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Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

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tigermask48 said:
How very "old boys club" of them and indicative of the organization's issue if true. And how very hilarious to spin this like it's some issue when it's coming from the person who thinks fighting and being tough is 90% of being good at hockey.
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Wtf does fighting has to do anything with this. And what spin?

I simply stated a fact from a source about Kayilev’s personality. Didn’t say it was bad or good, just said it is. Take it however you want.

Are you the fake news of HF? Spinning facts.
 
All The Kings Men said:
That's not what happened.

To start the preseason the line was 22-80-34.

Kaliyev got suspended after the Oct. 3rd preseason game against the Ducks.

In that game he played 10:10 at even strength with Fiala and Dubois.

In the last preseason game before the season started the team dressed 11 forwards and 7 defensemen and the lines were essentially

Byfield - Kopitar - Kempe
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson

Laferriere was not in the lineup.

After Arvidsson got placed on LTIR to start the season and Kaliyev was suspended for the first two games of the season Laferriere replaced Kaliyev on the 22-80 line for two games.

As soon as Kaliyev served his suspension he joined Danault and Moore while Laferriere remained on the second line.

Kaliyev played with Moore and Danault from Game 3 to Game 13.

In Game 14 v the Flyers Kaliyev was moved to a line with Laferriere and Dubois.

Fiala was moved to the line with Danault and Moore.

Fiala would go on to play almost 600 minutes with Danault and Moore. It was the second most common line combo the Kings used last season behind Byfield-Kopitar-Moore.

You can go back and find quotes from McLellan and Fiala et al about why the 80/22 pair was split up.

The second game on the Dubois line for Kaliyev was the game Laferriere got healthy scratched and they had JAD on the line with 80 and 34.

A few games later they bumped Grundstrom up to the Dubois Laferriere line because Grundstrom had been off to a hot start.

Kaliyev found himself on a line with JAD and Trevor Lewis.
That was game 18 I believe. Kaliyev had played in 16 of them.

Up to that point
Kaliyev had 3 goals, 8 assits and was +5 in 15 games
Laferriere had 2 goals, 2 assists and was +1 in 16 games
Grundstrom had 6 goals, 1 assist and was +6 in 17 games

Kaliyev was playing more minutes a game than either of them.

The two most common lines that Kaliyev appeared on were
129.8 minutes (5th most frequently used) 78-80-34
122 minutes (6th most frequently used) 12-24-34

he played 49 minutes with lizotte and lewis

I have my theories about what happened... him getting "outplayed" from the "Top 9" isn't one of them.

EDIT:

Just for more context cus I woke up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep...

The game that Kaliyev was placed with Lewis and JAD and Grundstrom bumped up was

11/24 a 5-2 win over the Ducks
11/25 a 4-0 win over MTL (Kaliyev w Lewis/JAD)
11/29 a 2-1 that 2-1 loss to the Washington Caps (34 w/ JAD/Lewis)
12/03 a 4-1 win over the Avs (34 w/ JAD/Lewis)

That led into the road trip where they beat Columbus in OT, shutout the Habs again and then got beat by the Islanders and Rangers on back to back nights on the road to end the unbeaten streak. Many have pointed to the Islanders game as the start of the "bad times" but I always pointed to the Columbus game even tho they won that one and the next one before dropping the two NY games.

At some point last season I went back to the game where they split up 80 and 22 and decided personally that was the "start" of the "slump" even tho the record held up for a few weeks.

The Kings record from moving Kaliyev to the 4th line in favor of Carl Grundstrom til the All-Star Break when McLellan was relieved of his duties
12-12-7

After Hiller took over they were 21-12-1
Before they made the Kaliyev/Grundstrom swap they were 11-3-3

Make of all of that what you will.
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Fair enough, good breakdown. I do think that if not for the emergence of Laf that would have stayed in the top 9, if in the lineup. Obviously Laf did not score as many points as Kaliyev but I do think Laf followed the process and played the system much more in line with what was being asked. In that sense I do think he out played Kaliyev. I take your point though.

You obviously have far more insight than any of us, even if you don’t know for certain/fact what has occurred. I know, my posts on Arty have been harsh BUT I was always fully on board with the pick and his progression even if he wasn’t always used as I would have liked (not that my view should carry any wait). I liked him based on the little I’d seen of him as a person. However I didn’t like his game this year and the leaking of him being unhappy and the reported trade request infuriated me. I don’t know where those leaks came from but I know where I’d put my money. Either way I suspect the leaks have played into this in some way and perhaps other stuff has occurred. If so we won’t know, nor do I believe we ever should. I’m a firm believer that ultimately everything should be done behind closed door, from both sides.
 
Statto said:
Fair enough, good breakdown. I do think that if not for the emergence of Laf that would have stayed in the top 9, if in the lineup. Obviously Laf did not score as many points as Kaliyev but I do think Laf followed the process and played the system much more in line with what was being asked. In that sense I do think he out played Kaliyev. I take your point though.

You obviously have far more insight than any of us, even if you don’t know for certain/fact what has occurred. I know, my posts on Arty have been harsh BUT I was always fully on board with the pick and his progression even if he wasn’t always used as I would have liked (not that my view should carry any wait). I liked him based on the little I’d seen of him as a person. However I didn’t like his game this year and the leaking of him being unhappy and the reported trade request infuriated me. I don’t know where those leaks came from but I know where I’d put my money. Either way I suspect the leaks have played into this in some way and perhaps other stuff has occurred. If so we won’t know, nor do I believe we ever should. I’m a firm believer that ultimately everything should be done behind closed door, from both sides.
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The problem with that is Laf is the perfect example of what's wrong with this team.

And I love Laf as a player but

23 points and -14 and that's the guy you reward while you bench all the other offensively talented kids

Look Laf SHOULD be rewarded for his playstyle, and vets should be benched when they're underperforming instead, I don't want to take the opportunity away from Laf who did all the 'hockey things' right but just could not score

But look at the message sent. Sorry, Kaliyev, PPG Thomas, AHL scoring machine looking ot take a step Fagemo, we're going to play some dead bodies in front of you OH and why can't you guys play more like this other kid who is a good little checker but couldn't score in a whorehouse with a fistful of 100s?
 
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THE DOG DAYS OF SUMMER...

452731868_18318914923146156_3848268981725769786_n.jpg
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
The problem with that is Laf is the perfect example of what's wrong with this team.

And I love Laf as a player but

23 points and -14 and that's the guy you reward while you bench all the other offensively talented kids

Look Laf SHOULD be rewarded for his playstyle, and vets should be benched when they're underperforming instead, I don't want to take the opportunity away from Laf who did all the 'hockey things' right but just could not score

But look at the message sent. Sorry, Kaliyev, PPG Thomas, AHL scoring machine looking ot take a step Fagemo, we're going to play some dead bodies in front of you OH and why can't you guys play more like this other kid who is a good little checker but couldn't score in a whorehouse with a fistful of 100s?
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The stench of the Bluc-Koala value system still permeates the org - ie they'll take a system guy who is a 5 in each skill category every day of the week vs some talent that has a few flaws. Believe in the system - top down central planning from the 1-3-1 politburo
 
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I was listening to the podcasts and reading the articles the Kings bloggers have posted about the offseason additions.
The consensus is the guys they brought in are all to beef up for the playoffs.
Seems like none of them mention Foegele, Jeannot, and Kuemper were all healthy scratches in the playoffs last year for their teams.
These guys may be a good fit for the Kings and work out but they paid a lot of capspace to get guys for the playoffs that actually didnt really play well in the playoffs…
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
The problem with that is Laf is the perfect example of what's wrong with this team.

And I love Laf as a player but

23 points and -14 and that's the guy you reward while you bench all the other offensively talented kids

Look Laf SHOULD be rewarded for his playstyle, and vets should be benched when they're underperforming instead, I don't want to take the opportunity away from Laf who did all the 'hockey things' right but just could not score

But look at the message sent. Sorry, Kaliyev, PPG Thomas, AHL scoring machine looking ot take a step Fagemo, we're going to play some dead bodies in front of you OH and why can't you guys play more like this other kid who is a good little checker but couldn't score in a whorehouse with a fistful of 100s?
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I don’t disagree, I’m just talking about what may have contributed to the situation and I agree that Kaliyev should have probably been deployed differently. However we don’t know what he was being asked to do, so it’s speculation.

I also agree about the veteran players being given too much rope, regardless of form. Also, unless Laf takes a big step I’m far from certain he should be on Kopitars wing as others seem to think. Although the -14 was not helped by being stapled to PLD for most of the year.
 
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KopitarGOAT420 said:
Kaliyev during the first 3 months of last season...

October: 7 games played, 5 points (2 goals)
November: 11 games played, 6 points (3 goals)
  • 11 points in his first 18 games played..... Not amazing of course but also bad at all
  • On pace for 22 goals and 50 points
December: 11 games played, 2 points (1 goal)

And as we know it was downhill from then on. This is a bit speculative... But it seems pretty clearly to me that the guy just completely lost his confidence as time went on. We can debate what caused that loss of confidence... But this guy could EASILY be a 20 goal, 50+ point winger if he's given a little leash, finds some confidence, and clicks with linemates. Kings should sign him to a cheap 1 year deal and give him another shot (in the top 9) - It's actually insane that he apparently has no trade value. He'll never drive a line by himself but that doesn't mean he can't be an effective player and point producer.

If things don't click for him in the first 20-30 games of next season (or if he just flat out loses a spot to one of Turcotte, Thomas, Fagemo, etc)... then you can try to trade him again. If all else fails you can bury him in the minors (assuming he passes through waivers - which would be very risky lol but if there isn't trade value there's not much else to do). I wouldn't mind seeing the following:

Foegele - Kopitar - Kempe
Fiala - Byfield - Kaliyev (Put Kaliyev with two VERY good playmakers and see what happens)
Moore - Danault - Laferriere
Jeannot - Turcotte - Thomas

There's a lotttt of youth in that forward group but there's also some serious potential there.
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that QB line would need such sheltered O-zone minutes.
 
Statto said:
I don’t disagree, I’m just talking about what may have contributed to the situation and I agree that Kaliyev should have probably been deployed differently. However we don’t know what he was being asked to do, so it’s speculation.

I also agree about the veteran players being given too much rope, regardless of form. Also, unless Laf takes a big step I’m far from certain he should be on Kopitars wing as others seem to think. Although the -14 was not helped by being stapled to PLD for most of the year.
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I'm kind of agreeing with you, im just saying that's the problem with the system

You're taking a racecar to the mud track and asking why he can't be more like a pickup truck
 
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Schmooley said:
I was listening to the podcasts and reading the articles the Kings bloggers have posted about the offseason additions.
The consensus is the guys they brought in are all to beef up for the playoffs.
Seems like none of them mention Foegele, Jeannot, and Kuemper were all healthy scratches in the playoffs last year for their teams.
These guys may be a good fit for the Kings and work out but they paid a lot of capspace to get guys for the playoffs that actually didnt really play well in the playoffs…
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Foegle played 22 games in the playoffs, Jeannott played 4 out of a 5 game series....

Not sure healthy scratch means what you think it means....
 
GoldenBearHockey said:
Foegle played 22 games in the playoffs, Jeannott played 4 out of a 5 game series....

Not sure healthy scratch means what you think it means....
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It means they were healthy and scratched. You just posted examples of players that were healthy and scratched.
 
Schmooley said:
I was listening to the podcasts and reading the articles the Kings bloggers have posted about the offseason additions.
The consensus is the guys they brought in are all to beef up for the playoffs.
Seems like none of them mention Foegele, Jeannot, and Kuemper were all healthy scratches in the playoffs last year for their teams.
These guys may be a good fit for the Kings and work out but they paid a lot of capspace to get guys for the playoffs that actually didnt really play well in the playoffs…
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it makes no sense when you think of some of the guys in Ontario that could have filled those roles.
 
YP44 said:
that QB line would need such sheltered O-zone minutes.
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Yeah prob true - Although Byfield is pretty damn solid defensively (granted, that remains to be seen at Center) and Fiala started to look better defensively last year while playing with Moore and Danault.

I like the idea of Fiala - Byfield - Kaliyev because the offensive potential is really intriguing but there'd definitely be some other interesting / more balanced options..

Fiala - Byfield - Kempe
Foegele - Kopitar - Laferriere
Moore - Danault - Kaliyev

Foegele - Kopitar - Kempe
Fiala - Byfield - Laferriere
Moore - Danault - Kaliyev

The more I think about it, the more it seems pretty clear that the Kings need to ice a first line of Fiala - Byfield - Kempe next season to have a chance to be competitive. Obviously that is going to be entirely dependent on how Byfield looks next year, but it would give them a legit 1st line assuming Byfield's the player we think/hope he is.

Then you'd have Kopi on the 2nd line playing reduced minutes, Danault and Moore on the 3rd line... Everything honestly kind of falls into place if that Fiala - Byfield - Kempe line works out. All 3 of those guys could be around a point/game next year, potentially better if they all play well together - Kings need that offensive firepower since they don't have a ton throughout the rest of the lineup.

Many would claim that we have no 1LW - Well, we actually do in Fiala but we choose to play him in our middle 6. People want Kopitar's minutes reduced and want Byfield to become a 1C - Why not give him that opportunity? Play Byfield with your two best wingers and really see what he can do. If they don't go with Fiala - Byfield - Kempe... Someone is going to be out of place, playing above their capabilities on the 1st line (even if it's Kopitar just due to his age).
 
Schmooley said:
It means they were healthy and scratched. You just posted examples of players that were healthy and scratched.
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LOL like I said, it doesn't mean what you think it means...when you play 22 of 25 playoff games, and 4 of 5 playoff games, you aren't healthy f***ing scratched.....
 
Here is the roster Rob Blake iced his first season as Kings GM.

1722041541827.png


7 years later, we still have 5 of the same players. Three of them our the opening night starters at center, defense and goal. Our 4C is now the best player. And Lewis is still blocking kids.

Listening to the Mayor talk to Boomer Gordon was entertaining for all the wrong reasons. First he ejaculated over getting rid of Dubois. Then he again compared Blake’s big misses to Lombardi’s for some reason. And finally he tripled down on mission accomplished for the offseason.

Since Dubois bounced, this guy is completely relieved to never talk about Dubois again. And if he is asked about it, he’s sticking to Blake pulling off a miracle by not surrendering more than he did to Washington. If he had put an opinion out there like that prior to the trade, he’d have a modicum of credibility but he has zero.

Next he compares Dean’s batting average to Blake’s at big swings. He says both had big misses, but glosses over Rob’s .000 average at the plate. Fiala is his biggest hit and the team is worse in the playoffs right afterwards.

And his biggest spin was the top party line message to the fanbase for the offseason. He literally told fans to discard the idea that concrete plans are more than one year at a time. Instead we should believe that every offseason plan was done with the best intentions, both short and long term.

And this seasons plan is team toughness. Which is a joke for any objective fan. We all know that when things fall apart the local media will be ready to shovel out the shit with an ear to ear grin.
 
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DoktorJeep said:
Here is the roster Rob Blake iced his first season as Kings GM.

View attachment 897316

7 years later, we still have 5 of the same players. Three of them our the opening night starters at center, defense and goal. Our 4C is now the best player. And Lewis is still blocking kids.

Listening to the Mayor talk to Boomer Gordon was entertaining for all the wrong reasons. First he ejaculated over getting rid of Dubois. Then he again compared Blake’s big misses to Lombardi’s for some reason. And finally he tripled down on mission accomplished for the offseason.

Since Dubois bounced, this guy is completely relieved to never talk about Dubois again. And if he is asked about it, he’s sticking to Blake pulling off a miracle by not surrendering more than he did to Washington. If he had put an opinion out there like that prior to the trade, he’d have a modicum of credibility but he has zero.

Next he compares Dean’s batting average to Blake’s at big swings. He says both had big misses, but glosses over Rob’s .000 average at the plate. Fiala is his biggest hit and the team is worse in the playoffs right afterwards.

And his biggest spin was the top party line message to the fanbase for the offseason. He literally told fans to discard the idea that concrete plans are more than one year at a time. Instead we should believe that every offseason plan was done with the best intentions, both short and long term.

And this seasons plan is team toughness. Which is a joke for any objective fan. We all know that when things fall apart the local media will be ready to shovel out the shit with an ear to ear grin.
Click to expand...

Who is Lewis blocking playing 4th line W.....?
 
DoktorJeep said:
Here is the roster Rob Blake iced his first season as Kings GM.

View attachment 897316

7 years later, we still have 5 of the same players. Three of them our the opening night starters at center, defense and goal. Our 4C is now the best player. And Lewis is still blocking kids.

Listening to the Mayor talk to Boomer Gordon was entertaining for all the wrong reasons. First he ejaculated over getting rid of Dubois. Then he again compared Blake’s big misses to Lombardi’s for some reason. And finally he tripled down on mission accomplished for the offseason.

Since Dubois bounced, this guy is completely relieved to never talk about Dubois again. And if he is asked about it, he’s sticking to Blake pulling off a miracle by not surrendering more than he did to Washington. If he had put an opinion out there like that prior to the trade, he’d have a modicum of credibility but he has zero.

Next he compares Dean’s batting average to Blake’s at big swings. He says both had big misses, but glosses over Rob’s .000 average at the plate. Fiala is his biggest hit and the team is worse in the playoffs right afterwards.

And his biggest spin was the top party line message to the fanbase for the offseason. He literally told fans to discard the idea that concrete plans are more than one year at a time. Instead we should believe that every offseason plan was done with the best intentions, both short and long term.

And this seasons plan is team toughness. Which is a joke for any objective fan. We all know that when things fall apart the local media will be ready to shovel out the shit with an ear to ear grin.
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I like Mayor, but I take with grain of salt as he is more pro management. He has to keep sources, won't rock boat. I do like Boomer to , but really wish he actually had someone else on at times that would make less excuses and more unbiased.
I am just though we do have multiple people covering team, I just take each at face value
 
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johnjm22 said:
Robitaille:

"Fagemo. He's gonna get chance this year. It's hard to do what he does. It's been harder with Kaliyev. For some reason he (Kaliyev) is not understanding the way we play. So hopefully we'll see what happens this Summer....you know<inaudible> it's been very loud about him."

I'm not sure what "not understanding the way we play" means, but that's straight from Luc.
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Defense and possession first.

To start the season,

objective #1 is foster a partnership up the line up with Fiala and QB, I make them the #1 line, to start the preseason with plenty of minutes.

Kings are gonna need 3 lines that can score, so you keep the two other pairs together in Kopi and Adrian, PD and Mooo.

Any young winger would be frothing for a shot with any one of those pairs

Have at it boys!
 
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MonkeysUncle said:
lines could be
Turc Kopi Kempe
Foegle QB Fiala
Moore Danault Fagemo
Jeannot Thomas Laffy
In this scenario with lewis in line up he would be blocking Fagemo who needs legit opportunity to play.
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Why? I mean, are you really putting Turcotte up on the 1st line?

Mine as well say, lines could be....and then make whatever you want up.....

Lewis isn't blocking Fagemo because Lewis isnt playing top 9 anywhere.
 
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