf’ moments.

Yes I've seen that one. I liked the one I used due to the almost complete lack of players in it.

 

[sparxx87]

I saw mockery and ridicule from many people (including myself TBH). Some assertions require ridicule but not everything said by those individuals were wrong and quite a bit was right.
Dubas has made some big mistakes but this was his best year for not making mistakes. Will be interesting what management does this coming year. I really doubt they run back the same lineup, same lines and same system.

That’s fair. In all things in life we’re either wrong or we’re right... but when you’re clearly wrong based on fundamental principles and omit such obnoxious arrogance about it, people find a little amusement seeing these people eat their words.

I don’t often agree with a number of very good contributors to this site, but only a few stand out with their obnoxious arrogance like those ones.

and I’d actually exclude Zeke. He believes in his numbers but he’s never disrespectful or condescending when he’s wrong, at least to me.

 

[justashadowof]

I don't see how people are still buying the crap Shanny and Dubas are selling.

I guess the board of MLSE are still buying it. By the way, who are the people Shanahan reports to? Maybe they're the people who need to be influenced? I think the current media environment with the sports media all adjacent cousins of MLSE means negative feedback is mostly dampened. Viewership is down and so probably is advertising revenues but I'm sure MLSE just writes that off to the pandemic disruption.

 

[sparxx87]

Eh?

Just wanted to know about a player “we’re so lucky our team is so good and he couldn’t make the roster” Leo Komorov... and how to quantify his contributions to winning when he was on the ice to defend a lead in the last minute of a 1 goal playoff game.

...in the second round. Again.

 

[TheDoldrums]

No, that’s not it.

Context is very important.

This is the quote

And perhaps I'm nitpicking, but does he realize that the on ice championship moment belongs to the players that were actually on the ice. Another example of his ego and inexperience.

The context is that Dubas gets criticized for something all GM's do.

Again, I have problems with Dubas but so a lot of these criticisms are so, so stupid.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Just wanted to know about a player “we’re so lucky our team is so good and he couldn’t make the roster” Leo Komorov... and how to quantify his contributions to winning when he was on the ice to defend a lead in the last minute of a 1 goal playoff game.

...in the second round. Again.

Don't know what you're getting at. Leafs were good at keeping leads.

 

[sparxx87]

This is the quote



The context is that Dubas gets criticized for something all GM's do.

Again, I have problems with Dubas but so a lot of these criticisms are so, so stupid.

Do we have any other Calder cup pictures to reference? Honest question.

No doubt coaches and executives lift the Stanley cup, but they’re at the end of the line and it’s usually handed to them while they’re experiencing the real joy celebrating with their players.

Dubas walking up with fists clenched, excited to lift the trophy himself wasn’t the same thing.

 

[sparxx87]

Don't know what you're getting at. Leafs were good at keeping leads.

Maybe, just maybe, a players stats relative to their salary aren’t the best way to judge a players true value.

I mean, he couldn’t even make the Leafs, right?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Do we have any other Calder cup pictures to reference? Honest question.

No doubt coaches and executives lift the Stanley cup, but they’re at the end of the line and it’s usually handed to them while they’re experiencing the real joy celebrating with their players.

Dubas walking up with fists clenched, excited to lift the trophy himself wasn’t the same thing.

Oh so by context you meant moving the goalposts.

But yes, AHL GM's do the same thing. Charlotte won the year after the Marlies.

 

[egd27]

So weird how the last three Cup winning GMs were also so full of ego and inexperience to think they had a right to celebrate with the team they constructed.

There's a lot of legit criticisms of Dubas but stuff like this is just pathetic.

Perhaps, but I did notice a significant difference in the trophies being raised.

Armstrong - 9 years building the Blues
MacLellan - 5 years building the Caps
Neither of these guys look like they just scored the OT goal holding the cup

BriseBois - IMO looks like a dick, just like Kid Kyle

 

[sparxx87]

Oh so by context you meant moving the goalposts.

But yes, AHL GM's do the same thing. Charlotte won the year after the Marlies.

No, I meant have a pulse on the moment in context.

If I have to explain you wouldn’t understand.

 

[egd27]

You mean those guys, along with people like @BoredBrandonPridham who mocked and ridiculed the doubters with regular season stats in the COVID North division?

Haven't seen much of the dynamic duo since the season ended.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Maybe, just maybe, a players stats relative to their salary aren’t the best way to judge a players true value.

I mean, he couldn’t even make the Leafs, right?

I don't think Leafs being out of the playoffs and NYI being in the playoffs means as much as you think it does, in terms of Leo. But I'm all for folks grasping anything they can to find positivity in the loss. Congratulations, friend.

 

[egd27]

and I’d actually exclude Zeke. He believes in his numbers but he’s never disrespectful or condescending when he’s wrong, at least to me.

@Gary Nylund Thoughts on this one?

 

[Aus34Matt]

And perhaps I'm nitpicking, but does he realize that the on ice championship moment belongs to the players that were actually on the ice. Another example of his ego and inexperience.

He really should've been a politician instead.

 

[TheDoldrums]

No, I meant have a pulse on the moment in context.

If I have to explain you wouldn’t understand.

I very much understand why so many of you criticize every single thing Dubas does, trust me. I'm just saying this one is particularly stupid.

 

[theTTC]

They'll be back. They're awaiting instructions on what the new company line will be for the summer of 2021. There are going to be major changes to the company line. What are they going to be: Keefe is now a bad coach? Marner is the only major problem with the team? The team needs stability from constant changes? The team needs to turn to youth as support players over geriatric former stars?

I remember that one account who insisted that Liljegren was a better prospect than Sandin for a really really long time, must have posted 10's of thousands of words on the subject attacking every unsuspecting poster who independently noticed Sandin was progressing way faster. That account disappeared for a few months (one of the above accounts re-appeared coincidentally) and when the account came back it was as if he had never pimped for Liljegren ever.

P.S. Surely some accounts here must be social media influencers. MLSE spends everywhere else, why not on social media as well? And they may not have began their lives as that. I won't speculate as to who specifically. One hint will be if we start hearing rumbling against a certain player(s) out of nowhere. I wouldn't count Marner, that's been going on for several seasons. I do think major changes are floated on social media to groom the fanbase for the shock of major changes.

Simply excellent

 

[Garthinater]

I saw mockery and ridicule from many people (including myself TBH). Some assertions require ridicule but not everything said by those individuals were wrong and quite a bit was right.
Dubas has made some big mistakes but this was his best year for not making mistakes. Will be interesting what management does this coming year. I really doubt they run back the same lineup, same lines and same system.

In 2019 dubas traded kadri for kerfoot and barrie. The dubas fan boys couldn't help but rave over how much of a win it was for us. I tried to tell them otherwise and was mocked.

Same year they said this was the best leaf team we have had in decades. I told them it wasn't and they ridiculed me. Turns out we lost to our own 40 yo emergency back up and lost to a depleted jackets in a 5 round qualifier.

Any time I doubted dubas they mocked me and said I wasn't a real leaf fan. Why does a "real fan" have to agree with every move management makes?

Every move lou makes they trash and they blame as much as possible on him even though he's been gone for 3 years.

They try to give all the credit to trotz when lou is the one who hired him.

It is clear as day which gm is better and yet the dubas fan boys will still tell you otherwise using corsi and xgf lmao

 

[Gallagbi]

He really should've been a politician instead.

Have to say, I don't mind his position.

It's not what I'd choose personally, but we're in a market that reacts and has been relatively quick to change. He's betting on himself and willing to face the consequences along with it. The easy thing to do would be make a major trade. It would likely buy him more time.

 

[sparxx87]

I very much understand why so many of you criticize every single thing Dubas does, trust me. I'm just saying this one is particularly stupid.

People criticize the dumb moves. They credit the smart moves. There’s been wayyyy more dumb than smart, hence the overwhelming criticism.

That’s your opinion. I’ve heard a number of people comment on this, and some posted here something to the effect of “see Dubas with the trophy? “

If you don’t get it, you don’t get it.