Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[Cobra777]

Bogo will get offers greater thsn the Leafs can afford imo. He earned it too.........

So true, I really hope somehow he comes back as he is that physical stalwart no flash in the pan defenseman who makes few mistakes that we have been searching for a long time. Has a decent shot too, shows promise of carrying the puck and nice outlet passes as well.

 

[17 Clark]

I fully agree back when when Kadri was 2C he had a couple of 30 goal campaigns was decent in the face off circle and played very well in the heavy areas was not shy in the physical department and scored some clutch goals had good skills, decent puck possession and stick handle and a decent shot and he earned it. IMHO he was moved to fit all the big contracts

He upped his game which takes alot of effort only to get demoted to 3C when they brought in JT who at the time even I fell for getting a star player when I knew our defense was questionable and suspect.

After that is when he seemed to fall off in play, late to some meetings and suspended that playoff series against Boston two seasons back to back.

I kept looking at the hits over and over and then keep watching Boston and their antics, Marchand, Chara punching JT in the face bare handed in a scrum to where JT was not even facing him and some of their other forwards dirty plays checks and hits and Kadris hits just started to seem lesser that terrible after taking all into account.

I remember him absolutely smoking Marchand with the hardest hit I have seen on that disturber on a back check in front of our net, one of the most beautiful things I have witnessed.

Yes I know hindsight is 20 but you are right that money could have been allocated to much more needed areas, Our team had a great 2C and he got moved, he had 7 or 8 playoff goals that season with the Avs as I watched every game which shows he is a playoff performer. Yes peeps are going to go on about his suspensions and hits but he scores and is willing to lay the body.

We can sit here and judge, the NHL is a ramped up fast game of seconds and inches when it comes to hits, I make no excuse or defense for him but one thing is I have not seen him stick out a knee on knee and don't think that he intentionally tries to end someones career, bad timing, frustration got the better of him, even happened to Scheiffle.

Look how many times Tom Wilson has faced suspension yet most NHL teams and fans would clamor for a guy like that if he played for your team

Reason I typed this is because so many were against and blamed him for our losses when in fact it was the same guys who played that also did not show up when the chips were down

The odd thing is why was everyone ready to crucify him when he got suspended why was the team on willing to help him He wouldn’t allow a cheap shot on his teammates well our players for the most part stand around and watch it and you got people make it $11 million a year they say it’s just a thing we can fix I wasn’t the biggest supporter of Nazem but where was dubas Advocating for him strange he has his faults but at least he tried

 

[socko]

Kadri is exactly the type of secondary scoring the Leafs are missing but unfortunately he's an idiot. He doesn't get retribution by fighting, he does something illegal and dangerous. He's the kind of player that can make your entire team draw unfavorable calls.

 

[mikeyz]

Golden opportunity squandered... and it doesn’t get any easier next year.

Next season is going to be very interesting.

I would imagine that if Dubas does indeed stand pat and doesn't make any major changes, things are going to get ugly if they stumble out of the gate.

I can very easily see the fans starting a "Fire Dubas/Shanahan" in the stands (assuming we get to that stage where fans are allowed. Hopefully they do)

 

[mikeyz]

I said it earlier and i'll say it again .

Marner is not the player you move , yeah he had a bad playoffs and there's no guarantee he improves in the future but if i'm going to gamble on a player improving i have no issues gambling on a kid that just turned 24 with his talent and regular season production will improve his post season play ,

and it would have been f***ing nice if the chosen one Keefe would have realized that maybe just maybe he could have moved Hyman who was doing nothing but blowing scoring chance after scoring chance off the line and give our top line another shooting option . Unfortunately Dubie's spreadsheet probably spit out the top line was dominating and just to stay the course and they'd eventually break out .

if Dubie wants to save his job and improve the team the player who has to be moved is Tavares , i don't care how or for who , just move him without retention and without cap dumps coming back

I really wish I had your optimism. Lol.

 

[Seras]

Sometimes you do lose to a batter team, and that’s what happened against Washington and Boston. Neither Columbus nor Montreal are better teams - even close. Though, if you really do think they’re better, you just think Toronto is really bad, so I’m not sure why you want to keep this mess together.

I think Montreal was better during the series overall. The leafs were the better team but Habs had the edge in net. Price was rediculois

 

[Cobra777]

The odd thing is why was everyone ready to crucify him when he got suspended why was the team on willing to help him He wouldn’t allow a cheap shot on his teammates or other ones stand around and watch it and you got people make it $11 million a year they say it’s just a thing we can fix I wasn’t the biggest supporter of Nazem but where was dubas Advocating for him strange he has his faults but at least he tried

Everyone puts blame and finds a scapegoat when they don't want to be totally honest in that our star players who played just did not get it done, repeat and repeat.

Kadri got frustrated at watching our guys get run and had the stones albeit a tad too much, but had the stones to do something about it when everyone else cowered to it.

Biggest thing is we missed his style of play and goals in those series because he is one of the few that would have shown up to play in all circumstance, but everyone yes crucified him vs. looking at the bigger problem in the rest of the team passive unwilling to fight through adversity brand of hockey.

I do however give credit 1st series pushing it to a game #7, 2nd series with Boston game 1 this team put on a clinic in Boston whooped them 4-1 I believe in a total satisfying fashion but refuses to put forth that brand consistently, blew both game 6 and 7 leading series 3-2, Yep Kadri very well could have been the difference but still the so called high dollar guys and goaltender choked nothing new here.

Kadri was moved imho because of
JT 11 mill signing and
all the large contracts doled out.

2 more seasons and 2 more choke jobs one not making the playoffs vs. Columbus and this series against the Habs after Kadri's departure displays part of a bigger problem. Yep those suspensions sucked and hurt the team but so does untimely injuries, still had enough so called firepower to get it done.

If I hypothetical had the power to take time back Kadri would still be my 2C and the money from JT spent on a stud D and higher tier younger hungry wingers who embrace physical play vs guys past primes hoping that they could resurrect their games. Spezz is just special nothing needs more to be said.
I'm aware that in hindsight it is easy to make the proper decisions just a path I wished we could have taken instead of this

 

[socko]

You can have Kadri as your 2nd center, but not with Nylander. Their games are completely different. It didn't work with Kadri and Kessel and it wouldn't work with Nylander either. Kadri is more of a checking line scorer than a playmaking center.

 

[Cobra777]

You can have Kadri as your 2nd center, but not with Nylander. Their games are completely different. It didn't work with Kadri and Kessel and it wouldn't work with Nylander either. Kadri is more of a checking line scorer than a playmaking center.

Agreed but at the time one of the top NHL lines 2 seasons consecutive was Hyman, AM, Nylander perhaps Marner could have been better suited with Kadri we will never know or possibly drop Hyman to Kadri's line for a possible checking cycling line that could added offense.

Too late now over spilt milk anyhow.

 

[socko]

Agreed but at the time one of the top NHL lines 2 seasons consecutive was Hyman, AM, Nylander perhaps Marner could have been better suited with Kadri we will never know or possibly drop Hyman to Kadri's line for a possible checking cycling line that could added offense.

Too late now over spilt milk anyhow.

Marner would work with Kadri. I would have liked that before Marner got the stupid money.

 

[sparxx87]

Marner would work with Kadri. I would have liked that before Marner got the stupid money.

I don’t normally reference stats but look up the numbers of when they played together; roughly second half of the year before JT. Marner eventually found himself on Kadri’s wing and it was his first prolonged point per game stretch.

They were very good together.

 

[Cobra777]

I don’t normally reference stats but look up the numbers of when they played together; roughly second half of the year before JT. Marner eventually found himself on Kadri’s wing and it was his first prolonged point per game stretch.

They were very good together.

Thanks for that tidbit I honestly did not remember that(sucks getting old lol)

 

[socko]

I don’t normally reference stats but look up the numbers of when they played together; roughly second half of the year before JT. Marner eventually found himself on Kadri’s wing and it was his first prolonged point per game stretch.

They were very good together.

I was thinking they had a few games together and it went pretty well, but memory is foggy sometimes. I remember Kadri playing with Uncle Leo a lot.

 

[The Legend]

That has always been a negative to me and not a good thing. Think about it...they don't mind coming out slowly or feeling their way into a game because they feel they can just turn it on whenever it's needed and catch up. It gives them an excuse to not come storming out of the gate and I don't like it.

I 1000000% agree with you. It's a massive indictment on the team that they need to come back.

But I was just correcting what is obviously false - the Leafs have come back, and do it very frequently.

 

[The Legend]

When did they recently win a game after coming back from multi goal deficits?

Game 4 against Columbus last year.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Game 4 against Columbus last year.

Which was really great, but they gotta do it in series-clinching games, or better yet get the lead and keep it.

 

[The Legend]

Which was really great, but they gotta do it in series-clinching games, or better yet get the lead and keep it.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[sparxx87]

I was thinking they had a few games together and it went pretty well, but memory is foggy sometimes. I remember Kadri playing with Uncle Leo a lot.

Leo and Kadri were mostly attached at the hip, even going back to the lockout year on the Marlies (Leo’s first in NA), the other wing was a bit of a revolving door.

This was the year where Marner got demoted to the 4th line because JVR-Bozak were struggling defensively... He started making Matt Martin look dangerous, eventually forced a move up with Kadri and has been an elite point producer ever since.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I 1000000% agree with you. It's a massive indictment on the team that they need to come back.

But I was just correcting what is obviously false - the Leafs have come back, and do it very frequently.

I don't know why they act like this during important games...but my guess is that they are too cocky and think they can skill their way out of any messes they themselves are responsible for. I am sure the coaches being smug doesn't help the situation. By smug I mean a PP that floundered for 1/2 a season and they tried practically nothing to fix it. If those are the guys leading these players...no wonder they have no ability to try and win the game right out of the gate.

 

[egd27]

Game 4 against Columbus last year.

LOL.....I guess we have a different definition of "recently"

 

[ottomaddox]

It's out there now.

The fire Keefe talk around the Toronto Media has started.

Sportsnet - Today's Leafs Hour show discussed a possible firing of Sheldon Keefe. That it "has to be on the table now", and that firing him is "a lot easier than trading Marner."

They also are going on the notion that TOR's management team plan on action. According to Friedman: that "they are not going to sit still with what went on."

Leafs Hour - Sportsnet.ca

 

[hotpaws]

Then move JT and get a 5 mil 2C.
But we have to shed one of the 3 double digits.
And Marner didn’t just have a bad playoff.
Bad playoffs. Sorry, I know some like him, assist guy, but he has 5 career playoff goals.
scored primarily in the first 2 years with quality depth. Not for 11 million if the cap. No how, no way.

I'm not trying to defend Marner or his cap hit , i'm just saying i haven't written him off as a playoff producer and while i believe and have said from the beginning he's overpaid i'd still rather have him on the team than trading him for a pkg of lesser pieces .

 

[Stephen]

It's out there now.

The fire Keefe talk around the Toronto Media has started.

Sportsnet - Today's Leafs Hour show discussed a possible firing of Sheldon Keefe. That it "has to be on the table now", and that firing him is "a lot easier than trading Marner."

They also are going on the notion that TOR's management team plan on action. According to Friedman: that "they are not going to sit still with what went on."

Leafs Hour - Sportsnet.ca

Leafs Hour is on the war path, and it's got the pulse of the fanbase. Keefe is a major suspect and the other one is Mitch Marner. 50% of it is cap related and 50% is his play and reticent almost defiant attitude about any critique about his game.

Everything else can be fine tuned but those two are massive problems.

 

[Trapper]

Leafs Hour is on the war path, and it's got the pulse of the fanbase. Keefe is a major suspect and the other one is Mitch Marner. 50% of it is cap related and 50% is his play and reticent almost defiant attitude about any critique about his game.

Everything else can be fine tuned but those two are massive problems.

It should filter back up to the top as well.
I am so very disappointed in Shanahan.
I thought he was cut from the same cloth as Neely in Boston.

Then he brought in Lou and it was like he gets this. You look at Jersey with guys like Stevens and Daneyko, solid system but he also mixed Neidermayer, Sykora, Elias skill that worked hard.

I thought that’s what we were getting but instead we got the billionaire boys club.
The boy band one direction but it’s the wrong direction. Shame on you Shanahan.

 

[ottomaddox]

Leafs Hour is on the war path, and it's got the pulse of the fanbase. Keefe is a major suspect and the other one is Mitch Marner. 50% of it is cap related and 50% is his play and reticent almost defiant attitude about any critique about his game.

Everything else can be fine tuned but those two are massive problems.

Are they ever. I feel bad for Justin Bourne who is playing the good side/defending TOR. His lighter side doesn't seem to cool fans down at all.