Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[Hockeyville USA]

Alex Laferriere is going to have a breakout year. I can clearly see it right now.

 

[Surf Nutz]

If the team struggles to score goals, then he has more value as a hold out than under contract. So his leverage has a better chance of increasing by not accepting his QO.

The team was 17th in the league at goals for, with 254. Next season, Kaliyev is a more proven goal scorer than Laferriere, Thomas, Turcotte, and Fagemo.

If he has no trade value, is he better off waiting to take a spot from that group, or surrender his restricted free agency to compete for a spot in camp?

Given the new coach and the goals that departed the roster in the offseason, I don’t see camp as an opportunity for a player in Kaliyev’s position.

If Kaliyev believes in himself more than management does, why sell yourself short? If he was a JAD type player, I’d agree with you. But his pedigree and track record suggests there is more there than he’s been allowed to show.

You made the case as to why he should be given a chance in camp and he should sign and go for it.

Whatever happens last season wasn't the biggest case of the decade.

He needs to be given a shot.

He would be my first option with QB and Fiala to start pre season, then with Kopi and Kempe, then Moore and Danault and lastly on the fourth line.

If he doesn't stick anywhere I try the same with the other longshots first: Lee, Fagemo, Thomas , Turcotte and then the more likely guys like Foegle, Jeannot

and Laferierre.

 

[Statto]

Alex Laferriere is going to have a breakout year. I can clearly see it right now.

I certainly think he might take a step, I was always high on him.

The other thing is that if you look at the likely line pairings the third guy is a north-south guy - Laf, Jeannot, Foegle. That leads to a more aggressive forecheck and go to the net approach which Thomas and Tucotte can also play. I definitely think there is a system change in the offering. I hope anyway.

 

[tigermask48]

I heard that Kayilev basically keeps to himself - maybe this is why TM scratched him and called him out.

How very "old boys club" of them and indicative of the organization's issue if true. And how very hilarious to spin this like it's some issue when it's coming from the person who thinks fighting and being tough is 90% of being good at hockey.

 

[bland]

How very "old boys club" of them and indicative of the organization's issue if true. And how very hilarious to spin this like it's some issue when it's coming from the person who thinks fighting and being tough is 90% of being good at hockey.

This has been an issue with Kaliyev since juniors though. He reportedly didn't interview well, and is supposedly introverted in an alpha male business. He dropped for a reason, and there was an abnormal amount of speculation about him in particular.

Honestly, the team evaluates skill sets just fine. But with the off-ice issues of Kovalchuk, Peterson, Dubois and Kaliyev, maybe it's time that they change how they view character. No, doesn't mean that anyone is a "bad guy", but rather a poor fit.

 

[All The Kings Men]

This has been an issue with Kaliyev since juniors though. He reportedly didn't interview well, and is supposedly introverted in an alpha male business. He dropped for a reason, and there was an abnormal amount of speculation about him in particular.

Honestly, the team evaluates skill sets just fine. But with the off-ice issues of Kovalchuk, Peterson, Dubois and Kaliyev, maybe it's time that they change how they view character. No, doesn't mean that anyone is a "bad guy", but rather a poor fit.

out of curiosity

what perceived "off-ice issues" were there for Petersen and Kovalchuk?

 

[tigermask48]

This has been an issue with Kaliyev since juniors though. He reportedly didn't interview well, and is supposedly introverted in an alpha male business. He dropped for a reason, and there was an abnormal amount of speculation about him in particular.

Honestly, the team evaluates skill sets just fine. But with the off-ice issues of Kovalchuk, Peterson, Dubois and Kaliyev, maybe it's time that they change how they view character. No, doesn't mean that anyone is a "bad guy", but rather a poor fit.

As someone who was an extreme introvert when I was younger, and took many years to come to terms with it, to the point of dealing with extreme depression in my 20s.

Please go on and tell me how people like Kaliev and myself are the problem and the system doesn't need to change.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

This has been an issue with Kaliyev since juniors though. He reportedly didn't interview well, and is supposedly introverted in an alpha male business. He dropped for a reason, and there was an abnormal amount of speculation about him in particular.

Honestly, the team evaluates skill sets just fine. But with the off-ice issues of Kovalchuk, Peterson, Dubois and Kaliyev, maybe it's time that they change how they view character. No, doesn't mean that anyone is a "bad guy", but rather a poor fit.

Wonder if this is because he's really quiet and keeps to himself, if he has some sort of mental condition, if he's always been different culturally coming from an Uzbek immigrant family; maybe they stayed pretty insular, and he didn't assimilate/socialize as well growing up. Could be a multitude or combination of things.

 

[tigermask48]

Wonder if this is because he's really quiet and keeps to himself, if he has some sort of mental condition, if he's always been different culturally coming from an Uzbek immigrant family; maybe they stayed pretty insular, and he didn't assimilate/socialize as well growing up. Could be a multitude or combination of things.

It might just be the way he is, his personality and there isn't any other factor.

For some people (me personally) the idea of being on the ice playing hockey is enough social interaction.
I didn't need or want to go out with the boys after games, and the thought terrified me.
I enjoyed being in the moment of the game and loved being a part of the team on the ice, but that was where it ended. There was few things better than winning a game, leaving everything on the ice, and then curling up in bed with a good book.

Hockey was a way to fit in, without fitting in. I could be part of the collective of the team on the ice and yet hide in plain sight because it wasn't a sport where all eyes are focused directly on you as an individual.

 

[bland]

As someone who was an extreme introvert when I was younger, and took many years to come to terms with it, to the point of dealing with extreme depression in my 20s.

Please go on and tell me how people like Kaliev and myself are the problem and the system doesn't need to change.

You are taking 2 and 2 and getting 4000 here. Ain't NOBODY more introverted than me and I know and accept what I can and cannot do.

I can't believe this even needs to be explained. If you are on a team, and your manager tells you that you need to be able to achieve certain tasks in order to be a member of that team but your personality makes it difficult to accomplish those tasks, it is not reasonable to expect your manager to make changes to accommodate your personality when it is in conflict with the team goals.

Introverts will have a very difficult time succeeding in positions that require and reward extroverted approaches. The lifespan of a hockey career is limited, and there is always somebody else waiting for your spot. If you can't meet them at least 3/4s of the way, you need to look for a different opportunity in life.

Management made this quite clear last year by saying that Kaliyev needed to be a better teammate. What exactly that means is none of our business, but it is pretty damn clear that they have given him the outline and opportunity to meet their needs and he struggled to fulfill them.

Wonder if this is because he's really quiet and keeps to himself, if he has some sort of mental condition, if he's always been different culturally coming from an Uzbek immigrant family; maybe they stayed pretty insular, and he didn't assimilate/socialize as well growing up. Could be a multitude or combination of things.

Yup, and none of them are our business.

 

[BigKing]

Been banging the "Kaliyev is a dork" theory for a long time now. That's not me saying that he is, but he doesn't seem like the guy that is going to the Taylor Swift concert with the other guys and posing for Instagram photos or whatever the rest of the team is doing, which, for the record, would actually earn dork status from me.

He's American but seemingly on the other end of the Joe Six Pack spectrum. The fact that I used the word "spectrum" in this comment is not by accident either.

I love the kid. I've always wondered if he doesn't have a strong friend group within the team which makes it more difficult to succeed, for starters, and then more difficult to pull yourself out of a slump. Once the slump hits and you start getting scratched for other guys--guys you think you are better than and are getting more rope--then you can become angry and feel persecuted. This, of course, doesn't help bust the slump. You start thinking everyone is against you etc.

 

[bland]

out of curiosity

what perceived "off-ice issues" were there for Petersen and Kovalchuk?

You need to ask for Kovalchuk? He had no interest in playing Kings hockey in the late 2000s much less than as a guy coming off a retirement. His goals CLEARLY didn't match the teams yet the desperation overrode what should have been a ridiculously obvious decision to pass. How many other players are segregated from practice from their teammates or left home on road trips especially so quickly into a comeback?

Petersen couldn't make the transition from up and comer signed to a big deal to be a starter to battling and losing out to a highly competitive incumbent. It destroyed his confidence to the point where he is now in danger of being out of the league after a 2nd organization couldn't revive him.

Now, pure speculation on my part, but since that confidence crashed during the time frame in which the roster abruptly stopped the rebuild/retool and doubled-down on veterans to give Kopitar and Doughty their way, I can't help but wonder if there was some conflict there between the established old guard wanting to stick with their fading guy and the new players who have not been able to find a comfort zone to thrive in.

If a player can go from so much promise to a complete shell in a two year span, I would suggest that it wasn't likely to happen out of nowhere and that those mental strength issues SHOULD have been at least somewhat identifiable by lifers in the game who have been around PLENTY of guys with NHL talent who they have seen fall off the path for one reason or another along the way.

 

[MonkeysUncle]

You need to ask for Kovalchuk? He had no interest in playing Kings hockey in the late 2000s much less than as a guy coming off a retirement. His goals CLEARLY didn't match the teams yet the desperation overrode what should have been a ridiculously obvious decision to pass. How many other players are segregated from practice from their teammates or left home on road trips especially so quickly into a comeback?

Petersen couldn't make the transition from up and comer signed to a big deal to be a starter to battling and losing out to a highly competitive incumbent. It destroyed his confidence to the point where he is now in danger of being out of the league after a 2nd organization couldn't revive him.

Now, pure speculation on my part, but since that confidence crashed during the time frame in which the roster abruptly stopped the rebuild/retool and doubled-down on veterans to give Kopitar and Doughty their way, I can't help but wonder if there was some conflict there between the established old guard wanting to stick with their fading guy and the new players who have not been able to find a comfort zone to thrive in.

If a player can go from so much promise to a complete shell in a two year span, I would suggest that it wasn't likely to happen out of nowhere and that those mental strength issues SHOULD have been at least somewhat identifiable by lifers in the game who have been around PLENTY of guys with NHL talent who they have seen fall off the path for one reason or another along the way.

Just curious, who's fault is it, Kings management for signing a player who pretty much most people knew ii wasn't a fit or Kovy being exactly who he was.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You are taking 2 and 2 and getting 4000 here. Ain't NOBODY more introverted than me and I know and accept what I can and cannot do.

I can't believe this even needs to be explained. If you are on a team, and your manager tells you that you need to be able to achieve certain tasks in order to be a member of that team but your personality makes it difficult to accomplish those tasks, it is not reasonable to expect your manager to make changes to accommodate your personality when it is in conflict with the team goals.

Introverts will have a very difficult time succeeding in positions that require and reward extroverted approaches. The lifespan of a hockey career is limited, and there is always somebody else waiting for your spot. If you can't meet them at least 3/4s of the way, you need to look for a different opportunity in life.

Management made this quite clear last year by saying that Kaliyev needed to be a better teammate. What exactly that means is none of our business, but it is pretty damn clear that they have given him the outline and opportunity to meet their needs and he struggled to fulfill them.

Yup, and none of them are our business.

yet Vilardi gets shipped out because of the chip on his shoulder and mild-ass PLD gets brought in on a 8x8 and every chance in the world to sort it out

Maybe we should be less angry at Kaliyev and more focused on the management team that doesn't seem to know/evaluate personalities and how they'll fit and/or what to do with them on any level.

You don't interview the guy, still draft him, then go surprised pikachu and use him like shit. It's basically what they did with Kovalchuk, except with more opportunity to get ahead of it. The way people are coming at Kaliyev for not 'following the outline' is bat shit insane.

 

[bland]

Just curious, who's fault is it, Kings management for signing a player who pretty much most people knew ii wasn't a fit or Kovy being exactly who he was.

100% Kings management.

 

[YP44]

Crosby, Ovechkin, Toews.....Sedins,

Shit that's just 10 seconds off the top of my head......

You are bitching about outliers

Orr should not be included on his list either as that more injury related.

 

[bland]

yet Vilardi gets shipped out because of the chip on his shoulder and mild-ass PLD gets brought in on a 8x8 and every chance in the world to sort it out

Maybe we should be less angry at Kaliyev and more focused on the management team that doesn't seem to know/evaluate personalities and how they'll fit and/or what to do with them on any level.

You don't interview the guy, still draft him, then go surprised pikachu and use him like shit. It's basically what they did with Kovalchuk, except with more opportunity to get ahead of it. The way people are coming at Kaliyev for not 'following the outline' is bat shit insane.

That is EXACTLY my point.

I am incredibly curious to learn the behind the scenes stuff here, as it seems that if nobody is willing to take a cheap chance on Kaliyev that his issues/whatever anybody wants to call them are overriding a low cost risk, there has to be more "there" there in a sport that gives lots of people lots of chances.

It's an old boys network sport, and until I learn otherwise, it appears that there are some terrible things that are accepted and forgiven while other innocuous things are strictly verboten.

100% Kings management.

And I should add that I would LOVE to know what happened so quickly that a team that rebounded so well under Stevens would dump him so quickly just months after the Kovalchuk disaster.

 

[King'sPawn]

And I should add that I would LOVE to know what happened so quickly that a team that rebounded so well under Stevens would dump him so quickly just months after the Kovalchuk disaster.

I honestly just assumed it was somewhat related to McLellan in Edmonton, as Stevens was fired Nov 8 and McLellan was fired Nov 20.

 

[All The Kings Men]

You need to ask for Kovalchuk? He had no interest in playing Kings hockey in the late 2000s much less than as a guy coming off a retirement. His goals CLEARLY didn't match the teams yet the desperation overrode what should have been a ridiculously obvious decision to pass. How many other players are segregated from practice from their teammates or left home on road trips especially so quickly into a comeback?

I never thought the signing was a good idea in the first place but to the best of my knowledge there was no "well documented" "off ice" issues with Kovalchuk.

I thought we were talking about obvious "off ice issues" that the casual fan might have been previously aware of.

I don't put much stock into the reputations plenty of players develop during the scouting process leading into the draft but I'm aware that they exist.

When Kovalchuk was signed (and even after he left) I continued to hear about his incredible work ethic and practice standards.

Petersen couldn't make the transition from up and comer signed to a big deal to be a starter to battling and losing out to a highly competitive incumbent. It destroyed his confidence to the point where he is now in danger of being out of the league after a 2nd organization couldn't revive him.

This is why I asked... I thought you were talking about previously existing concerns about work ethic or mentality but you're listing post hoc justifications for why the signings were bad ideas.

Which is fine... I don't neccesarily disagree was just seeking clarity cus I never heard a bad thing about Petersen or Kovalchuk as far as what kind of person they are.

I've heard all sorts of unfounded rumors about Kaliyev.

Hell there was a reddit theory that he was actually his own brother with a swapped identity years ago... total insanity in some cases.

Now, pure speculation on my part, but since that confidence crashed during the time frame in which the roster abruptly stopped the rebuild/retool and doubled-down on veterans to give Kopitar and Doughty their way, I can't help but wonder if there was some conflict there between the established old guard wanting to stick with their fading guy and the new players who have not been able to find a comfort zone to thrive in.

There's a much shorter timeline with much more specific line combos and players (some of whom are no longer with the team) if you want to construct a tighter narrative.

 

[Herby]

This has been an issue with Kaliyev since juniors though. He reportedly didn't interview well, and is supposedly introverted in an alpha male business. He dropped for a reason, and there was an abnormal amount of speculation about him in particular.

Honestly, the team evaluates skill sets just fine. But with the off-ice issues of Kovalchuk, Peterson, Dubois and Kaliyev, maybe it's time that they change how they view character. No, doesn't mean that anyone is a "bad guy", but rather a poor fit.

Lets reserve judgement and see how he does on his new team.

If he doesn't cut it, you can safely say it's on the player and can't blame the Kings. But if he goes somewhere else and becomes a solid goal-scorer and contributes to his new team then all of the blame is on the Kings for not being able to make it work.

 

[All The Kings Men]

If he doesn't cut it, you can safely say it's on the player and can't blame the Kings.

Why?

But if he goes somewhere else and becomes a solid goal-scorer and contributes to his new team then all of the blame is on the Kings for not being able to make it work.

Why?

 

[MonkeysUncle]

Why?

Why?

I think till the whole story comes out we the extent of who's to blame, but I doubt that will happen. It does seem like only a couple of prospects with more a offensive approach to the game dont development as well as others. It also seems to be when a player with that skill set comes in from another team that's been already established they seem to do better, but the Kings do need to know who they are drafting and if their Style would fit in their system that they currently use.

 

[bland]

Lets reserve judgement and see how he does on his new team.

If he doesn't cut it, you can safely say it's on the player and can't blame the Kings. But if he goes somewhere else and becomes a solid goal-scorer and contributes to his new team then all of the blame is on the Kings for not being able to make it work.

What if the rumors are true and nobody is willing to take even a minimal risk?

 

[bland]

I never thought the signing was a good idea in the first place but to the best of my knowledge there was no "well documented" "off ice" issues with Kovalchuk.

I thought we were talking about obvious "off ice issues" that the casual fan might have been previously aware of.

I don't put much stock into the reputations plenty of players develop during the scouting process leading into the draft but I'm aware that they exist.

When Kovalchuk was signed (and even after he left) I continued to hear about his incredible work ethic and practice standards.

This is why I asked... I thought you were talking about previously existing concerns about work ethic or mentality but you're listing post hoc justifications for why the signings were bad ideas.

Which is fine... I don't neccesarily disagree was just seeking clarity cus I never heard a bad thing about Petersen or Kovalchuk as far as what kind of person they are.

I've heard all sorts of unfounded rumors about Kaliyev.

Hell there was a reddit theory that he was actually his own brother with a swapped identity years ago... total insanity in some cases.

There's a much shorter timeline with much more specific line combos and players (some of whom are no longer with the team) if you want to construct a tighter narrative.

I am strictly discussing the total collapses here. There were ample reasons to avoid signing Kovalchuk, but he was left out of practices and road trips. That is abnormal behavior for the Kings.

Petersen collapsed in on himself and has yet to recover just after being given a starters contract.

Dubois is fairly obvious.

Kaliyev is less so, but it is peculiar that talent isn't the issue since talent on the cheap is a fairly common type of reclamation project around the league. If the stories are true and a mid round pick couldn't be had, you have to wonder what the deal is here.

And off-ice does seem to imply something sinister, but I am simply using it as a catch-all for everything away from the whistles since it is all conjecture and any number of things are plausible.

 

[bland]

I honestly just assumed it was somewhat related to McLellan in Edmonton, as Stevens was fired Nov 8 and McLellan was fired Nov 20.

Could be, Lombardi said at a breakfast once that he was willing to wait for Sutter to get his affairs in order. I wondered if that's why he brought Murray back after it was clear that his race had been run, and that the collapse that year led to Lombardi convincing Sutter to start mid-year instead of over the next summer.