Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[killer1980]

Hundred percent they blew it. This was the easiest path they're going to have and they choked.

I still think Dubas did a good job changing this team from last season. He had the big to work around. Gave us depth, leadership and some toughness while improving our D and not losing major assets.

I think Dubas did a good enough job and the players are the ones responsible. Keefe needs to hold guys more accountable as well. Hes too soft on these guys.

I'm sorry but I'm confused by this reasoning. Dubas picked good players but the players suck. How does that make them good players or him a good GM. A real hockey player shows how good he is in the post season. It is the GM's responsibility to evaluate just how good a player will be at crunch time. How often do these guys have to prove to you just how inept they are? And. please don't talk to me about the regular season. Real hockey players don't care about the regular season, unless of course, all they care about is individual awards.

 

[81Leafs50]

I completely agree that winning is hard. And I do think there is a lot of luck involved in winning the the NHL playoffs. But it is tough to see our same core flounder as they have since they got here, and not step up to the plate and win even a series for us.

I agree with trading Mitch for the right deal. He is still a 90pt player, you don't give them away, but if another team is looking for a change (Eichel, Jones, whatever else is out there) you definitely have to explore it.

Same core or same ol Mitch?

Nylander was fine. Tavares didnt play. Matthews scored.

Its Mitch. the playmaker that is supposed to make the PP better? The playmaker that supposedly made Tavares better. The playmaker that assisted on Matthews Rocket Richard season?

Nah. Auston is great. Tavares is great. Nylader is great. Mitch is a loser. How can an NHL player be elite, if he doesn't have an NHL shot? he cant score. HE is excess baggage.

 

[81Leafs50]

No one asks a cup in here, people are talking about the 1st round. ANyway, Shark was a country club culture club, and Leafs had their 2 biggest stars

I do agree that MM needs to be traded, best for both parties.

its just Mitch. Matthews is a stud. Nylander put Marner behind him and isn't ever going to look back.

Marner is dropping in the depth chart.

Leafs will never trade Matthews. Tavares is the captain. Willy is bang for the buck. Reilly is a good dman. Marner is 5th best player on the Leafs in terms of importance (maybe 6th if you add Campbell).

MITCH IS EXPENDABLE. Overpaid. Overrated.

 

[ottomaddox]

For those of you that voted yes, aren't you questioning why they haven't fired Keefe yet?

 

[lottster14]

Let's not forget that Dubas has not had to take any accountability, not once. This is a guy who was blasting fans for criticizing Marner on live TV after last years CBJ series.

This guy shouldn't be all comfortable and secure in his GM position at the moment. If he is, he knows the Leafs are coddling wonder boy with kid gloves.

 

[lottster14]

For those of you that voted yes, aren't you questioning why they haven't fired Keefe yet?

I can tell you one reason is because it'd make them look bad, especially after Babcock was painted as a villain and enemy when he got canned. Honestly though, Keefe is passable. He's good enough, not great IMO

 

[ottomaddox]

I can tell you one reason is because it'd make them look bad, especially after Babcock was painted as a villain and enemy when he got canned. Honestly though, Keefe is passable. He's good enough, not great IMO

I don't think TOR will ever win with "passable"/"not great". They have all the freaking money to get any coach. Inexperienced President and GM should elect an experienced coach if they know what's good for them. Which leads us back to the biggest question: do they know what good for them?

 

[justashadowof]

It would be a real crying shame if the Leafs had a fugly lineup like the Isles. I bet they don't have the quality of regular season memories we get with our team. Remember that time Matthews scored a goal with a mad snipe? How can going deep into the playoffs compete with that? When I think back about my favourite Leafs' memories it's always Rick Vaive or Gary Leeman getting his 50th goal or revelling at the wondrous potential of that high flying 1989-90 Leafs' team that scored a ton and turned to garbage next season. Playoff wins like making it to the Conference Finals is way down the list. What do people think this all is? A team sport measured by team success or a vessel on which your favourite players collect their sick stats?

 

[ottomaddox]

It would be a real crying shame if the Leafs had a fugly lineup like the Isles. I bet they don't have the quality of regular season memories we get with our team. Remember that time Matthews scored a goal with a mad snipe? How can going deep into the playoffs compete with that? When I think back about my favourite Leafs' memories it's always Rick Vaive or Gary Leeman getting his 50th goal or revelling at the wondrous potential of that high flying 1989-90 Leafs' team that scored a ton and turned to garbage next season. Playoff wins like making it to the Conference Finals is way down the list. What do people think this all is? A team sport measured by team success or a vessel on which your favourite players collect their sick stats?

They went to the semi-finals 4 times with the Gilmour/Sundin teams.

The memories are fading though...

 

[JohnnyBerts]

Dubas didn’t do a poor talent job, he did a poor cap management job that ended up handcuffing him. Went hard too early on Tavares without locking up the kids for 8 years and figuring out what the team needed next to be a real contender.

 

[sparxx87]

Dubas didn’t do a poor talent job, he did a poor cap management job that ended up handcuffing him. Went hard too early on Tavares without locking up the kids for 8 years and figuring out what the team needed next to be a real contender.

Yes he did. Measure their mid level talent and below vs all the other good teams. Kerfoot, Engvall, etc etc are not even a comparison vs Tampa, Boston, Carolina, Florida etc. because all these teams have a collection of several players that make up their secondary core.

Leafs have a revolving door.

 

[ottomaddox]

It's going to take more than moving Marner to improve TOR.

Why get so transfixed on a scapegoat?

If we trade Marner do we really get better?

 

[Sypher04]

I better see Dubas tear into Matthews and Marner (mostly Marner) during his press conference. I wanna hear something along the lines of:

"We thought we built a great team this year, but the star players simply did not execute or bother showing up in the playoffs".

Enough of coddling them, show some accountability. Everyone on the team did their jobs except these two guys. Spezza, Willy, Brodie, Kerfoot and Campbell all played fantastic.

I'd rather they have the tough conversations that need to happen with the stars behind the scenes where they belong instead of blasting them through the media, which I don't think is remotely constructive

 

[justashadowof]

It's going to take more than moving Marner to improve TOR.

Why get so transfixed on a scapegoat?

If we trade Marner do we really get better?

Trading Marner won't make the team better but could offer an opportunity to bring in a higher quality of secondary talent. All things being equal, Tavares would make the most sense to be moved to another team. At this point, Tavares is unmovable for several reasons including not being 100% sure that he's going to be able to return any time soon.

Moving Marner would be pure folly unless something special comes back in the other direction. Marner seems like the sort who's still a relevant NHL talent in his mid-30's because there's a hockey brain and vision playing a huge part in his production. Same with Nylander. Matthews is the best of the expensive 4 but his elite skills seem the most fragile.

 

[ToneDog]

I can tell you one reason is because it'd make them look bad, especially after Babcock was painted as a villain and enemy when he got canned. Honestly though, Keefe is passable. He's good enough, not great IMO

Passable is not acceptable in this market, especially when Gallant is out there and with Boudreau willing to become an assistant. This fan base deserves so much better.

 

[ToneDog]

Trading Marner won't make the team better but could offer an opportunity to bring in a higher quality of secondary talent. All things being equal, Tavares would make the most sense to be moved to another team. At this point, Tavares is unmovable for several reasons including not being 100% sure that he's going to be able to return any time soon.

Moving Marner would be pure folly unless something special comes back in the other direction. Marner seems like the sort who's still a relevant NHL talent in his mid-30's because there's a hockey brain and vision playing a huge part in his production. Same with Nylander. Matthews is the best of the expensive 4 but his elite skills seems the most fragile.

Dubas and Shanny need to determine if Mitch can transform his game to the playoffs. If not, cut bait because regular season success if not enough. Tavares' game does translate to the playoffs.

 

[Riellyfan04]

Who ever votes yes, you are the problem. Pick another team and just go away

 

[justashadowof]

Dubas and Shanny need to determine if Mitch can transform his game to the playoffs. If not, cut bait because regular season success if not enough. Tavares' game does translate to the playoffs.

It's weird 'cos in his first 2 playoffs, Marner was the best of 3 young guys in the playoffs. His second playoffs, the first against Boston, he was a monster performer. He looked like a seasoned veteran of the playoff wars. I'm confident he can do it. It's almost like something has happened since Marner's early days with the Leafs... I can't quite put my 11 fingers on it...

 

[justashadowof]

Who ever votes yes, you are the problem. Pick another team and just go away

That's right. Some randos who clicked yes on a poll are the problem with perennially underperforming team, not the management, not the players.

 

[ToneDog]

It's weird 'cos in his first 2 playoffs, Marner was the best of 3 young guys in the playoffs. His second playoffs, the first against Boston, he was a monster performer. He looked like a seasoned veteran of the playoff wars. I'm confident he can do it. It's almost like something has happened since Marner's early days with the Leafs... I can't quite put my 11 fingers on it...

He was OK vs Washington because he was down in the lineup. Since getting paid and becoming one of the two top dogs his playoffs have been worse. Perhaps the pressure is getting to him or @JT AM da real deal is correct with his analysis of Marner not being strong or fast enough in the playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

That's right. Some randos who clicked yes on a poll are the problem with perennially underperforming team, not the management, not the players.

54 years of futility for some Leaf fans. Shanny finally seemed to have turned it around only to hand the keys to a rookie GM who continues to trip over his shoelaces. Sure let's all go back to the Ballard years and accept mediocrity.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I think Dubas did a good enough job and the players are the ones responsible. Keefe needs to hold guys more accountable as well. Hes too soft on these guys.

Dubas put these players together. Dubas hired Keefe. Buck stops with him (and Shanahan).

 

[egd27]

On one hand, it is really not Dubas fault his top two players just didn't show up in the playoffs.

No but it's his fault his coach couldn't figure out a way to either get them to show up, or modify the line up in order to exploit the fact that Montreal only had one defensively responsible forward line.

Just like last year when he made it even easier for CBJ by completely stacking one line to focus on, moving a relatively weak defensive forward to centre line 2, and bringing in a winger for the final game that hadn't played in a couple of months for line 3.

What a tactician

 

[egd27]

Honestly though, Keefe is passable. He's good enough, not great IMO

I respectfully disagree. He is not good enough at all.

It's weird 'cos in his first 2 playoffs, Marner was the best of 3 young guys in the playoffs. His second playoffs, the first against Boston

You mean when his entire role wasn't to try and figure out how to get the puck to an already covered Matthews? Yes he played much better when everyone in the arena didn't know what he had to do.

BTW....you forgot 2019 when he and JT essentially shut down the Bergeron line as being a good playoff performance.

 

[sparxx87]

He was OK vs Washington because he was down in the lineup. Since getting paid and becoming one of the two top dogs his playoffs have been worse. Perhaps the pressure is getting to him or @JT AM da real deal is correct with his analysis of Marner not being strong or fast enough in the playoffs.

Different game when you’re on a deep team facing 2nd and 3rd lines/pairs with Bozak and JVR.

Playoffs are all about matchups. Marner won’t see as many favourable ones now, especially with Keefe coaching.

Maybe Babcock was onto something letting Matthews/Nylander go against the top dogs?