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Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

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Fire Shanahan/Dubas?

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Surprised with the amount of people who still stick up for Dubas. We need one of the old boys club to come in and make it right. Rutherford would be perfect. Should’ve never let Lou go. These advanced stat nerds just don’t cut it in the bigs. It’s cute on this site but the reality is it doesn’t work in the real game
 
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Dubas said in constructing his roster — now free of rugged characters like Matt Martin, Leo Komarov and Roman Polak — he looks at the Atlantic Division rivals first.
“For whatever reason, that takes on a life of its own — the whole ‘toughness’ question. I look at Tampa Bay, they’re eight or nine points ahead of us now, and they built their team their way. I understand it’s at every level, whether it’s been Sault Ste. Marie or the Marlies, it’s been the same question,” Dubas said.
“I don’t buy it, myself. I know that there are a lot of pundits that say you have to have it, but I look at the teams that have had success, and I don’t think bringing in one big person is going to change our culture — and it’s not going to have us carry on with the process we’ve started.
“We want to have skill, we want to be fast, and we want to be competitive. I don’t really think that the way that the league is going that having someone that can come in and fight or anything like that is going to change that. We’ve got a way that we want to play, and we’re just going to carry on with that. In the end, people will judge whether it was effective.”

Leafs GM Kyle Dubas talks offer sheets, toughness and blue-line status - Sportsnet.ca

@Rants Mulliniks

Don’t mean to single you out, but you had a particularity obnoxious and delusional post on the trade deadline about this, and how “Dubas knew all along”
 
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Kawhi said:
Surprised with the amount of people who still stick up for Dubas. We need one of the old boys club to come in and make it right. Rutherford would be perfect. Should’ve never let Lou go. These advanced stat nerds just don’t cut it in the bigs. It’s cute on this site but the reality is it doesn’t work in the real game
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Reality is that teams track their own data with high level hockey minds to not only record but evaluate for their players, opponents, matchups, combinations, tendency etc

The stats fans have access to are a business. As I said in another thread, these stats may have you comparing Taylor Hall to Nick Foligno and by chance, realize Anders Bjork is the best of the 3.
 
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“When I get together with some of my old mates from the Cup years in Detroit, we talk about winning together and growing together, and that’s what we remember,” Shanahan said in early October of 2018. “We all found a way to fit with each other so that we could keep adding to the group… That’s obviously what we’re asking some of our young leaders to do."

It’s not a fun conversation, but we cannot strip away the context of how contracts have been handled by this management group to date, either. It’s not the literal $1.5-2 million Mitch Marner is overpaid by that is the really uneasy part here — it’s the culture it creates when the top earners refuse to make even a nominal sacrifice for the sake of the team.

You can argue that Marner and his agent were well within their rights to scratch and claw for every penny, but to be clear, the unyielding “I’m getting mine” attitude was definitely not how the organization saw this playing out. We know this because of a telling quote from Brendan Shanahan when the William Nylander standoff was underway back in 2018.
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Big Offseason Maple Leafs Questions, Part 1: The Zach Hyman contract
 
deprw said:
It's Barry Trotz not Lou Lamoriello that keeps that Isles engine running. One of the best coaches in last two decades. Can adapt, motivate and knows how to build defensive systems. Can also coach offensive players, but in any case can adapt and play the strength of his team.
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Excellent hire. Must have been a smart GM that could choose "one of the best coaches in the last two decades" rather than the first ex-NHLer he knew in the Soo.
 
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I like the job Dubas has done overall. I thought adding Brodie and Bogosian were great moves. Our defensive core looked pretty solid and had depth this year.

Definately his absolute worst move was overpaying Marner. Even then it was a couple million extra or couple years too much. I've seen much worse contracts on the leafs. More bothered by the fact that he gave in to Marners ridiculous contract demands, than the cap hit itself.

I'd say Marner should be traded and/or Keefe gets fired before we fire Dubas.
 
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Papa Cherry said:
I like the job Dubas has done overall. I thought adding Brodie and Bogosian were great moves. Our defensive core looked pretty solid and had depth this year.

Definately his absolute worst move was overpaying Marner. Even then it was a couple million extra or couple years too much. I've seen much worse contracts on the leafs. More bothered by the fact that he gave in to Marners ridiculous contract demands, than the cap hit itself.

I'd say Marner should be traded and/or Keefe gets fired before we fire Dubas.
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Based on his playoff performances he is overpaid by much more than a couple of million. There is hope but he has to get his head out of his ass, and bare down. For crying out loud Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield are small players but they are getting it done. No excuses Mitch or are you just too weak mentally and physically ??
 
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ToneDog said:
Based on his playoff performances he is overpaid by much more than a couple of million. There is hope but he has to get his head out of his ass, and bare down. For crying out loud Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield are small players but they are getting it done. No excuses Mitch or are you just too weak mentally and physically ??
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When was the last time Marner scored a PP goal? A playoff goal? 11 million for a non goal scoring winger? Don’t care if he was a top 5 assist guy in a 56 games season.
How is this reasonable?
 
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ToneDog said:
Based on his playoff performances he is overpaid by much more than a couple of million. There is hope but he has to get his head out of his ass, and bare down. For crying out loud Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield are small players but they are getting it done. No excuses Mitch or are you just too weak mentally and physically ??
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He's mentally weak for sure. He can't handle the pressure. He's gotta use some of that 11 million for a shrink and some Kleenex.
 
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Trapper said:
When was the last time Marner scored a PP goal? A playoff goal? 11 million for a non goal scoring winger? Don’t care if he was a top 5 assist guy in a 56 games season.
How is this reasonable?
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This guy should have been motivated to reward his dumb GM who bent over and overpaid him to the tune of millions and gave him enough money up front to set him up for life. The GM then goes all in on this team and he and Matty lay golden eggs. Leafs fans are still seething over the loss, especially after watching the Habs dismantle the Jets in 4.
 
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deprw said:
It's Barry Trotz not Lou Lamoriello that keeps that Isles engine running. One of the best coaches in last two decades. Can adapt, motivate and knows how to build defensive systems. Can also coach offensive players, but in any case can adapt and play the strength of his team.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, excellent coach. Lou Lam was very lucky to have him in place when he took over.
 
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ToneDog said:
Based on his playoff performances he is overpaid by much more than a couple of million. There is hope but he has to get his head out of his ass, and bare down. For crying out loud Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield are small players but they are getting it done. No excuses Mitch or are you just too weak mentally and physically ??
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And then there's the smoke around the PP. I believe it was CJ who mentioned taking MM off PP1 was a bit tricky. Not the word he used though. And then a few reports about either refusing to play a certain spot on the PP or having a preference. I know some didn't think he'd live up to the contract, but he's not even close now.
 
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centipede2233 said:
I’m all for a marner trade, but if you think matthews is sticking around if that happens, your dreaming. Matthews having 3 yrs left on his deal is an issue, and so if you trade marner, I think you have to trade matthews as well, unless your happy to let him walk in 3 years time.
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The problem is exacerbated by the fact that after next year, there is a one year window to move a disgruntled Matthews before a NMC kicks in if they want any value in moving him before free agency. The choices will be limited.
 
ItsFineImFine said:
People that want to keep the core intact right now are all smart enough to know that cap space is a massive asset and secondly, that if the team fails that bad then it will be time to move on....

.....THEY'VE ALREADY FAILED. Seriously how much more proof do we need here? I'm not saying trade Matthews but at least do the more do-able move of moving on from Marner and freeing up cap space. This team has literally one winger capable of scoring 25+ goals or in the playoffs right now and that's Nylander. We're just wasting Matthews' contract here by continuing to do what isn't working, get the divorce done with now so we might actually have a chance at winning in year 2 or 3 of Matthews' contract.
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what are you going to do with the capspace?
 
Lumberg said:
Mitch felt so bad about losing and performing so poorly that he golfed the next day
Shit I was bummed for days
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Gonna find a way to get your mind off such a terrible loss. Many Leaf fans are still pissed off. Maybe we should try golfing too ;)
 
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