Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[Herby]

When did NJ play Jack Hughes out of college, was that last year? When did Seattle play Berniers out of college, before or after they won a playoff series?

How about Montreal, assuming you are thinking who, Suzuki and Kotkenami? 2 years before they made the finals, and with AHL time for Kotkenami....

Facts matter......Jack Hughes, 3 years before winning a playoff series...but.....

You want facts, ok here we go...

Cale Makar jumped from college straight onto an NHL playoff roster with 0 AHL games. His first game as a pro was literally a playoff game.

Cole Caufield jumped from college onto an NHL playoff roster ( a team that made the Stanley Cup Final) after playing 4 AHL games

Luke Hughes jumped straight from college onto an NHL playoff roster with 0 AHL games

Wyatt Johnston made Dallas as a 19 year old with 0 AHL games, a Dallas team that went to the conference finals.

Matty Beniers joined Seattle for a cup of coffee (9 games) at the end of the year following his sophomore year at UM, his first full season in the NHL his team made the playoffs, beat the defending champs in the 1st round and went to Game 7 in the 2nd round.

Matt Boldy joined the Wild's AHL affiliate for 10 games following his college season, played 14 games to begin the next season and then became a key contributor on a playoff team.

Matthew Knies jumped from college straight onto an NHL playoff roster with 0 AHL games. His 4th career game was a playoff game

Brock Faber jumped from college straight onto an NHL playoff roster with 0 AHL games. His 3rd career game was a playoff game.

Quinn Hughes joined Vancouver for a cup of coffee (5 games) at the end his college season at UM, his first full season his team made the playoffs, finished 7th in the conference, won a qualifying round, beat the defending champs in the 1st round, and lost in the conference semi-finals in 7 games.

Trying to tell us that these players were playing for bottom feeder teams with "Nothing to f***** play for" is so patently absurd, I can't believe you even typed it, even funnier that you ask to "keep it factual". The amount of made up stuff that you type to defend Rob Blake's unprecedented and horrible development strategies is truly amazing.
--------------------------------

But you know what team did have "Nothing to f**** play for" ? The 2020-2021 Los Angeles Kings, who finished with the 7th worst record in the NHL, 15 points out of a playoff spot and had multiple glaring holes at C. And how many games did the Kings #2 overall pick C play that year for a team with "Nothing to f***** play for", surely it was a full season, right?

 

[funky]

Kings aren’t winning with the vets or the kids. It’s an existential crisis. This mashed potato sandwich resembles a Rothko worthy shit thrown on the wall museum piece in the making.

But we have to start turning this around somewhere, and we have to stop wasting years, trying to supplement the core and start trying to supplement the future.

Unfortunately, if the veterans don’t like this, maybe they should request a trade.

The one thing I really did like last year was the chemistry developing between Byfield and Kempe. I know I’m crazy, but I put either Dubois or Fiola on that line with either Quinton or Dubois centering and just have a scoring line. Would really like to see Byfield between Fiala and Kempe.

Put Kopitar on the second line with PLD on his wing and possibly one of the kids like Turcot on the other side.

As much as I love Danault he is your prototypical strong third line center and checking center and develop a true checking line that can put up points.

Then build a big nasty fourth line that plays limited minutes and just smashes people and plays PK

I want younger hungry blood on the team

I just can’t wait till BLUC signs, another aging veteran to try and supplement our elder statesman’s twilight of his career and waste of our time

 

[Herby]

But we have to start turning this around somewhere, and we have to stop wasting years, trying to supplement the core and start trying to supplement the future.

Unfortunately, if the veterans don’t like this, maybe they should request a trade.

The one thing I really did like last year was the chemistry developing between Byfield and Kempe. I know I’m crazy, but I put either Dubois or Fiola on that line with either Quinton or Dubois centering and just have a scoring line. Would really like to see Byfield between Fiala and Kempe.

Put Kopitar on the second line with PLD on his wing and possibly one of the kids like Turcot on the other side.

As much as I love Danault he is your prototypical strong third line center and checking center and develop a true checking line that can put up points.

Then build a big nasty fourth line that plays limited minutes and just smashes people and plays PK

I want younger hungry blood on the team

I just can’t wait till BLUC signs, another aging veteran to try and supplement our elder statesman’s twilight of his career and waste of our time

The problem is, it’s been so insanely mismanaged with the trading of all the picks and prospects that a proper rebuild is going to take 4-5 years now (maybe worse with the worst contract in the NHL) at that point the few decent young pieces you did draft and keep will be so much older than the new pieces brought in you have a sizable gap.

You can’t just trade 1st rounders and high end young pieces like this and get these kinds of results. The trades Blake has made were trades that contenders make going for it, and they know the consequences down the road, but you hopefully have some division, conference and maybe a SC banner. But the Kings have three third place finishes, three first round exits and enter this year with the fourth best roster in the Pacific division.

This is one of the worst management performances in the post-lockout cap world NHL. And he’s back for year 8.

 

[MonkeysUncle]

probably trying to find a way to punish him for bonuses

I know, I know , Money and term..

 

[ru4reals]

Are said new jerseys black, silver, white....with a regurgitated logo variation of the past?
Royalty colors of Kings are purple and gold. Pure hues of either color can be altered some.
I love this blue-purple hue. I think the white, 'adidas style' stripes down both sides look good.
I would like to see some elements like that, that no one else is using. The element(s) don't need to be complex...but simple elements can add a lot. (or detract if they're bad or overdone)

I don't like the gimmicky lion with sun glasses, but at least it's not the tired ones used forever.
Nothing wrong with the chevy, the home plate ones....but it's time for something new.
I just love this color and the side stripes are good. The sleeves or shoulders could have an element
as well. The LA homeplate on this os okay. The side stripes could be black, gold or silver.

I just don't want to see another black, white and silver one. But I also don't want to see a gold/purple 'original' one. This color, with an all new logo, with some good elements.

View attachment 882076

Have mercy on us all if that lion is our main logo. Lol. And them Adidas stripes. Just Brutal. I don't mind the colors but please Luc don't f*** this up.

 

[Herby]

You would think that if QB were going to sign a 2 year-$10m type bridge deal that Hoven has said the Kings would like, that it would have happened by now.

It still seems a bit optimistic to me that with what comparable wingers like Boldy and Caufield got at the same age, that he wouldn’t be looking for similar. It’s easy for fans on a messageboard to say “take the bridge deal for the good of the team” or “bet on yourself, and get more in 2 years” in a sport where career ending injuries do happen.

 

[King'sPawn]

You would think that if QB were going to sign a 2 year-$10m type bridge deal that Hoven has said the Kings would like, that it would have happened by now.

I'm not sure how much I agree with Hoven's prediction. But either way, it's a negotiation, and both have to agree.

The absence of a contract says nothing aside from the two sides haven't completely agreed yet.

 

[MonkeysUncle]

I'm not sure how much I agree with Hoven's prediction. But either way, it's a negotiation, and both have to agree.

The absence of a contract says nothing aside from the two sides haven't completely agreed yet.

I wonder if it gets done Draft so Kings know if they have any money to play with July 1st

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You want facts, ok here we go...

Cale Makar jumped from college straight onto an NHL playoff roster with 0 AHL games. His first game as a pro was literally a playoff game.

Cole Caufield jumped from college onto an NHL playoff roster ( a team that made the Stanley Cup Final) after playing 4 AHL games

Luke Hughes jumped straight from college onto an NHL playoff roster with 0 AHL games

Wyatt Johnston made Dallas as a 19 year old with 0 AHL games, a Dallas team that went to the conference finals.

Matty Beniers joined Seattle for a cup of coffee (9 games) at the end of the year following his sophomore year at UM, his first full season in the NHL his team made the playoffs, beat the defending champs in the 1st round and went to Game 7 in the 2nd round.

Matt Boldy joined the Wild's AHL affiliate for 10 games following his college season, played 14 games to begin the next season and then became a key contributor on a playoff team.

Matthew Knies jumped from college straight onto an NHL playoff roster with 0 AHL games. His 4th career game was a playoff game

Brock Faber jumped from college straight onto an NHL playoff roster with 0 AHL games. His 3rd career game was a playoff game.

Quinn Hughes joined Vancouver for a cup of coffee (5 games) at the end his college season at UM, his first full season his team made the playoffs, finished 7th in the conference, won a qualifying round, beat the defending champs in the 1st round, and lost in the conference semi-finals in 7 games.

Trying to tell us that these players were playing for bottom feeder teams with "Nothing to f***** play for" is so patently absurd, I can't believe you even typed it, even funnier that you ask to "keep it factual". The amount of made up stuff that you type to defend Rob Blake's unprecedented and horrible development strategies is truly amazing.
--------------------------------

But you know what team did have "Nothing to f**** play for" ? The 2020-2021 Los Angeles Kings, who finished with the 7th worst record in the NHL, 15 points out of a playoff spot and had multiple glaring holes at C. And how many games did the Kings #2 overall pick C play that year for a team with "Nothing to f***** play for", surely it was a full season, right?

Congrats, you have 9 players out of what, 50? 75? 100?

You also seem to confuse teams who HAPPEN to make the playoffs (Seattle, Montreal, Minnesota,) with teams who are actually going for it (Colorado, Toronto etc)

How convient that you leave out JACK Hughes, who you originally mentioned, you mentioned Caufield, but not Kotkenami, and not Slavosky....wonder why,

But let's see going from Turcotte's draft in 2019,

Jack Hughes, right in to the NHL, nothing to play for immediately
Kakko right in the NHL, great results so far
Dach, right in the NHL great results so far
Byram, right in the NHL, traded
Turcotte, right to the AHL, injured every other week
Seider, 1 year in the AHL, then to the NHL,
Cozens, right to the NHL, nothing to play for immediately
Broberg, 3 seasons in the AHL ( f*** I thought LA was the only one to do this)
Zegras, right to the NHL, nothing to play for, AND he's being shopped.
Podkolzin, 2.5 seasons in the AHL (again, f***, weren't LA the only ones to do this?)

That's just top 10, out of those picks, Byram was the only one who went right in, on a playoff team who had something to play for.

How about 2020 you ask?

Lafenrierre - right to the NHL, not a playoff contender, great results so far
Byfield - 3 seasons split, AHL/NHL with 59 AHL games played, covid year
Stultze - right into the NHL, nothing to play for immediately
Raymond - right into the NHL, nothing to play for immediately
Sanderson - right into the NHL, nothing to play for immediately
Drysdale - right into the NHL nothing to play for immediately AND traded
Holtz - 3 seasons split AHL/NHL....damn another team to do what LA did
Quinn - 2 seasons in the AHL
Rossi - 3 seasons in the AHL (complicated because of heart issue)
Perfetti - 2 seasons in the AHL..

NYR, LA, OTT, Detroit, Anahieim, NJ, BUF, MIN WPG, all non playoff teams except WPG and MIN, and look both players played in the AHL....

Wait, you say, what about 2021?

Powers -straight into the NHL, nothing to play for
Berniers - straight into the NHL, nothing to play for
MacTavish - straight into NHL, nothing to play for
Luke Hughes - straight into the NHL, was actually on a playoff team....LAST year.
Johnson - straight into NHL, nothign to play for
Edvinsson - 2 seasons of AHL
Eklund - 1 season of AHL
Clarke - played round the world, ECHL might have been the only league he didn't play in so far
Guenther - right into the NHL, nothing to play for
Boucher - 1 AHL season....

BUF, SEA, ANA, NJ, CBS, DET, SJ, ARI, OTT, LA - only 2 playoff teams, NJ, LA and NJ did bring him right along....

So Turcotte, Byfield, Clarke were LA's 3 picks in that time frame....Turcotte injured, Byfield project, Clarke, no idea, when he did play in NHL there were clear issues in his game, if he had played for Buffalo, they might have ignored them and had him develop in the NHL, or ANA, OTT, DET, ARI, CBS, etc.

Are there playes like Wyatt Johnson who just come in on a playoff team and take over, absolutely, are they the norm, no, no they aren't,

Wanna look at the bottom 10, you know, where most of the contenders pick? Go take a look for 2019, not one player made the jump onto a contender team, all played in the AHL, that's just bottom 10, you wanna include the other 6 playoff teams? Caufield, he made the jump pretty much, Newhook made the jump, then was traded, Krebs, AHL then was traded in the Eichel deal, Harley, AHL time, Thomson, AHL time, Heinola, AHL time,

How about 2020?

Bottom 16, again, where mostly the playoff teams draft from, barring trades

Guhle - made the jump,
Reichel - AHL time
Mercer - made the jump
Schneider - AHL time
Mukahmadulin - AHL time
Chinakov - AHL time (11 games) but nothing to play for with CBS
Lapierre - AHL time
Foerster - AHL time
Zary - AHL time
Barron - AHL time
Neighbors - made the jump, STL, not sure if anyone as an idea of what they are doing
Perrault - AHL time
Greig - AHL time
Brisson - AHL time
Bourque - AHL time
Wiesblatt - AHL time


So yes, you will have players like Caufield, and Luke Hughes and Quinn Hughes jump into the NHL right away, 90% of the time, it's for the OTT, SJ, ANA, BUF, DET,

I wonder if it gets done Draft so Kings know if they have any money to play with July 1st

If they are smart.....IF.....they are smart, they will determine they have ZERO money to play with.....and bring the kids up to fill the spots.....and then see how training camps shake loose around the league and go from there, there's not a UFA goaltender out there that would move the needle

 

[BaileyFan]

You would think that if QB were going to sign a 2 year-$10m type bridge deal that Hoven has said the Kings would like, that it would have happened by now.

It still seems a bit optimistic to me that with what comparable wingers like Boldy and Caufield got at the same age, that he wouldn’t be looking for similar. It’s easy for fans on a messageboard to say “take the bridge deal for the good of the team” or “bet on yourself, and get more in 2 years” in a sport where career ending injuries do happen.

Obviously this indicates that Byfield NEVER was going to sign an extension in Los Angeles and has his heart set on only playing for his hometown Leafs. Better trade him and a 1st for Marner so we can get something for nothing once again.

 

[Surf Nutz]

What NHL win streak record is this?

Season opening , on the road.

 

[Herby]

Obviously this indicates that Byfield NEVER was going to sign an extension in Los Angeles and has his heart set on only playing for his hometown Leafs. Better trade him and a 1st for Marner so we can get something for nothing once again.

If this drags on it probably means that the Kings don't want to do a long-term deal for $8m+ right now, because Blake has completely butchered the Kings cap situation, but Byfield might want to be paid similarly to comparable players.

If an employee for a competitor just as important as you got F-You generational wealth (say what Caufield got) it's only natural that you would expect a similar deal. I posted his agents history with similar players in the QB thread and there have been three 8 year deals, the one that gives fans hope is the DeBrincat one, but it was heavily rumored at the time that DeBrincat was dead-set on returning home to play for the Wings and didn't want to commit anywhere that wasn't Detroit long-term , and ultimately that rumor ended up being true as he ended up where he always wanted to be.

 

[CarlSneep]

Season opening , on the road.

Didn’t remember this at all, thanks!

 

[Surf Nutz]

Didn’t remember this at all, thanks!

No worries Carl , the trauma that came later made it hard to remember

 

[Statto]

That is correct. I am just wondering what’s holding up th Byfield signing

If his agent is any good he will be playing hardball. Blake needs to know what he can spend on Spence and then free agency. So that’s the first deadline and a good agent will work it as far as he can take it. The offer sheet risk is also good leverage. Byfield currently holds the cards and I’d guess the biggest talking point currently is term.

 

[Statto]

If this drags on it probably means that the Kings don't want to do a long-term deal for $8m+ right now, because Blake has completely butchered the Kings cap situation, but Byfield might want to be paid similarly to comparable players.

If an employee for a competitor just as important as you got F-You generational wealth (say what Caufield got) it's only natural that you would expect a similar deal. I posted his agents history with similar players in the QB thread and there have been three 8 year deals, the one that gives fans hope is the DeBrincat one, but it was heavily rumored at the time that DeBrincat was dead-set on returning home to play for the Wings and didn't want to commit anywhere that wasn't Detroit long-term , and ultimately that rumor ended up being true as he ended up where he always wanted to be.

I think it depends on how Byfield sees his growth potential if he’s on, for example, a 2 year Bridge it might mean the right time to cash in is on his third contract. If he thinks he can become a ppg player and go back to C he might prefer the bridge with a view to signing 8 years @ 8 figures. If I’m his agent I’m not considering 8 x 8 if they want term now, I’d be asking for 8 x 9.5 (The PLD contract is a great stick to beat Blake with). I’m wondering if this is why the PLD buyout rumours have started again, although clickbait is more likely. I’m expecting a bridge deal personally as I think it’ll suit both sides - Blake because of the cap and QB if he backs himself to get a monster 3rd contract.

 

[BaileyFan]

If this drags on it probably means that the Kings don't want to do a long-term deal for $8m+ right now, because Blake has completely butchered the Kings cap situation, but Byfield might want to be paid similarly to comparable players.

If an employee for a competitor just as important as you got F-You generational wealth (say what Caufield got) it's only natural that you would expect a similar deal. I posted his agents history with similar players in the QB thread and there have been three 8 year deals, the one that gives fans hope is the DeBrincat one, but it was heavily rumored at the time that DeBrincat was dead-set on returning home to play for the Wings and didn't want to commit anywhere that wasn't Detroit long-term , and ultimately that rumor ended up being true as he ended up where he always wanted to be.

I think QB winds up being our version of DeBrincat: a great young player who you’d want to build around but because his team hit the pipe one too many times and thought they could win one more for old team legends, winds up in an awkward age range at the start of a rebuild and is traded. Any bridge deal takes him to the point where the Kings will be declining hard post-Kopitar and he’ll be staring down the prospect of being on a tanking squad until his late 20’s.

 

[Herby]

I think it depends on how Byfield sees his growth potential if he’s on, for example, a 2 year Bridge it might mean the right time to cash in is on his third contract. If he thinks he can become a ppg player and go back to C he might prefer the bridge with a view to signing 8 years @ 8 figures. If I’m his agent I’m not considering 8 x 8 if they want term now, I’d be asking for 8 x 9.5 (The PLD contract is a great stick to beat Blake with). I’m wondering if this is why the PLD buyout rumours have started again, although clickbait is more likely. I’m expecting a bridge deal personally as I think it’ll suit both sides - Blake because of the cap and QB if he backs himself to get a monster 3rd contract.

The problem with the "bet on himself" thing is, if that does come to fruition, well then you are going to get paid again at the end of the 8 year deal, when you are still 30 years old and still at the tail end of prime. The biggest reason is, it guarantees you generational wealth at 22, even if you end up as an Adam Deadmarsh or Pat Peake while giving the teams a slight cap discount through their primes while overpaying a bit the first two years, it's a total win/win for everyone.

There is a reason the big eight year contract after the ELC is largely the norm around the league for higher end pieces. But I guess that isn't the case for a team that is paying $20m a year to players drafted 19 and 16 years ago, to a team that paid $8.5m to a 40 point center, to a team that is paying players millions to play for the Columbus Blue Jackets and Lehigh Valley Phantoms, paying a player millions as he fishes for northerns on Lake of the Woods and for a team that due to it's total refusal to develop players at a normal pace has no key players on ELC's. Blake being unable cap wise to give his best young player an 8 year deal that everyone else in the league would give is just further proof of what a complete clown show this team is under his management.

 

[chris kontos]

byfield for mitch marner is the most blake/kings timeline.
or maybe tavares

 

[Statto]

The problem with the "bet on himself" thing is, if that does come to fruition, well then you are going to get paid again at the end of the 8 year deal, when you are still 30 years old and still at the tail end of prime. The biggest reason is, it guarantees you generational wealth at 22, even if you end up as an Adam Deadmarsh or Pat Peake while giving the teams a slight cap discount through their primes while overpaying a bit the first two years, it's a total win/win for everyone.

There is a reason the big eight year contract after the ELC is largely the norm around the league for higher end pieces. But I guess that isn't the case for a team that is paying $20m a year to players drafted 19 and 16 years ago, to a team that paid $8.5m to a 40 point center, to a team that is paying players millions to play for the Columbus Blue Jackets and Lehigh Valley Phantoms, paying a player millions as he fishes for northerns on Lake of the Woods and for a team that due to it's total refusal to develop players at a normal pace has no key players on ELC's. Blake being unable cap wise to give his best young player an 8 year deal that everyone else in the league would give is just further proof of what a complete clown show this team is under his management.

I get that and don’t disagree with the main points you lay out. As you say the development path for QB regardless of how they got there means there is a choice to be made, as he’s behind the curve as to where he should/could be. Hopefully it’s an eight year deal but I’m not convinced.

 

[King'sPawn]

I wonder if it gets done Draft so Kings know if they have any money to play with July 1st

I'm confident a deal will get done by then for just that reason.

- Kings need to know what they can afford
- The longer Byfield waits after that, the less money that will be available for him.

 

[chris kontos]

Stand by for the most cynical humor featuring how to do absolutely everything wrong in player negotiations brought to you by the three stooges+1

 

[Johnny Utah]

Regarding goaltending I have a feeling Samsonov, Stolarz and Gustavsson(trade) will be the goalies the Kings target.

 

[King'sPawn]

The 7 Goaltenders for LA Kings to Target This Summer

mayorsmanor.com

Hoven's predictions on goalies they'll target.

TL;DR version (no specific order):
Ullmark
Gustavsson
Gibson
Kuemper
Lindgren
Korpisalo
Nedeljkovic
Stolarz

He lumped Kuemper and Lindgren as one option, so technically there are 8 listed, but as they are on the same team, it's 7 different options.

 

[MonkeysUncle]

The 7 Goaltenders for LA Kings to Target This Summer

mayorsmanor.com

Hoven's predictions on goalies they'll target.

TL;DR version (no specific order):
Ullmark
Gustavsson
Gibson
Kuemper
Lindgren
Korpisalo
Nedeljkovic
Stolarz

He lumped Kuemper and Lindgren as one option, so technically there are 8 listed, but as they are on the same team, it's 7 different options.

I am interested in 2 of those Gustavsson at right price. They need to shed salary. Maybe package with Middleton for Kaliyev and mid level prospect, Absolutely no 1st. My choice would be Stolarz . A Big ticket goalie will not put kings over hump and will not push needle for cost/ price. Korpisalo is not even worth a thought