Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

tigermask48

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Mar 10, 2004
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And off-ice does seem to imply something sinister, but I am simply using it as a catch-all for everything away from the whistles since it is all conjecture and any number of things are plausible.
That's not what off-ice issues are.

Off-ice issues are Stoll and his cocaine, Richards getting popped at the border with... something.
Off-ice issues are Voynov facing DV charges, Doughty facing rape allegations.

But hey, let's ignore all those because well, reasons I guess? :dunno:
 

SmytheKing

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Apr 7, 2007
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That's not what off-ice issues are.

Off-ice issues are Stoll and his cocaine, Richards getting popped at the border with... something.
Off-ice issues are Voynov facing DV charges, Doughty facing rape allegations.

But hey, let's ignore all those because well, reasons I guess? :dunno:
As he already said, bland isn't implying Kaliyev is doing anything "wrong", he's saying that the issue has nothing to do with his play on the ice (speculating) and that it's something more to do with personality or attitude or something we can't see or know about.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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Why?

Why?

Because it keeps freaking happening?

The 'sorry he's not a fit' stuff is getting old since apparently the players that ARE a fit only result in a black hole, trending down team. If they can't adapt to players that they are repeatedly acquiring, why are we 'blaming' Kaliyev for anything here?
 

King'sPawn

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That's not what off-ice issues are.

Off-ice issues are Stoll and his cocaine, Richards getting popped at the border with... something.
Off-ice issues are Voynov facing DV charges, Doughty facing rape allegations.

But hey, let's ignore all those because well, reasons I guess? :dunno:
bland can speak for himself, but it seems he is referring to "off-ice" issues as anything not specific to how he plays. He's not even saying it's a good thing. But a reality of how organizations handle certain players who deviate from an accepted personality threshold. Which is true. The org shot themselves in the dick when Cernak opened up about being "afraid" as an 18/19 year-old.

It's possible similar but different factors play into how they are handling Kaliyev. Not that it's okay.

But IF it's true, and another personality clash over something benign led to a mishandling of a player, then that's another problem.

Unless someone (whether it's Kaliyev or someone from the org) says something one way or the other, it would just be speculation.
 
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bland

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That's not what off-ice issues are.

Off-ice issues are Stoll and his cocaine, Richards getting popped at the border with... something.
Off-ice issues are Voynov facing DV charges, Doughty facing rape allegations.

But hey, let's ignore all those because well, reasons I guess? :dunno:

That's your narrow definition, and honestly I have explained this with the same disclaimer over and over so you are on your own here.
 

DoktorJeep

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Why believe Kaliyev has off ice issues now? A year ago he was a key player going into camp. According to the GM.

During the period his stock has sunk, the team has underperformed. And management is being questioned because their major decisions have failed to move the team forward.

McLellan spoke about valuing players he could win with. He was fired so maybe his evaluation of players was wrong. But no, let’s find more reasons for Kaliyev to not be a top 9 forward on a team that can’t score enough goals to make progress.
 

bland

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Because it keeps freaking happening?

The 'sorry he's not a fit' stuff is getting old since apparently the players that ARE a fit only result in a black hole, trending down team. If they can't adapt to players that they are repeatedly acquiring, why are we 'blaming' Kaliyev for anything here?
There's enough here to go around and just say it didn't work out.

Kaliyev is a one-dimensional kid who is soft in board battles and late on his reads, then after sitting would start each game with a strong shift before settling back into slow drift by's and weak stick waves at the puck. Not terribly unusual stuff for a sniper, but if he has resisted or been unable to meet other requirements, I can easily see the teams frustration with him.

But the team hasn't been able to reach him and apparently decided that his skill set doesn't matter as much as toeing the cookie cutter line. And their vetting process didn't weed out what may have been a concern for other organizations who let a first round talent slide. That last bit is the biggest concern of it all to me.
 

MonkeysUncle

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May 31, 2024
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Why believe Kaliyev has off ice issues now? A year ago he was a key player going into camp. According to the GM.

During the period his stock has sunk, the team has underperformed. And management is being questioned because their major decisions have failed to move the team forward.

McLellan spoke about valuing players he could win with. He was fired so maybe his evaluation of players was wrong. But no, let’s find more reasons for Kaliyev to not be a top 9 forward on a team that can’t score enough goals to make progress.
Let's hope the Kaliyev situation gets resolved soon, whether it's with trade that brings Kings something that will benefit them or they mend relationship and hopefully Kaliyev succeeds with either scenario.
 

Surf Nutz

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out of curiosity

what perceived "off-ice issues" were there for Petersen and Kovalchuk?

How dare you!!???

The Bland of Oz has spoken!

He is oh so introverted but its nunya bizness!,

Oh my gosh, now you question the Herbster!!???

No Michigan ice fisherman knows more about the Kings pitfalls than him?

Who doo you think yoooo are Mister???



:popcorn:

As for Kaliyev, my speculation got deleted in the past.

But why would Turcotte protectively big brother Arthur on young Kings outing at the beach?

Something that did happen.

Heat wave weeks are the best entertainment value here for sure

Thanks girls and guys!



yet Vilardi gets shipped out because of the chip on his shoulder and mild-ass PLD gets brought in on a 8x8 and every chance in the world to sort it out

Maybe we should be less angry at Kaliyev and more focused on the management team that doesn't seem to know/evaluate personalities and how they'll fit and/or what to do with them on any level.

You don't interview the guy, still draft him, then go surprised pikachu and use him like shit. It's basically what they did with Kovalchuk, except with more opportunity to get ahead of it. The way people are coming at Kaliyev for not 'following the outline' is bat shit insane.
I might have missed something but where was the ship because the chip theory applied to Gabrittlial Vilowiie?
 
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GoldenBearHockey

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Jan 6, 2014
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Orr should not be included on his list either as that more injury related.

There's that......but keep in mind, not much common sense when it comes to this subject with this one, when Byfield's contract is up, we should trade him for whatever we can get.....because in his NHL, prospects and draft picks win cups
 

DoktorJeep

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Let's hope the Kaliyev situation gets resolved soon, whether it's with trade that brings Kings something that will benefit them or they mend relationship and hopefully Kaliyev succeeds with either scenario.
If hopes and wishes were loaves and fishes, something something.

In the grand scheme of things, Kaliyev is another wash out, but not a catastrophe because he’s a second rounder. Just more wasted capital and opportunity. When you’re never really expected to contend, it’s just shooting under par.
 

MonkeysUncle

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If hopes and wishes were loaves and fishes, something something.

In the grand scheme of things, Kaliyev is another wash out, but not a catastrophe because he’s a second rounder. Just more wasted capital and opportunity. When you’re never really expected to contend, it’s just shooting under par.
Well a 2nd round pick is something valuable and you don't want to mess those up to often whether it's a pick or trade and yesasset management has definitely left something to be desired lately, but hey sometimes wishes do come true🙂
 
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johnjm22

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Aug 2, 2005
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Robitaille:

"Fagemo. He's gonna get chance this year. It's hard to do what he does. It's been harder with Kaliyev. For some reason he (Kaliyev) is not understanding the way we play. So hopefully we'll see what happens this Summer....you know<inaudible> it's been very loud about him."

I'm not sure what "not understanding the way we play" means, but that's straight from Luc.
 
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KopitarGOAT420

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Kaliyev during the first 3 months of last season...

October: 7 games played, 5 points (2 goals)
November: 11 games played, 6 points (3 goals)
  • 11 points in his first 18 games played..... Not amazing of course but also bad at all
  • On pace for 22 goals and 50 points
December: 11 games played, 2 points (1 goal)

And as we know it was downhill from then on. This is a bit speculative... But it seems pretty clearly to me that the guy just completely lost his confidence as time went on. We can debate what caused that loss of confidence... But this guy could EASILY be a 20 goal, 50+ point winger if he's given a little leash, finds some confidence, and clicks with linemates. Kings should sign him to a cheap 1 year deal and give him another shot (in the top 9) - It's actually insane that he apparently has no trade value. He'll never drive a line by himself but that doesn't mean he can't be an effective player and point producer.

If things don't click for him in the first 20-30 games of next season (or if he just flat out loses a spot to one of Turcotte, Thomas, Fagemo, etc)... then you can try to trade him again. If all else fails you can bury him in the minors (assuming he passes through waivers - which would be very risky lol but if there isn't trade value there's not much else to do). I wouldn't mind seeing the following:

Foegele - Kopitar - Kempe
Fiala - Byfield - Kaliyev (Put Kaliyev with two VERY good playmakers and see what happens)
Moore - Danault - Laferriere
Jeannot - Turcotte - Thomas

There's a lotttt of youth in that forward group but there's also some serious potential there.
 

Telos

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Danault gave a French interview and spoke on the PLD ordeal:


The only English follow-up I see:




Sensationalist title and Gio overstates what was said, but essentially Danault admitted the obvious to the media that the PLD trade hurt the team and the Kings lost a lot of players to get PLD. He also joked that it would have been better if they faced Vancouver :P
 

BaileyFan

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Jun 14, 2023
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In Rob and Luc’s twisted minds, they probably blame Kaliyev for PLD sucking and making them look like the biggest fools in the league. Remember they were saying before the season that Kaliyev was going to be a big part of the team and was going to be a fixture with PLD and Fiala.

The sheer hubris of this 22 year old rook to not pop off with the $8.5M dollar man and make us look stupid for dealing Vilardi. Enjoy the press box nerd.
 

King'sPawn

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Robitaille:

"Fagemo. He's gonna get chance this year. It's hard to do what he does. It's been harder with Kaliyev. For some reason he (Kaliyev) is not understanding the way we play. So hopefully we'll see what happens this Summer....you know<inaudible> it's been very loud about him."

I'm not sure what "not understanding the way we play" means, but that's straight from Luc.
But aren't the Kings going to play a different syst- oh nevermind.
 

bland

Registered User
Jul 1, 2004
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Why?

Why?
To your knowledge, has Kaliyev participated in any of the Kings various community events?

Just curious, I don't know that I have heard of him engaging with the media or public in any capacity. I would be interested in learning more about him as a person.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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Kaliyev during the first 3 months of last season...

October: 7 games played, 5 points (2 goals)
November: 11 games played, 6 points (3 goals)
  • 11 points in his first 18 games played..... Not amazing of course but also bad at all
  • On pace for 22 goals and 50 points
December: 11 games played, 2 points (1 goal)

And as we know it was downhill from then on. This is a bit speculative... But it seems pretty clearly to me that the guy just completely lost his confidence as time went on. We can debate what caused that loss of confidence... But this guy could EASILY be a 20 goal, 50+ point winger if he's given a little leash, finds some confidence, and clicks with linemates. Kings should sign him to a cheap 1 year deal and give him another shot (in the top 9) - It's actually insane that he apparently has no trade value. He'll never drive a line by himself but that doesn't mean he can't be an effective player and point producer.

If things don't click for him in the first 20-30 games of next season (or if he just flat out loses a spot to one of Turcotte, Thomas, Fagemo, etc)... then you can try to trade him again. If all else fails you can bury him in the minors (assuming he passes through waivers - which would be very risky lol but if there isn't trade value there's not much else to do). I wouldn't mind seeing the following:

Foegele - Kopitar - Kempe
Fiala - Byfield - Kaliyev (Put Kaliyev with two VERY good playmakers and see what happens)
Moore - Danault - Laferriere
Jeannot - Turcotte - Thomas

There's a lotttt of youth in that forward group but there's also some serious potential there.
kaliyev was also excellent with Moore and Danault

I dunno, the more i look at it, the more there are some interchangeable parts in that top 9 especially. Keep Kopi and Kempe together and Moore and Danault but Laf, Foegele, Kaliyev and to a lesser degree Fiala can all move around.
 

Statto

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Kaliyev during the first 3 months of last season...

October: 7 games played, 5 points (2 goals)
November: 11 games played, 6 points (3 goals)
  • 11 points in his first 18 games played..... Not amazing of course but also bad at all
  • On pace for 22 goals and 50 points
December: 11 games played, 2 points (1 goal)

And as we know it was downhill from then on. This is a bit speculative... But it seems pretty clearly to me that the guy just completely lost his confidence as time went on. We can debate what caused that loss of confidence... But this guy could EASILY be a 20 goal, 50+ point winger if he's given a little leash, finds some confidence, and clicks with linemates. Kings should sign him to a cheap 1 year deal and give him another shot (in the top 9) - It's actually insane that he apparently has no trade value. He'll never drive a line by himself but that doesn't mean he can't be an effective player and point producer.

If things don't click for him in the first 20-30 games of next season (or if he just flat out loses a spot to one of Turcotte, Thomas, Fagemo, etc)... then you can try to trade him again. If all else fails you can bury him in the minors (assuming he passes through waivers - which would be very risky lol but if there isn't trade value there's not much else to do). I wouldn't mind seeing the following:

Foegele - Kopitar - Kempe
Fiala - Byfield - Kaliyev (Put Kaliyev with two VERY good playmakers and see what happens)
Moore - Danault - Laferriere
Jeannot - Turcotte - Thomas

There's a lotttt of youth in that forward group but there's also some serious potential there.
They have offered him a cheap one year deal as he was qualified. He hasn’t signed it yet and I doubt they will increase the QO.
 
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Statto

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In Rob and Luc’s twisted minds, they probably blame Kaliyev for PLD sucking and making them look like the biggest fools in the league. Remember they were saying before the season that Kaliyev was going to be a big part of the team and was going to be a fixture with PLD and Fiala.

The sheer hubris of this 22 year old rook to not pop off with the $8.5M dollar man and make us look stupid for dealing Vilardi. Enjoy the press box nerd.
I’m sure you are correct and it had nothing to do with his response to Laf outplaying him and keeping him out of the top 9.
 

All The Kings Men

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I’m sure you are correct and it had nothing to do with his response to Laf outplaying him and keeping him out of the top 9.
That's not what happened.

To start the preseason the line was 22-80-34.

Kaliyev got suspended after the Oct. 3rd preseason game against the Ducks.

In that game he played 10:10 at even strength with Fiala and Dubois.

In the last preseason game before the season started the team dressed 11 forwards and 7 defensemen and the lines were essentially

Byfield - Kopitar - Kempe
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson

Laferriere was not in the lineup.

After Arvidsson got placed on LTIR to start the season and Kaliyev was suspended for the first two games of the season Laferriere replaced Kaliyev on the 22-80 line for two games.

As soon as Kaliyev served his suspension he joined Danault and Moore while Laferriere remained on the second line.

Kaliyev played with Moore and Danault from Game 3 to Game 13.

In Game 14 v the Flyers Kaliyev was moved to a line with Laferriere and Dubois.

Fiala was moved to the line with Danault and Moore.

Fiala would go on to play almost 600 minutes with Danault and Moore. It was the second most common line combo the Kings used last season behind Byfield-Kopitar-Moore.

You can go back and find quotes from McLellan and Fiala et al about why the 80/22 pair was split up.

The second game on the Dubois line for Kaliyev was the game Laferriere got healthy scratched and they had JAD on the line with 80 and 34.

A few games later they bumped Grundstrom up to the Dubois Laferriere line because Grundstrom had been off to a hot start.

Kaliyev found himself on a line with JAD and Trevor Lewis.
That was game 18 I believe. Kaliyev had played in 16 of them.

Up to that point
Kaliyev had 3 goals, 8 assits and was +5 in 15 games
Laferriere had 2 goals, 2 assists and was +1 in 16 games
Grundstrom had 6 goals, 1 assist and was +6 in 17 games

Kaliyev was playing more minutes a game than either of them.

The two most common lines that Kaliyev appeared on were
129.8 minutes (5th most frequently used) 78-80-34
122 minutes (6th most frequently used) 12-24-34

he played 49 minutes with lizotte and lewis

I have my theories about what happened... him getting "outplayed" from the "Top 9" isn't one of them.

EDIT:

Just for more context cus I woke up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep...

The game that Kaliyev was placed with Lewis and JAD and Grundstrom bumped up was

11/24 a 5-2 win over the Ducks
11/25 a 4-0 win over MTL (Kaliyev w Lewis/JAD)
11/29 a 2-1 that 2-1 loss to the Washington Caps (34 w/ JAD/Lewis)
12/03 a 4-1 win over the Avs (34 w/ JAD/Lewis)

That led into the road trip where they beat Columbus in OT, shutout the Habs again and then got beat by the Islanders and Rangers on back to back nights on the road to end the unbeaten streak. Many have pointed to the Islanders game as the start of the "bad times" but I always pointed to the Columbus game even tho they won that one and the next one before dropping the two NY games.

At some point last season I went back to the game where they split up 80 and 22 and decided personally that was the "start" of the "slump" even tho the record held up for a few weeks.

The Kings record from moving Kaliyev to the 4th line in favor of Carl Grundstrom til the All-Star Break when McLellan was relieved of his duties
12-12-7

After Hiller took over they were 21-12-1
Before they made the Kaliyev/Grundstrom swap they were 11-3-3

Make of all of that what you will.
 
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