Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[socko]

If Matthews is going to walk, trade him in the offseason the year before his final season. You'll get a great return. You can't let the inmates run the asylum, Dubas should run the team until he is fired (the sooner the better).

 

[ItsFineImFine]

-Fourth, if we let some combination of the Big 4 walk we will have ton of cap space flexibility to remake the franchise. Obviously you don't want to get to that point and hope we can make serious inroads to a championship, but that cap space is a massive asset in and of itself. If we are mired in so much failure, we'll be happy to sign those divorce papers.

People that want to keep the core intact right now are all smart enough to know that cap space is a massive asset and secondly, that if the team fails that bad then it will be time to move on....

.....THEY'VE ALREADY FAILED. Seriously how much more proof do we need here? I'm not saying trade Matthews but at least do the more do-able move of moving on from Marner and freeing up cap space. This team has literally one winger capable of scoring 25+ goals or in the playoffs right now and that's Nylander. We're just wasting Matthews' contract here by continuing to do what isn't working, get the divorce done with now so we might actually have a chance at winning in year 2 or 3 of Matthews' contract.

 

[17 Clark]

If Matthews is going to walk, trade him in the offseason the year before his final season. You'll get a great return. You can't let the inmates run the asylum, Dubas should run the team until he is fired (the sooner the better).

Personally this incompetent pencil pusher should not be leading one more draft take your analytics and go somewhere else bye Kyle

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Taxes baby, to these Generation Whatevers it is all about the money. He would be paying 1/3 to 1/4 less taxes in the U.S. He is also an American. We, as Canadians, are stuck with the questionable decisions our leaders make. He has to be disgusted by what has gone on here. If he had been in the States, he would have been free to move around maskless for quite some time.

And he got Covid by being able to walk around maskless in the states.

 

[mikeyz]

Personally this incompetent pencil pusher should not be leading one more draft take your analytics and go somewhere else bye Kyle

I want Dubas out of here too, but make no mistake about it. The players have to be held accountable now too.

 

[darrylsittler27]

I would say the rebuild has lost a ton of momentum on the present oriented trades and bleed out of own rentals over the past 4-5 years and generally underwhelming drafting outside the first round. They need a pretty dramatic offseason to trade away, restructure the cap and buy heavy in free agency to get things back on track in an upward climb.

But if the Leafs were ever to actually take the team apart, there’s a lot of value on the roster that would bring boat loads of assets for a retool. Not that worried about that.

No, Im worried they wont do it. Marner has to go, we can't afford him. Not only that we likely lose Holl to Kracken and Muzzin is now old and injury prone. Our backend needs work and we need a new number one goalie with Campbell as our number 2. The focus must go off these top 4. You cant trade Mathews,yet, Nylander was the only one who showed up and Tavares may retire. But team culture is crap and our coach is garbage, the same disease returned. Dump Marner for 4 firsts or Eicehl, get a stud dman somehow and new number one goalie plus fire Keefe. Wont happen, this management team is crud and you know it.

 

[hockeyes]

If Matthews is going to walk, trade him in the offseason the year before his final season. You'll get a great return. You can't let the inmates run the asylum, Dubas should run the team until he is fired (the sooner the better).

I think when he is eligible to sign an extension his NMC also kicks in for the final year. If that's the case, it would be very easy for him and his agent to string the Leafs along.

 

[Stephen]

No, Im worried they wont do it. Marner has to go, we can't afford him. Not only that we likely lose Holl to Kracken and Muzzin is now old and injury prone. Our backend needs work and we need a new number one goalie with Campbell as our number 2. The focus must go off these top 4. You cant trade Mathews,yet, Nylander was the only one who showed up and Tavares may retire. But team culture is crap and our coach is garbage, the same disease returned. Dump Marner for 4 firsts or Eicehl, get a stud dman somehow and new number one goalie plus fire Keefe. Wont happen, this management team is crud and you know it.

The Leafs have bet heavy on inexperience at every level and frankly it shows. Literally everyone is learning on the job at the same time.

President - first time.
General Manager - first time.
Coach - first time.
Core - first round virgins.
Goalie - first starting gig.

 

[darrylsittler27]

The Leafs have bet heavy on inexperience at every level and frankly it shows. Literally everyone is learning on the job at the same time.

President - first time.
General Manager - first time.
Coach - first time.
Core - first round virgins.
Goalie - first starting gig.

We must never overlook the achilles heal of the Leafs. No star goalie, team culture, bad coach, stupid GM full of myths and fantasy stats and former player who went soft.

 

[egd27]

I don't buy the narrative of Matthews bolting to free agency for a number of reasons.

-First of all, not a lot of teams in competitive situations will be able to cleave $12 million or whatever it is to fit Matthews in while keeping their winning recipe intact. So it's simply financial.

-Second, if in three years, Matthews fails to get over the first round hump or build a playoff track record, he will be a 27 year old chronic non big game player. So much of that early career potential will have been wasted.

-Third, Matthews leaving the marquee franchise that is essentially his team to "Taylor Hall" it somewhere else would be a admission of failure as a franchise changing player.

-Fourth, if we let some combination of the Big 4 walk we will have ton of cap space flexibility to remake the franchise. Obviously you don't want to get to that point and hope we can make serious inroads to a championship, but that cap space is a massive asset in and of itself. If we are mired in so much failure, we'll be happy to sign those divorce papers.

Respectfully Stephen, I am not convinced by your arguments here.

IMO......unless AM34 has a major change of attitude, he will happily take the money from one of the SouthWest US teams, and claim he needs a fresh start closer to home.

I just don't see him having the type of will to win as a Crosby, or Toews, or even a Marchand or ROR.

Again, just my opinion, but I think he quite happy just scoring goals and being a "star".

 

[Stephen]

Respectfully Stephen, I am not convinced by your arguments here.

IMO......unless AM34 has a major change of attitude, he will happily take the money from one of the SouthWest US teams, and claim he needs a fresh start closer to home.

I just don't see him having the type of will to win as a Crosby, or Toews, or even a Marchand or ROR.

Again, just my opinion, but I think he quite happy just scoring goals and being a "star".

I think you're just compositing some kind of Kawhi Leonard doomsday scenario to this situation, and thrown out a lot of the good that Matthews has brought via association with Mitch Marner's more public meltdown. So much will be determined in the next three years.

 

[Trapper]

I want Dubas out of here too, but make no mistake about it. The players have to be held accountable now too.

The players have to own it for sure.
But a lot of posters are scared to death about dealing a Marner because they have only ever known loss or can’t envision how a balanced team can succeed where a top heavy one is failing.

That being said, the best of both worlds is to remove the GM. This person can come in with no bias, no promises, doesn’t have to remove the core immediately but can let it be known changes are on the horizon. Who stays and who goes depends on work ethic, playoff intensity and preparation as much as fancy dangles or regular season.

 

[egd27]

I think you're just compositing some kind of Kawhi Leonard doomsday scenario to this situation, and thrown out a lot of the good that Matthews has brought via association with Mitch Marner's more public meltdown. So much will be determined in the next three years.

Perhaps (though I'm not a BBall fan and never really gave Kawhi a second thought).......guess we'll see how it plays out.

 

[Mitch Matthews]

The only way you can fire them both is if you're prepared to also clean house at the player level. Meaning Matthews and/or Marner. As it stands, Dubas' hands are tied as to what he can do. Meaning he's f'd

 

[Stephen]

Perhaps (though I'm not a BBall fan and never really gave Kawhi a second thought).......guess we'll see how it plays out.

Just doesn't seem like something to be overly worried about. If the Leafs get things back on track Matthews will want to be here, and if things go sideways maybe the Leafs will want to go in another direction in a few years time.

 

[Stephen]

The only way you can fire them both is if you're prepared to also clean house at the player level. Meaning Matthews and/or Marner. As it stands, Dubas' hands are tied as to what he can do. Meaning he's f'd

Changes definitely need to happen at a player level, but I would be very careful to not lump Matthews and Marner together as massive culprits. The blame is still mostly on Marner. Like 80% of it.

 

[Mitch Matthews]

Leafs aren't going anywhere until those horrible $33m per year contracts expire in 3 and 4 years - Tavares/Matthews/Marner

 

[killer1980]

Leafs aren't going anywhere until those horrible $33m per year contracts expire in 3 and 4 years - Tavares/Matthews/Marner

100% Matthews is gone when his contract is up. He demonstrated just how much he wanted to be here during the playoffs. He'll pad his stats floating around the perimeter and one timing it during the regular season but he ain't mucking it up at crunch time. Somebody south of the border will gobble him up and I say good look to him and them.

 

[Martin Skoula]

If Matthews is going to walk, trade him in the offseason the year before his final season. You'll get a great return. You can't let the inmates run the asylum, Dubas should run the team until he is fired (the sooner the better).

He has an NMC in the last year, you have to make that call earlier. Summer of 23 would be his peak value after we pay his bonus, his real cash paid out would be around 9 mil total over 2 years.

Edit: misread, you said the same thing.

 

[Mitch Matthews]

Changes definitely need to happen at a player level, but I would be very careful to not lump Matthews and Marner together as massive culprits. The blame is still mostly on Marner. Like 80% of it.

Fair enough.

The funny thing is, If Dubas could go back and change one thing, I'm 100% sure it wouldn't be the Nylander, Matthews or Marner contracts, it would be the Tavares signing. That was a blunder of epic proportions. If that signing never happened, we get Nylander at around $5.5m max, Matthews at $8m max and Marner at $7m max.

On the bright side though, good thing Matthews and Marner didn't sign for 8 years

 

[Stephen]

100% Matthews is gone when his contract is up. He demonstrated just how much he wanted to be here during the playoffs. He'll pad his stats floating around the perimeter and one timing it during the regular season but he ain't mucking it up at crunch time. Somebody south of the border will gobble him up and I say good look to him and them.

Matthews looked great in Game 2 and was still very competitive and physical up till the end of Game 4.

 

[Mitch Matthews]

Matthews looked great in Game 2 and was still very competitive and physical up till the end of Game 4.

Yeah, It was like he just decided to stop playing. Went invisible lol

 

[Stephen]

Yeah, It was like he just decided to stop playing. Went invisible lol

That's a work in progress I have time for. I have less time for a guy who people overrate as the new Patrick Kane, whose accomplishments consist of being great on the PK (until the meltdown).

 

[hotpaws]

Leafs aren't going anywhere until those horrible $33m per year contracts expire in 3 and 4 years - Tavares/Matthews/Marner

the problem is and has always been the JT signing , Dubas gave him an absurd contract then tried to spin it as a discount

M and M watched him for a season and said f*** a discount we're better than him and used his deal as the floor in negotiations

Marner may have shit the bed in the playoffs but he's a top 5 point producer and a large reason Mathews ran away with the rocket so i'll easily gamble keeping him at his age and hope he improves in the post season . You don't trade a kid that produces like he does and elevates his line mates regardless of how poorly he did in the playoffs .

Dubas only hope to save his job and improve the team is to have the nuts and luck to move JT since this team is going no where with him chewing up 11m of cap .

 

[Cobra777]

Personally I think we need a proven NHL coach that demands accountability and a hard work ethic, someone who earned respect and authority due to success(whomever that may be) and Dubas to stay out of the coaches hair and have trust in the coach to run daily team operations as he sees fit without meddling. Like most teams the GM works with the coach to acquire players in trust of that said coaches needs rather than making decisions for the coach on who to acquire, should be a joint decision.

Personally Dubas can make good moves and has smarts to do so, but he has to stop being the players best friends and in team meetings or whatever tell them " Guys this changes, we are here to win and to succeed or else major changes are on the horizon, you play hard with a serious drive or we will replace you with those who will, It will be franchise 1st from now on and want everything from you all that takes to win. We will no longer give in to a losing culture here".

Time to start putting some fear into all these friendships of players who seem to have too much influence not mentioning names that it can and will be broken up if results repeat themselves.

Time for management to get stern and if not willing then replace them by all means