Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[egd27]

When Patrick Kane signed his contract he was a 2 time Stanley Cup champion, 1 time Conn Smythe winner, and had 37 goals and 91 points in 93 playoff games.

When Marner signed his obscene contact he had 5 goals and 17 points in 20 playoff games. Never making it out of the first round.

He brings that up as a comparable, I spit out my milk and have to excuse myself for a change of clothes.

But he didn't......he said JT & AM both got $11M and I had more points so I should get similar dough. And Kid Kyle couldn't come up with a suitable retort, and was scared shitless of another hold out like the prior year.

 

[Gabriel426]

When Kane signed his 1st non ELC contract he had won none of those things. That 1st non ELC contract translates to ~9.5x5 under todays cap.

Didnt Kane won a Cup during his ELC years?

 

[sparxx87]

But he didn't......he said JT & AM both got $11M and I had more points so I should get similar dough. And Kid Kyle couldn't come up with a suitable retort, and was scared shitless of another hold out like the prior year.

Sorry Mitch, but this is a business. Right now RW Nikita Kucherov is who you’re looking up at.

Patrick Kane is where we hope to be in 5-7 years.

 

[Gabriel426]

It doesn't matter how much AM or JT or Marner is signed for. It matters whether they produce in the playoffs or not.
If the Leafs are still playing and they are the ones leading the charge, who cares if they make 20mil/season.
JT was injured.
AM and Marner both didn't show up. They need to know that they are getting paid to lead the team both regular and playoffs.
By leading, it means completely dominating at least 2-3 games per series. It all starts with dominating each shifts, then each periods, each games and each series. As of now, they could hardly dominated shift in and shift out.

 

[4thline]

Touché.

... but honestly, any team losing their best player is probably pucked anyway.

Taking that further
... but honestly, any team losing 1 of their three best players and having the other two ghost a series is probably pucked anyway

 

[Carltons Cup]

I just listened to Shanny's post season presser again.

It sounds like the same presser after we lost to Columbus. Same rhetoric, different year.

I want to vomit...

 

[4thline]

Didnt Kane won a Cup during his ELC years?

He signed in December of the 3rd year

 

[sparxx87]

Taking that further
... but honestly, any team losing 1 of their three best players and having the other two ghost a series is probably pucked anyway

True.. but I guess I’d expect a true contender to beat all the pretenders if they’re structured and coached right.

Islanders lost Anders Lee whose their captain and top 3 fwd. Still beat the Pens and now fighting the Bruins tooth and nail.

Lightning won last year without Stamkos.

 

[socko]

But he didn't......he said JT & AM both got $11M and I had more points so I should get similar dough. And Kid Kyle couldn't come up with a suitable retort, and was scared shitless of another hold out like the prior year.

I've little doubt that Kyle would have had to sit them out. I would have had no problem doing it. It would have started with Nylander. I would have missed out on the $10.2 million cap hit for Nylander to come in during January and try and get himself into shape. Watching him suck wind while people skate around him. And those 7 goals he scored in 54 games.

 

[rumman]

I just listened to Shanny's post season presser again.

It sounds like the same presser after we lost to Columbus. Same rhetoric, different year.

I want to vomit...

He started the presser by apologizing to the fans, then spits in their faces by spewing the same regurgitated crag from the previous year........

 

[4thline]

True.. but I guess I’d expect a true contender to beat all the pretenders if they’re structured and coached right.

Islanders lost Anders Lee whose their captain and top 3 fwd. Still fighting the Bruins tooth and nail.

Lightning won last year without Stamkos.

Anders Lee was lost in the season, and they backfilled with Palmieri. They aren't doing it losing Nelson game 1 with Barzal and Eberle throwing up donuts

Do the lighting win last year without Stamkos AND Kucherov Point throwing up donuts? Not going to check game logs, but 21 goals between them over the whole run has me thinking that it's unlikely that any single series had only 1 between them.

 

[rumman]

I've little doubt that Kyle would have had to sit them out. I would have had no problem doing it. It would have started with Nylander. I would have missed out on the $10.2 million cap hit for Nylander to come in during January and try and get himself into shape. Watching him suck wind while people skate around him. And those 7 goals he scored in 54 games.

Oh how things could have been different if boy wonder had only showed WN that in RFA negotiations, the team not the player wields the hammer.........

 

[ottomaddox]

He started the presser by apologizing to the fans, then spits in their faces by spewing the same regurgitated crag from the previous year........

I've been through a lot with this team. This year's experience was the worst I can remember. I can't get over how angry I am at this group of players, management, and coach.

 

[koyvoo]

No, let’s regress even more for another 2-3 seasons before thinking about new management.

 

[rumman]

I've been through a lot with this team. This year's experience was the worst I can remember. I can't get over how angry I am at this group of players, management, and coach.

All committed under the watchful eye of ownership.......pathetic.

 

[sparxx87]

Anders Lee was lost in the season, and they backfilled with Palmieri. They aren't doing it losing Nelson game 1 with Barzal and Eberle throwing up donuts

Do the lighting win last year without Stamkos AND Kucherov Point throwing up donuts? Not going to check game logs, but 21 goals between them over the whole run has me thinking that it's unlikely that any single series had only 1 between them.

Oh of course. Players have to step up, but again, because it’s so much about matchups, more good players will give you more advantages.

Tampa needed Kucherov and Point, for sure. $15-16M for two guys who’ve proven to elevate in the playoffs is a good bet. With still room to fit a top 6 forward before they reach $22m of M&M

 

[4thline]

Oh of course. Players have to step up, but again, because it’s so much about matchups, more good players will give you more advantages.

Tampa needed Kucherov and Point, for sure. $15-16M for two guys who’ve proven to elevate in the playoffs is a good bet.

So you agree that Tampa, the epitome of a well structured, deep team, defending Stanley cup champion, would have been unlikely to win with a 1 goal showing from Point/Kucherov?

I think that there's a lot of emotion right now leading to a lot of anger being thrown at causes that didn't exist.

Losing JT sucks, but injuries happen. If we lose this series with no JT, but Matthews/Marner deliver 7 goals between them while being point per game and our depth gets run over, sure blame Dubas, fire Dubas. But that's not what happened.

 

[Dough72]

I doubt any team president in any sport has lasted through 5 crushing first round exits in a row without being fired. I don't know what makes Shanahan so special he hasn't been fired already.

 

[sparxx87]

So you agree that Tampa, the epitome of a well structured, deep team, defending Stanley cup champion, would have been unlikely to win with a 1 goal showing from Point/Kucherov?

I ninja edited. Who are some players that fit in the cap for the difference of Matthews/Marner to Kucherov/Point?

How many goals does the unknown top 6 player score?

 

[Aus34Matt]

Because the JT accident happened, it automatically gave this leadership group a pass until next year.

 

[4thline]

I ninja edited. Who are some players that fit in the cap for the difference of Matthews/Marner to Kucherov/Point?

How many goals does the unknown top 6 player score?

That's irrelevant, we don't have to map their structure onto the Leafs, because we're talking about the Lightning as constructed. Even with those much cheaper deals, and the depth it afforded them, they don't over come the loss of Stamkos if those two don't deliver.

 

[socko]

Because the JT accident happened, it automatically gave this leadership group a pass until next year.

I personally don't think it mattered. I have no way to prove that. Just my gut feeling. From Shanahan on down I don't believe anyone wants to make changes. If changes are ever made below Shanahan, it will be from pressure above. These guys are ok with just being high paid losers.

 

[sparxx87]

That's irrelevant, we don't have to map their structure onto the Leafs, because we're talking about the Lightning as constructed. Even with those much cheaper deals, and the depth it afforded them, they don't over come the loss of Stamkos if those two don't deliver.

I don’t think so. When the discussion is about salary cap structure, Tampa Bay sets the bar, and any road to a cup is likely to go through them, or someone better in the coming years.

Why is it irrelevant to measure yourself against the best competition?

 

[sparxx87]

@4thline

The issue for me is weakness at centre ice after the top 2. Good teams have 3 very good centres and often a collection of players on the wing or farther down that can pass.

The roster right now is fundamentally flawed based on what I see vs other successful teams.

 

[4thline]

I don’t think so. When the discussion is about salary cap structure, Tampa Bay sets the bar, and any road to a cup is likely to go through them, or someone better in the coming years.

But the point I'm making is that judging a loss on the standard of "a true contender with a better structure would win" when literally the best example of a true contender with a great structure *wouldn't* overcome the specific injury/ no show hurdles is intellectually dishonest.

Tampa loses to Montreal with no Stamkos and 1 goal from Kucherov/Point
Tampa loses to Toronto with no Stamkos and 1 goal from Kucherov/Point

Edit- and you C depth point is a perfectly valid opinon- but the Montreal series does not vindicate it, because all things equal a better 3C wouldn't accomplish more than Matthews/Marner showing up.