Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[JT AM da real deal]

Tampa --- 8 forwards + 3 defense + 1 tender over 4M AAV per ------- 12 players
Toronto --- 4 forwards + 3 defense + 1 tender over 4M AAV per ------- 8 players

Somehow Tampa has double da firepower up front + da better defense + da better tender at SAME CAP + a SC + a couple good playoff runs

Bottom line it is poor management which got us here

 

[sparxx87]

The Bolts can win several different ways. The Leafs? Not so much. If their top salary players have a dry spell, they’re pucked.

Tampa has more to fall back on, and I’d bet my left nut they beat Montréal 4 out of 7, even without Stamkos and only 1 goal and 10 points from Point and Kucherov.

 

[mikeyz]

Not even surprised by the yes votes anymore, team didn't win the cup so must be bad, fire everyone, replace all our players with mystery boxes and get rid of coach, gm, etc...

Keep at it guys

Yeah, why should we be pissed off? We have every reason to be optimistic.

The Leafs only blew a 3-1 series lead to a team who under a normal season wouldn’t have even made the playoffs, our 2 stars didn’t show up at all in games 5-7. Especially game 7, 5 straight 1st round exits, little to no cap space to improve the team Etc.

Yeah..... Why is everyone SO negative in here????? It absolutely BOGGLES MY MIND!!!!!!!!!

 

[IPS]

The Bolts can win several different ways. The Leafs? Not so much. If their top salary players have a dry spell, they’re pucked.

Tampa has more to fall back on, and I’d bet my left nut they beat Montréal 4 out of 7, even without Stamkos and only 1 goal and 10 points from Point and Kucherov.

Of course they can. They could have beat Montreal without both Kuch and Stamkos because they also know how to play a proficient defense-first style and grind out 2-1 wins.

 

[Trapper]

Both the Burns and Quinn era teams were more successful. On top of having more success, those teams had players who actually elevated their level of play when games mattered and opponents brought max effort every shift, as opposed to failing to play to their standards and abilities for five straight post seasons.

I thought Shanahan would bring that good Pat Quinn Irish, blue collar, skill and hard work.
Not even close.
Damn I miss Pat Quinn

 

[sparxx87]

I thought Shanahan would bring that good Pat Quinn Irish, blue collar, skill and hard work.
Not even close.
Damn I miss Pat Quinn

So many questions.

Oddly enough, he stopped coming to our golf tournament when he got a job with the Leafs. I don’t think he wants to sit at a table with a bunch of Leaf fans with a lot of questions.

 

[sparxx87]

I thought Shanahan would bring that good Pat Quinn Irish, blue collar, skill and hard work.
Not even close.
Damn I miss Pat Quinn

Irish, Turkish, Pinkish. I don’t care... just someone with a fundamental understanding of the game and awareness of the culture ever present in successful teams.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The Bolts can win several different ways. The Leafs? Not so much. If their top salary players have a dry spell, they’re pucked.

Tampa has more to fall back on, and I’d bet my left nut they beat Montréal 4 out of 7, even without Stamkos and only 1 goal and 10 points from Point and Kucherov.

Vegas/Avs over Habs in 4 games
Tampa over Bruins in 5 maybe 6 games
3 Atlantic division teams in league semis .. should have been us

 

[sparxx87]

Vegas/Avs over Habs in 4 games
Tampa over Bruins in 5 maybe 6 games
3 Atlantic division teams in league semis .. should have been us

Golden opportunity squandered... and it doesn’t get any easier next year.

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah, why should we be pissed off? We have every reason to be optimistic.

The Leafs only blew a 3-1 series lead to a team who under a normal season wouldn’t have even made the playoffs, our 2 stars didn’t show up at all in games 5-7. Especially game 7, 5 straight 1st round exits, little to no cap space to improve the team Etc.

Yeah..... Why is everyone SO negative in here????? It absolutely BOGGLES MY MIND!!!!!!!!!

I don't get it either , it's like a mystery wrapped in a riddle .

maybe the Chinese farmer has the answer

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Golden opportunity squandered... and it doesn’t get any easier next year.

I think we will be outside of playoffs next year TBH .. Florida 1st Tampa or boston 2nd/3rd really neither care about placing and reality is there will likely be 5 teams from Metro .. so even 4th in Atlantic is not playoff bound .. Carolina, Islanders, Pens and Caps are in ... Flyers likely back with better tending .. so there is a good chance we miss next year .. Habs and Sens rook lineups will get better too so they will take more points from us even in a 4th place finish .. if we do nothing with Shanny/Dubie/Keefer and keep Mitch I think it is a good bet we miss next year completely

 

[socko]

Both the Burns and Quinn era teams were more successful. On top of having more success, those teams had players who actually elevated their level of play when games mattered and opponents brought max effort every shift, as opposed to failing to play to their standards and abilities for five straight post seasons.

Who the Shanny era really reminds me of is the late 80s Leafs. Lots of talent. Completely wasted. Like when they traded Courtnall for Kordic. Kind of like blowing a 1st round pick on an aging role player with a bad back.

 

[sparxx87]

I think we will be outside of playoffs next year TBH .. Florida 1st Tampa or boston 2nd/3rd really neither care about placing and reality is there will likely be 5 teams from Metro .. so even 4th in Atlantic is not playoff bound .. Carolina, Islanders, Pens and Caps are in ... Flyers likely back with better tending .. so there is a good chance we miss next year .. Habs and Sens rook lineups will get better too so they will take more points from us even in a 4th place finish .. if we do nothing with Shanny/Dubie/Keefer and keep Mitch I think it is a good bet we miss next year completely

Yeah. I’ve had this discussion with a few friends and it’s very possible. They’re going to be thin on margin for error, that’s for sure.

Very interesting to see how their roster takes shape for next year. I want to see it before I bet.

 

[Cobra777]

I totally agree with your the post but the one problem is if they find a coach that tries to teach them by Toughlove they’ll stop playing and he’ll get fired who would want to coach here If you’re sitting on pins and needles ask yourself that

Totally agree with you and that is why Dubas must step back and let that coach have full autonomy over the players as long as he does not step over the line like Babcock has with many players as he ruined some players. However a tough coach who within dynamics who rewards players for hard work, ethics creates a positive atmosphere for those who adhere and chastises and calls out players who want to carry on with half efforts and brings them to accountability. Management has to STOP coddling to players feelings if that is the case and change and move those who gripe and sulk.
They get paid a kings ransom to perform at the highest levels and truly have 0 reason to gripe about accountability and management should take this stance and fully back it if they truly want success for this franchise

If they do not and carry on as everything is a meadow then all their words and promises is nothing but a total FARCE.

 

[4thline]

Shanny/Dubie/Keefer and keep Mitch I think it is a good bet we miss next year completely

In a way the stubborness is almost admirable. There are is only one reason not to trade Mitch Marner this year, and it's because you believe he can not only replicate his regular season success in the playoffs, but find another gear as a player. Betting everything on that when a single trade is such an easy lifeline will lead to either going to go down in hockey history as stubborn hubris or true faith/foresight.

I'd make the trade.

 

[sparxx87]

In a way the stubborness is almost admirable. There are is only one reason not to trade Mitch Marner this year, and it's because you believe he can not only replicate his regular season success in the playoffs, but find another gear as a player. Betting everything on that when a single trade is such an easy lifeline will lead to either going to go down in hockey history as stubborn hubris or true faith/foresight.

This I 100% agree with. Trading Marner right now is a dangerous game. Hard to win and very easy to lose.

Salary numbers are locked in so this is a tough fix. The biggest opportunity for an impact move, for better or worse, is trading Marner.

Real, real tough one.

 

[sparxx87]

As @Trapper said, it’s a lot easier to shuffle the deck without $11M for Tavares without trading Marner. Something you really don’t want to do.

 

[socko]

I can't think of a player I've wanted more to see traded than Marner. And I've been a fan of this team since 1985.

 

[Cobra777]

It's almost like someone planted a macro-virus in our spreadsheet.

lmao

 

[sparxx87]

I can't think of a player I've wanted more to see traded than Marner. And I've been a fan of this team since 1985.

Fair enough, I’ll rephrase;

Whether or not to trade Marner in attempt to restructure your team isn’t the ideal decision you want to be making at this point.

 

[4thline]

This I 100% agree with. Trading Marner right now is a dangerous game. Hard to win and very easy to lose.

Salary numbers are locked in so this is a tough fix. The biggest opportunity for an impact move, for better or worse, is trading Marner.

Real, real tough one.

Personally I'd have the decision not to move Marner as one the the more firable offenses and a big step out the door. I like most of what he's done with the org, will defend the JT signing and Matthews contract to death, but his believe in Mitch Marner- both in terms of his contract and not trading him, will be his downfall.

 

[sparxx87]

Personally I'd have the decision not to move Marner as one the the more firable offenses and a big step out the door. I like most of what he's done with the org, will defend the JT signing and Matthews contract to death, but his believe in Mitch Marner- both in terms of his contract and not trading him, will be his downfall.

Yeah, only problem is that it’s very easy to lose a trade when you give up the best player. I need to be very sure of what I’m getting back.

I don’t think Dubas ever got up to fall down and can count what moves I’ve liked on one hand... but I agree the outrageous salary to a winger who can’t score when it matters is a huge, huge anchor right now. And the inflated salary lessens his value as a trade asset.

Real tough decisions to be made.

 

[hotpaws]

I said it earlier and i'll say it again .

Marner is not the player you move , yeah he had a bad playoffs and there's no guarantee he improves in the future but if i'm going to gamble on a player improving i have no issues gambling on a kid that just turned 24 with his talent and regular season production will improve his post season play ,

and it would have been f***ing nice if the chosen one Keefe would have realized that maybe just maybe he could have moved Hyman who was doing nothing but blowing scoring chance after scoring chance off the line and give our top line another shooting option . Unfortunately Dubie's spreadsheet probably spit out the top line was dominating and just to stay the course and they'd eventually break out .

if Dubie wants to save his job and improve the team the player who has to be moved is Tavares , i don't care how or for who , just move him without retention and without cap dumps coming back

 

[4thline]

Yeah, only problem is that it’s very easy to lose a trade when you give up the best player. I need to be very sure of what I’m getting back.
.

From the outside/media perspective yes, but if it accomplishes your objectives it accomplishes your objectives. It comes down to belief. If he can elevate and get it done in the playoffs he's a HOF player, and this core will start winning. If he's not who cares if he keeps putting up flashy reg season numbers move his ass for a solid 60 point winger and some futures, reallocate the cap.

 

[Egghead1999]

This I 100% agree with. Trading Marner right now is a dangerous game. Hard to win and very easy to lose.

Salary numbers are locked in so this is a tough fix. The biggest opportunity for an impact move, for better or worse, is trading Marner.

Real, real tough one.

I will not say it is a dangerous game. It is a "post advanced level" game. If Marner is trade, it cannot be another Kadri trade. It must be Marner plus a D for Jones plus a RW, or Marner for a #1 C.