Speculation: Benning 2.0? Not! Well a Little Maybe?

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

 

[VanJack]

It's one thing to add a guy like Lindholm at the TDL, when your team has a legitimate shot at a long playoff run.

It's quite another thing to trade a top-10 first rounder and a second rounder for a guy like OEL, when your team is mired in lottery land.

Sure Lindholm cost a boatload of assets. But when you're talking about 'bad deals' nothing matches that OEL deal with Arizona. Benning was gone three months after making that deal; and OEL was bought out after two mediocre seasons. And the Canucks will carrying that contract like an anvil for years.

 

[RobertKron]

It's one thing to add a guy like Lindholm at the TDL, when your team has a legitimate shot at a long playoff run.

It's quite another thing to trade a top-10 first rounder and a second rounder for a guy like OEL, when your team is mired in lottery land.

Sure Lindholm cost a boatload of assets. But when you're talking about 'bad deals' nothing matches that OEL deal with Arizona. Benning was gone three months after making that deal; and OEL was bought out after two mediocre seasons. And the Canucks will carrying that contract like an anvil for years.

So far this season, you'd have to say that OEL and Garland have been two of the Canucks' best players. Although it might look different down the road, you'd have to say that this trade is coming up aces for the Canucks.

 

[jd22]

'Oh no, they traded away someone who could score goals with Pete' for cap space and a run with Lindholm?

Much like the 9OA pick that was traded for 8 years of dead cap? Remember that one? Who more than likely would be roaming the top 6 with Vancouver right now on an ELC?

Get f***ed.

 

[F A N]

I think Hughes' emergence as a Norris contender and a competent coach has been the biggest difference. It's not that Hughes needed to be sheltered in the past but he kind of was. Under Green, Hughes was mostly kept away from the tough defensive minutes. That meant those tough minutes went to Myers' pairing a lot. The fact that we had the Boudreau bump gave a glimpse of what the team was capable of with just a decent NHL head coach. Throw in Hronek and other defensive additions (including defensive additions up front) + Tocchet and his coaching staff and that led to more sustainable winning. Of course, Miller having his best season ever at C also helps immensely.

Players need time to mature but I think having a winning environment matters. Take Reinhart's last year as a Sabre. That team had Reinhart, Eichel, Cozens, Dahlin, Ullmark, Mittlestadt, Montour, Thompson, Samuelsson, McCabe (at different stages of development and costs) with a 1st overall pick in the summer.

We've had the building blocks, it's too bad it took so long to have a good supporting cast (although we have a ton of UFAs).

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Yea sure

No lol

 

[Wry n Ginger]

I get that it's the off-season and maybe that "people are bored" and just wanna talk "hockey" in whatever that form entails...but for the love of "diety of your choice"...please just delete these types of of moronic troll posts!!

 

[LandfiII]

yikes. This reads like something from Craigslist Rants/Raves circa 2007

Craigslist was a one night hookups site. Wtf you talking about "rants/raves" gtfo lolll

 

[northwestrcomfort]

I don’t believe JR/PA but they’ve won cups, so they can’t be as bad as Benning

 

[LandfiII]

I don’t believe JR/PA but they’ve won cups, so they can’t be as bad as Benning

PA has in title at least only equal Cup cred as Benning. Unless you mean two Cups as AGM vs one as AGM then yeah sure but..

Look at me, defending Benning.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

There is some truth to this... While current brass has shown a much higher level of professionalism, the team results have absolutely caused many to turn a blind eye to some obvious mistakes or near mistakes. Benning could have been forgiven for everything up until the post bubble run offseason. I suppose it's entirely possible for history to repeat, there is going to be some significant turnover, at sensitive positions.

Alvin/JR have been decisive, but also impulsive. By all accounts they nearly traded Miller less than a year after his signing... a disaster avoided by other teams lackluster offers. Just imagine the shitstorm that would have been watching JT put up a career high this season for another team..

Trading Kuzmenko was a huge blunder. Largely on Tocchet, but Alvin holds the cards at the end of the day. Just completely ignored the teams most glaring needs, and ultimately led to their downfall. Hell they were very lucky not to have lost to Nashville.

Pivoted on Lindholm about a week after acquiring him, weren't there also reports of moving Zadorov as well?

Mikheyev... well yea.. A much better player than he showed this year, but the position they are in now, was pretty damn predictable.

I think this season will prove to have been the teams best shot at the finals, but that doesn't mean they can't win it all via a harder road in upcoming seasons.

The biggest thing they did was have the team ready to go this season, but also after the complete opposite last year.. That roster had no business missing the playoffs.

More so Gillis 2.0 so far.

Trading Kuzmenko was not a blunder. His 5 million off the cap alone made that trade easier to digest since we are likely losing Lindholm. He's the kind of player that looks good on shit teams but gets exposed when forced to play actual competitive hockey.

The Zadorov rumours were false and since they are trying hard to keep him lends to that.

If the rumour about Lindholm being traded in order to get Jake are true I'm ok with that since Boston clearly is willing to overpay him and Jake seems a top priority now.

 

[F A N]

I don’t believe JR/PA but they’ve won cups, so they can’t be as bad as Benning

PA has in title at least only equal Cup cred as Benning. Unless you mean two Cups as AGM vs one as AGM then yeah sure but..

Look at me, defending Benning.

Allvin has won Cups as Director of European Scouting only.

Rutherford has won at least a Cup in each of his last two stops. Here’s hoping that the trend continues.

 

[LandfiII]

Allvin has won Cups as Director of European Scouting only.

Rutherford has won at least a Cup in each of his last two stops. Here’s hoping that the trend continues.

Rutherford has done it all.

 

[theguardianII]

This post is FAR from defending the record breaking worst GM in NHL history.
His firing is still my Greatest Moments In Time for the Canucks.

Part of what is/was intended was perception. Losing these look almost as bad, almost but winning and they are defended.

Take away the playoff run the failure to win the cup, this group did have the best chance in 15 years, some of the outcomes are pretty damn similar, not as bad but SOME are similar if looking at costs and returns. Of course the big return is the playoff run and that has value but the cost in view of the future.

Just the idea that the team is locked into finding a replacement for one player at the possible expense of two or three key players in that run is not a good thing IMO.
That adds to the Lindholm deal.

Now all those already traded assets PLUS two or three roster players AND the need to find a possible replacement.

Cap space is golden, the Canucks have quite a bit, enough to re-sign all the key players IF not over spending on a POSSIBLE player the MIGHT mesh with Pettersson.

It made the entire of season about Pettersson and not necessarily the team.

Like I posted it is about perception too.

 

[RobertKron]

Craigslist was a one night hookups site. Wtf you talking about "rants/raves" gtfo lolll

Rants/raves was f***ing incredible. Just people going back and forth anonymously simultaneously about HAARP and also about how Ashley from Ladner is a cow and Gary down the hall stole my prized cantaloupe.

I just looked yesterday, and it's still there but the Vancouver one is absolutely dead. The Bellingham one appears to still deliver, though, and is just unhinged political ranting.


Unrelated comment that is mushed in by the forum software: the takeaway from this past season being "the failure to win the cup" is a wild worldview.

 

[hookshott]

I don’t believe JR/PA but they’ve won cups, so they can’t be as bad as Benning

Very low bar!!

 

[rypper]

Very low bar!!

Is it?

 

[F A N]

Is it?

I don’t think it is but Jay Feaster won a Cup as GM and Weisbrod won a Cup as Director of Collegiate Scouting. The two also hired a coach who won a Cup as a HC. Not quite the dream team over there in Calgary though…

 

[Hammer79]

I actually appreciate that this management group recognized that this Canucks squad had a shot at going deep. They added, instead of asset hording. Then they fell short at the deadline at acquiring Guentzel and moving out money to do it. This team was 2 top 6 forwards short, and it showed, not just against the Oilers, but Nashville.

We still have Lindholm's negotiating rights until a week from Monday, but that was a gamble at getting a right-handed face-off taker. His demands make him not a fit for our middle 6, but we gave up pick #28, those are usually 'projects that need work in certain areas' by that point.

 

[ziploc]

The OEL trade was generationally bad. Like, in the discussion for one of the worst trades of all time kind of bad. And that is only one of the horribad moves that Benning made. It boggles the mind.

The Lindholm trade isn't in the same hemisphere. He did what he was brought here to do in the playoffs. He certainly wasn't to blame for them losing to the Oilers. That was the appropriate kind of gamble to make at that time and, unlike all of Benning's miscues, the trade has actually led to more cap flexibility this offseason.

 

[Hit the post]

Canucks collegiate scouting has generally been decent in comparison to the Western Canadian (if not the whole of Canada) amateur scouting. Not sure how much better John "I'm buddies with Jimbo" Weisbrod was. He did make lifelong friends in Orlando as a result of his work as a NBA GM there

 

[wonton15]

This management group is closer to Gillis than Benning

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

To slightly change a Moneyball Quote:

There are good GMs

Then there are are bad GMs

Then there is 50 feet of crap

Then there is Jim Benning

 

[theguardianII]

I actually appreciate that this management group recognized that this Canucks squad had a shot at going deep. They added, instead of asset hording. Then they fell short at the deadline at acquiring Guentzel and moving out money to do it. This team was 2 top 6 forwards short, and it showed, not just against the Oilers, but Nashville.

Guentzel at the TDL, ya, go for it but not for 7 years. As a rental it could have been taking a small chance but for 7 years? 7 years is almost a guarantee for big problems on the horizon.

I wonder if a trade by the Canucks, if a fan favourite, is announced just before the Stanley cup game. So it is kind of smothered by the cup game attention.

Certainly IF there is another buyout it has to come within 48 hours of the game ending.

I think most of the FA's will be signed right after the cup final and before the draft. They will have the general idea of FA's available from other team's buyouts and not signing FA's early.

Just how much does the team need to change? If not for the collapse of Pettersson and Boeser's scoring how bad were they? Boeser picked it up in the playoffs playing probably the best games of his career but that last half of the season, not so great. In truth IMO losing Garland would be as bad due to the "CHEMISTRY" that line developed.

Name all the possible saviors at any cost but is it that necessary to max out the cap 2 months before the puck drops again?

Trades happen and Rutherford/Allvin with Tocchet will have an eye out already for cost effective players that fit Tocchet's system.

What does Tocchet want? Well he hasn't tried to hide his types or even those he named. He wants BIG defencemen, he really liked Myers and Zadorov, he liked Joshua.

Do fans think Tocchet's "wants" will be ignored? Myers and Zadorov have already been reported willing to take less than market value to stay so that might mean longer terms. Joshua might be different because it will be his BIG payday of his career.

The fan favourite Rutherford hinted that might be traded has to be a signed core player. Boeser whose contract will be quite big next year if here, they would get the most out of him with one more year on the books. Pettersson? He is locked up for 8 years something that increased his value considerably. Trading a RFA doesn't get as much as a contracted player. Maybe that Necas deal is still out there. Rumors at that time of year are not for short term improvement, that rumour was a "hockey" trade rumour. Any deals now are "hockey" trades. Personally I think there is a very good chance his name comes up in talks.

There are some short term signings with some teams that could be trade partners, Chinakhov at 2.2 mil would fit on any team but the Canucks might have an asset or two they might need.

 

[VanJack]

If Bo Horvat can be traded....anybody on the Canucks can be traded. If Rutherford and Allvin have proven one thing, it's that if there's a 'hockey trade' to be made out there that will actually improve the roster--they'd have no hesitation pulling the trigger.

Let's face it, this just never happened with Benning. He became fixated with guys and consistently overrated them, which probably stopped a lot of potential trades in their tracks.

And it was the same with some of the disastrous UFA signings. Would Louie Eriksson have survived six seasons under the current regime? Not likely. They pulled the pin on OEL after only two seasons; and look set to do the same with Mikheyev. They don't let bad decisions linger.

So that's why the Canucks are a fascinating team to watch as we close in on July 1st. It's entirely possible that one of their core pieces is dealt for somebody they really think can improve the lineup. And that's the way it has to be.