Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[funky]

Anyone hear the interview between Yanetti and Hoven? Pretty good.

I actually enjoyed it. There’s a few things that Yank said that might get him in trouble with his bosses, but so be it. I wish Hoven would’ve let him talk about Kaliyev a little bit more instead of cut him off.

It almost sounds like Yank believes there’s still value in Kaliyev that the team is going to recoup that value in a trade. Unfortunately, they turned to another subject too fast.

Interesting take on the two Danish prospects. Yannetti sees them being gone in the first round for sure. I may have to do a little bit of research into those two.

I loved how he explained the Bjornfot situation. Was on both team and player.

I just found it refreshing that he was willing to throw the organization under the bus on a few things and not just put all the blame on the players

Also, like the fact that he was pissed off about Dallas being smarter than them and acknowledging they may have to change the way they do things. At least someone in the organization is willing to try and adapt.

Also like his interpretation of a couple of the prospects from the Hughes draft debacle . I have very high hopes for Connors as well as it takes 12 forwards to make a team and I am not against drafting high-end bottom six players as we need those roles filled for cheap.

Even if people aren’t the biggest Hoven fans this interview as well worth the listen

 

[Bandit]

Hey guys, just found a leak of the kings new primary logo for next year!

 

[BaileyFan]

Clarke's handing has been as ridiculous as any prospect in the NHL that I can remember.

The age 19 season where he is jerked around (worrying about a f***ing ELC), ends up playing for 3 different teams (4 if you count WJC). He is finally sent back to the OHL, he proceeds to completely destroy the OHL at levels we have not seen in by a defenseman decades. And he is rewarded with spending the majority of his age 20 season dominating the AHL while making peanuts, meanwhile comparable defenders (Hughes, Faber, Power etc.) are making almost a million dollars in the NHL. Even more ridiculous when you factor in the Kings lack of skill in the entire lineup and especially on the blueline, the Kings had 30 goals total from d-man not named Clarke, 15 of those by one player.

The development decision in his age 19 season was bad, but you could argue the age 20 one was just as bad.

Everything bad about the Kings stems from their belief that they are a contender that is right there with the other top teams in the league. They can spin all the BS they want about Clarke’s development or bonuses but if they were to be completely honest off the record, they’d tell you that they’re just scared he’d make the one rookie mistake that winds up derailing their Cup run. It’s asinine.

 

[Herby]

I didn't group Faber or Grans, or anyone else that got traded etc

You keep saying there is no way Clarke would be handled the same way...yet you literally have Hickey being handled that way....you say Byfield wouldn't be handled that way but you had Schenn going down the same path before he was traded...

You completely ignore Kaliyev, Bjornfoot, Laferriere, Spence, Clarke etc all players who played NHL games BEFORE they were in the AHL.....

You bring up Thomas and Turcotte, like their injuries are just normal career arcs, instead of delaying everything, the one case you have, Fagemo and he couldn't handle it on another NHL and got waived again.....

You think Clark and Hickey are comparable? Thomas Hickey was a huge career disappointment, he just wasn't good enough. You continue to jump to this conclusion that saying they didn't slowplay a decade ago means that everybody was fast-tracked. Not everybody was fast-tracked, players who were reasonably good enough and/or gained in their development played. You realize that development can be done at the NHL level, right? It's been that way forever, not everybody plays.

So let me get this straight, I am told to "keep it factual" about Moller and Clifford playing two and seven AHL playoff games as 18 year olds following their junior season.

But here you are, literally less than 24 hours later claiming that Jordan Spence played in the NHL before playing in the AHL, here is the "factual" information, he played 46 regular season games in the AHL before being called up, when the Kings were completely decimated by injuries on defense. Please, heed your own advice and keep it factual.

Oh look, same thing with Kaliyev, what happened to "Keeping it factual"?... Arthur Kaliyev played 40 games for the Reign in 20-21, and one for the Kings, which did not come before his AHL games. God forbid I miss on 2 and 7 games following a junior season 15 years ago, but Mr. Fact-Check can miss 46 and 40 games for seasons in this decade, keep it factual lmao. .

Bjornfot played 1 game, 1 single game before spending the entire year in the AHL.

Laffy did made the jump, but as has been discussed already, the Kings under Blake are willing to give depth spots to NCAA veterans without major AHL time (Iafallo, Lizotte, Laffy). Anyone younger than that or expected to play a significant role in the future, they have to pay their dues and learn the system.

Oh and now we discuss Turcotte's injuries. But hey atleast this one isn't pretending he'd magically be scoring if he hadn't gotten hurt, as is usually the case around here. But hey, let me guess you were here arguing when Turcotte was signed about the dangers of sending a player who was undersized and underdeveloped, was bullied in the Big 10 and often skated with his head down in college to the AHL as a teenager? Oh wait, no, you were here telling us how it was the right move, how he'd benefit from being in the Kings system, blah blah blah. Yeah a player who was a twig in college, already had suffered through injuries and skated with his head down maybe shouldn't have been in a league known for players throwing cheapshots. Maybe you should do something you have never done in your life and actually blame Rob Blake for most of what has happened to that player.

Keep it factual ... lol

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You think Clark and Hickey are comparable? Thomas Hickey was a huge career disappointment, he just wasn't good enough. You continue to jump to this conclusion that saying they didn't slowplay a decade ago means that everybody was fast-tracked. Not everybody was fast-tracked, players who were reasonably good enough and/or gained in their development played. You realize that development can be done at the NHL level, right? It's been that way forever, not everybody plays.

So let me get this straight, I am told to "keep it factual" about Moller and Clifford playing two and seven AHL playoff games as 18 year olds following their junior season.

But here you are, literally less than 24 hours later claiming that Jordan Spence played in the NHL before playing in the AHL, here is the "factual" information, he played 46 regular season games in the AHL before being called up, when the Kings were completely decimated by injuries on defense. Please, heed your own advice and keep it factual.

Oh look, same thing with Kaliyev, what happened to "Keeping it factual"?... Arthur Kaliyev played 40 games for the Reign in 20-21, and one for the Kings, which did not come before his AHL games. God forbid I miss on 2 and 7 games following a junior season 15 years ago, but Mr. Fact-Check can miss 46 and 40 games for seasons in this decade, keep it factual lmao. .

Bjornfot played 1 game, 1 single game before spending the entire year in the AHL.

Laffy did made the jump, but as has been discussed already, the Kings under Blake are willing to give depth spots to NCAA veterans without major AHL time (Iafallo, Lizotte, Laffy). Anyone younger than that or expected to play a significant role in the future, they have to pay their dues and learn the system.

Oh and now we discuss Turcotte's injuries. But hey atleast this one isn't pretending he'd magically be scoring if he hadn't gotten hurt, as is usually the case around here. But hey, let me guess you were here arguing when Turcotte was signed about the dangers of sending a player who was undersized and underdeveloped, was bullied in the Big 10 and often skated with his head down in college to the AHL as a teenager? Oh wait, no, you were here telling us how it was the right move, how he'd benefit from being in the Kings system, blah blah blah. Yeah a player who was a twig in college, already had suffered through injuries and skated with his head down maybe shouldn't have been in a league known for players throwing cheapshots. Maybe you should do something you have never done in your life and actually blame Rob Blake for most of what has happened to that player.

Keep it factual ... lol

You keep jumping from slow cooked...to no AHL games before NHL games.....but yea, Spence and Kaliyev, I misread the statline on hockey DB....the absolute f***ing shit show horror of that....quick glancing at them lists NHL first, then AHL....but hey shit happens.

So are we talking about slow cooking them through their D2 years, or just throwing them right into the NHL....If we are talking about slow cooking them...draft picks 1 and 2, how the f*** do you argue that DL wasn't slow cooking them when he has 1300 games with draft picks in the 1st two rounds, vs 800 nhl games....

Here's a major hint....it's player specific....here's another hint, if you noticed the majority of those NHL games came early on in his tenure, he then started to move towards slow cooking them as the majority of those AHL games came during/after the cup years....

Hickey was a 4th OA Pick, that never made it to the NHL his first 2-3 years after being drafted, that's LITERALLY what you are arguing DL never did, and Blake does all the time....

 

[MonkeysUncle]

I just saw Bjornfot being interviewed on the Panther's Board. He looked ecstatic to be going to the Finals (and to be out of LA). I'm willing to bet he could become another Forsling and make Bluc look like the idiots they are.

Yrp

 

[Herby]

Everything bad about the Kings stems from their belief that they are a contender that is right there with the other top teams in the league. They can spin all the BS they want about Clarke’s development or bonuses but if they were to be completely honest off the record, they’d tell you that they’re just scared he’d make the one rookie mistake that winds up derailing their Cup run. It’s asinine.

Oh thanks for mentioning the bonuses. I had completely forgotten about that nonsense in my response to RJ.

Since I am told Pravda is an inappropriate and mean name, this is what the Mouth of Sauron said about the bonuses to justify Clark not playing.

The Story: Playing Brandt Clarke Too Much This Season Brings Risk for Kings

mayorsmanor.com

He can earn those ‘A’ Level Bonuses by achieving any of the following milestones while playing in the NHL:

-10 goals
-25 assists
-40 points
-Top two among defensemen on team in blocked shots
-End-of Season All Rookie Team

-Top four in Time on Ice among Defensemen (in total and/or per game) on team (minimum 42 games)
-Top three in +/- among defensemen on team (minimum 42 games)
-0.49 points per game (minimum 42 games)

-All Star Selection
-All Star MVP

This was written in January, roughly half way through the season. So Dumb and Dumber claimed the Kings were contenders, yet they were worried that Clarke might end up producing at levels similar to the elite offensive d-man in the league like Hughes Fox and Bouchard (oh the horror!) and they might have to pay him a bonusus that would equal 1/4 of what Pierre-Luc DuSquat's cap hit is, for playing hockey at a Norris trophy level.

Could you imagine the Rangers, Canucks, Avs, Devils, Wild doing this with Fox, Q. Hughes, Makar or L. Hughes?

Mickey Mouse organization from top to bottom.

 

[Nasti]

Hickey was a 4th OA Pick, that never made it to the NHL his first 2-3 years after being drafted, that's LITERALLY what you are arguing DL never did, and Blake does all the time....

To be fair, Hickey was an unexpected off-the-board pick in a weak draft and the Kings took him because he may not have been available when they picked again in the second round. No one thought he was a top prospect. Clarke is a different situation.

 

[Herby]

You keep jumping from slow cooked...to no AHL games before NHL games.....but yea, Spence and Kaliyev, I misread the statline on hockey DB....the absolute f***ing shit show horror of that....quick glancing at them lists NHL first, then AHL....but hey shit happens.

So are we talking about slow cooking them through their D2 years, or just throwing them right into the NHL....If we are talking about slow cooking them...draft picks 1 and 2, how the f*** do you argue that DL wasn't slow cooking them when he has 1300 games with draft picks in the 1st two rounds, vs 800 nhl games....

Here's a major hint....it's player specific....here's another hint, if you noticed the majority of those NHL games came early on in his tenure, he then started to move towards slow cooking them as the majority of those AHL games came during/after the cup years....

Hickey was a 4th OA Pick, that never made it to the NHL his first 2-3 years after being drafted, that's LITERALLY what you are arguing DL never did, and Blake does all the time....

Oh look, GBH has resorted to the profanity again, this is when you know he is on the ropes.

Maybe if you are going to come in with an arrogant "Keep it factual" for missing on 9 total games between two players at the end of their junior season you should check your work to make sure you aren't missing on 86 regular season games.

He wasn't slow cooking because he put plenty of young players into important roles in the NHL and kept them their without AHL time. Blake has never done that.

You say it's "Player Specific" when I bring up the rest of the league doing things totally differently, but it's never "player specific" with LA's high end guys, it's always the AHL, and you defend it. You claim player specific but defend the complete opposite, just wild. You really think other teams are handing Byfield and Clarke this way? How many #2 overall pick forwards in the last 15 years played in the AHL? How many Top 10 pick defenseman have had the type of 19 year old season Clarke had in the OHL and then play almost a full season in the AHL? Is it your opinion that Clarke just isn't as good as all those other d-man mentioned?

 

[DoktorJeep]

Well as far as I understand it his ties are some sort of partnership (probably not the right term) with the team. I forget exactly what the term is. He certainly gets better access than most.

Only thing less credible than speculation is a foggy memory after the fact.

 

[Herby]

I just started listening.

I liked Yanetti's answer on how they evaluate size. I think him saying that size is just a tiebreaker is spot on, and I think that is how most organizations now operate. If you have two players in the same tier, and one is 6'2 and the other is 5'10, you take the 6'2 guy, but you don't take the 6'2 guy if he's a tier below the 5'10 guy. I think to often though people just automatically eliminate or want nothing to do with the 5'10 player, and that is how guys like Hughes end up falling below people they never should have fallen below.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh look, GBH has resorted to the profanity again, this is when you know he is on the ropes.

Maybe if you are going to come in with an arrogant "Keep it factual" for missing on 9 total games between two players at the end of their junior season you should check your work to make sure you aren't missing on 86 regular season games.

He wasn't slow cooking because he put plenty of young players into important roles in the NHL and kept them their without AHL time. Blake has never done that.

You say it's "Player Specific" when I bring up the rest of the league doing things totally differently, but it's never "player specific" with LA's high end guys, it's always the AHL, and you defend it. You claim player specific but defend the complete opposite, just wild. You really think other teams are handing Byfield and Clarke this way? How many #2 overall pick forwards in the last 15 years played in the AHL? How many Top 10 pick defenseman have had the type of 19 year old season Clarke had in the OHL and then play almost a full season in the AHL? Is it your opinion that Clarke just isn't as good as all those other d-man mentioned?

Yep, defintely screwed the pooch on the stats, you got me there, I'm so embarrassed...

So he didnt slow cook Voynov? He didn't slow cook Forbort? He didnt slow cook Bernier and Lewis?

Yes, DL put guys straight into the NHL, Simmonds, Doughty etc, he also slow cooked guys, Voynov, Forbort etc,

Blake has put guys straight into the NHL, and he has slow cooked guy, you point at Byfield as being slow cooked, the kid has 59 AHL games played, how in the f*** is that slow cooked? Kempe had nearly double at 104....

Nemec in NJ played in the AHL, last year, a quarter of this year, then was called up
Seattle, Shane Wright, in the AHL,
Columbus - David Jiricek
Detroit - Marco Kasper
Edmonton - Broberg
Vancouver - Podkolzin
Arizona - Soderstrom
Dallas - Harley
Jersey - Holtz
Buffalo - Jack Quinn
Minnesota - Rossi
Edmonton - Holloway
Detroit - Edvinsson
San Jose - Eklund
Calgary - Corranato
Buffalo - Rosen


Clearly not all top #2, but when you have to be so damn specific just to make your point, those are all top half picks that have played in the AHL, more game than Byfield most of of them......but your argument is going to be, they aren't #2 OA picks......

 

[funky]

A bit off-topic is anyone concerned with the Kings meeting with Roy’s representatives? To me it is progression when you replace your soon to be $5 million defenseman with your up-and-coming best prospect that makes league minimum.


If BLUC for some reason wants to waste or limited contract space on Roy, does that make Spence a trade asset? I’ve heard people say they could trade Gavrikov and put Roy or one of the young puck movers on their off side, but Gavrikov also has a no trade clause.

Since we know, Kaliyev is no longer coming back, what does a Kaliyev and Spence tandem in a trade return us?

Some team has to jump at the chance of getting too young NHL quality players at a cheap price into their organization.

 

[Herby]

Yep, defintely screwed the pooch on the stats, you got me there, I'm so embarrassed...

So he didnt slow cook Voynov? He didn't slow cook Forbort? He didnt slow cook Bernier and Lewis?

Yes, DL put guys straight into the NHL, Simmonds, Doughty etc, he also slow cooked guys, Voynov, Forbort etc,

Blake has put guys straight into the NHL, and he has slow cooked guy, you point at Byfield as being slow cooked, the kid has 59 AHL games played, how in the f*** is that slow cooked? Kempe had nearly double at 104....

Nemec in NJ played in the AHL, last year, a quarter of this year, then was called up
Seattle, Shane Wright, in the AHL,
Columbus - David Jiricek
Detroit - Marco Kasper
Edmonton - Broberg
Vancouver - Podkolzin
Arizona - Soderstrom
Dallas - Harley
Jersey - Holtz
Buffalo - Jack Quinn
Minnesota - Rossi
Edmonton - Holloway
Detroit - Edvinsson
San Jose - Eklund
Calgary - Corranato
Buffalo - Rosen


Clearly not all top #2, but when you have to be so damn specific just to make your point, those are all top half picks that have played in the AHL, more game than Byfield most of of them......but your argument is going to be, they aren't #2 OA picks......

Buddy, you are the one who made this an issue by telling me to be "factual" over Oscar Moller playing 2 AHL playoff games following his season. But I can't say anything about you being wrong on Spence and Kaliyev being sent to the AHL from camp and spending over half a season there? You made the rules.

Yes, they aren't #2 picks, that is a big difference, you know, it's why the #2 pick has more value than the #15 one. Why are you comparing Byfield to Kempe a forward taken #29 or Harley a d-man taken in the middle of the 1st? I have asked you this a million times and you have never answered. How many #2 picks (elite elite prospects based on draft spot) played in the AHL? But since you won't answer, I'll do it for you.

Every Forward taken Top 3 in the draft in the last 15 years.

John Tavares - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Matt Duchene - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Taylor Hall - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Tyler Seguin - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
RNH - 18 AHL Games (Lockout year at 19) -fulltime NHL D+1
Landeskog - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Huberdeau - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+2
Yakupov - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL at D+1
Galchenyuk - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
MacKinnon - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Barkov - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Drouin - 19 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+2
Reinart - 3 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+2
Draistaitl - 6 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+2
McDavid - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Eichel - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Strome - 50 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+3
Matthews - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Laine - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
PLD - 0 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+2
Hischier - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Patrick - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Svechnikov - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Kotkaniemi - 13 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+1
Hughes - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Kaako - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Dach - 3 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+1
Lafreniere - 0 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+1
Stutzle - 0 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+1
Beniers - 0 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+2
MacTavish - 3 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+2
Slafkovsky - 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+1
Cooley- 0 AHL Games - fulltime NHL D+2
Bedard - 0 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+1
Carlsson - 0 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+1
Fantilli - 0 AHL Games- fulltime NHL D+1

36 total players

28 played ZERO AHL games (78%)
4 played less than 10 AHL games (11%)
3 played 10-20 AHL games (8%) - and being truthful RNH should be in the first group.
1 played 50+ AHL games (3%)

Which group does QB fall into, GBH?

But yeah, you're totally right, Byfield's development is completely traditional, every team in the league would have handled him the same. To say he was slow-cooked is totally incorrect.



Imagine claiming you are trying to win a Stanley Cup in a narrow window with players in their mid 30's in 11 and 8, ending up with an elite pick near the top of the draft, and then proceeding to slow cook the prospect like only 1 team (the Coyotes, no less) has done in the last 15 years. And then the next year draft a player who tore up every league and competition he has played in, but not bring him up because you are afraid he may be **TO GOOD** and it might effect your cap situation for **NEXT SEASON**

Another Master Class performance by Rob Blake and Luc Robitaille.

A bit off-topic is anyone concerned with the Kings meeting with Roy’s representatives? To me it is progression when you replace your soon to be $5 million defenseman with your up-and-coming best prospect that makes league minimum.


If BLUC for some reason wants to waste or limited contract space on Roy, does that make Spence a trade asset? I’ve heard people say they could trade Gavrikov and put Roy or one of the young puck movers on their off side, but Gavrikov also has a no trade clause.

Since we know, Kaliyev is no longer coming back, what does a Kaliyev and Spence tandem in a trade return us?

Some team has to jump at the chance of getting too young NHL quality players at a cheap price into their organization.

Any team looking to acquire them would probably be trying to get younger and looking to trade an older player that the Kings probably can't afford, especially if Roy is being re-signed.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm sorry, but how many pages have been spent about Yannetti lying about a comment about how the Kings always slow boiling players, when there are clearly exceptions?

It's like saying that Blake hasn't slow-boiled every prospect, because Laferriere has a handful of AHL games.

It can be true that the general attitude of the Lombardi era to slow boil... which we CAN confirm by Lombardi's quote of "you can never over prepare a player." But of course, exceptions happen.

Just because Yannetti didn't add every exception or qualifier doesn't make it a lie.

It's like saying every cup winner has a 1C, 1D, and star goalie. Is it suddenly a lie when we point to the Carolina Hurricanes?

Just my opinion, but I think we've far crossed the threshold of pedantry by insisting, in numerous pages, that it's an outright lie, instead of discussing how things might have changed over the years and why they've used slow boil more ridiculously in recent years.

But by all means carry on if this is "the big lie" that's so upsetting. Just thought I'd point out that this was a statement in a casual interview with a guy whose discussion points in a narrow time window are scattered, and there seems to be a bigger issue in the present that, rooted in history or not, still has many people wary of management going forward.

 

[FrozenKing18]

I think we should slow cook the posters here.

Anyone not here prior to 2010 should be sent down to the minors (LGK) until their logic and performance makes them worthy of a call up to the show.

I’m 5’8 and I keep getting minutes, i’m getting my ass kicked over here

 

[Herby]

I'm sorry, but how many pages have been spent about Yannetti lying about a comment about how the Kings always slow boiling players, when there are clearly exceptions?

It's like saying that Blake hasn't slow-boiled every prospect, because Laferriere has a handful of AHL games.

It can be true that the general attitude of the Lombardi era to slow boil... which we CAN confirm by Lombardi's quote of "you can never over prepare a player." But of course, exceptions happen.

Just because Yannetti didn't add every exception or qualifier doesn't make it a lie.

It's like saying every cup winner has a 1C, 1D, and star goalie. Is it suddenly a lie when we point to the Carolina Hurricanes?

Just my opinion, but I think we've far crossed the threshold of pedantry by insisting, in numerous pages, that it's an outright lie, instead of discussing how things might have changed over the years and why they've used slow boil more ridiculously in recent years.

But by all means carry on if this is "the big lie" that's so upsetting. Just thought I'd point out that this was a statement in a casual interview with a guy whose discussion points in a narrow time window are scattered, and there seems to be a bigger issue in the present that, rooted in history or not, still has many people wary of management going forward.

Well, I feel like the discussion has moved beyond Yannetti now. With that being said I'll address your points I think are off. It's more or less what you consider lying to be. I personally think it's a bit ridiculous to say a team that had as many players as those Kings teams did jump right into the NHL (especially from outside the Top 5) was slow-cooking in any way, especially when it comes in the context of defending your current boss. If someone told me that and I knew it factually wasn't true, I'd feel like I was being lied to or mislead, you feel differently, and that is fine. As far as the "changed over the years" line, if that had been how the question had been answered there is no issue from me, but that is not how it was answered, the answer was very cleary defending the current boss by trying to draw parallels between now and the past, when in reality it's hard to draw parallels between the ideology of this current Kings team on prospect development and ANY team past or present, not just the DL teams. I know you follow this closely, so surely you must know that this current Kings staff has ideas that are just simply not the norm anywhere else in the league when it comes to player development, especially of high-end pieces like QB and Clarke.

I mean, obviously it's brought up alot when these guys do media interviews, and that is because it's not exactly a secret, and these guys all answer it in their own way (Yannetti, Muzzin, Emerson). But the fact remains it's brought up and addressed for a reason, because it's just so much different than what we see around the league with most other teams. And it's not just people imagining is or making it up, they are way different than everybody else. I just wish more people answered it like Emerson did, which was more of an acknowledgement and defense of it, rather than trying to deflect it and say it's not different.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hey guys, just found a leak of the kings new primary logo for next year!

View attachment 880359

FAR too colorful for Luc

 

[Herby]

FAR too colorful for Luc

I actually like it more than the current logo.

 

[bland]

I'm sorry, but how many pages have been spent about Yannetti lying about a comment about how the Kings always slow boiling players, when there are clearly exceptions?

It's like saying that Blake hasn't slow-boiled every prospect, because Laferriere has a handful of AHL games.

It can be true that the general attitude of the Lombardi era to slow boil... which we CAN confirm by Lombardi's quote of "you can never over prepare a player." But of course, exceptions happen.

Just because Yannetti didn't add every exception or qualifier doesn't make it a lie.

It's like saying every cup winner has a 1C, 1D, and star goalie. Is it suddenly a lie when we point to the Carolina Hurricanes?

Just my opinion, but I think we've far crossed the threshold of pedantry by insisting, in numerous pages, that it's an outright lie, instead of discussing how things might have changed over the years and why they've used slow boil more ridiculously in recent years.

But by all means carry on if this is "the big lie" that's so upsetting. Just thought I'd point out that this was a statement in a casual interview with a guy whose discussion points in a narrow time window are scattered, and there seems to be a bigger issue in the present that, rooted in history or not, still has many people wary of management going forward.

All I can see are Herby's posts, and that's plenty.


Since GBH isn't a Hall of Fame level hockey internet message board poster such as ourselves, he isn't qualified to have his opinion considered.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Well, I feel like the discussion has moved beyond Yannetti now. With that being said, it's more or less what you consider lying to be. I personally think it's a bit ridiculous to say a team that had as many players as those Kings teams did jump right into the NHL (especially from outside the Top 5) was slow-cooking in any way, especially when it comes in the context of defending your current boss. If someone told me that and I knew it factually wasn't true, I'd feel like I was being lied to. You feel differently, and that is fine. As far as the "changed over the years" line, if that had been how the question had been answered there is no issue from me, but that is not how it was answered, the answer was very cleary defending the current boss by trying to draw parallels between now and the past.

GBH is now saying that Byfield, Turcotte and Clarke were handled just as they would have been by any team, so the discussion has turned to that. So the discussion has turned away from what they did 15 years ago, to what they are doing now. And even with guys like Emerson, Yannetti and Murray going on podcasts and saying "Yes we slow-cook everyone" and "we greatly value AHL development, more so than most teams might" we still have a certain poster here that is insisting that LA (in the current) doesn't slow-cook more than any other team. Which I think we can all agree is crazy, whether we disagree about the past.

NJ literally just handled Nemec the same way, Harley was handled by Dallas in the same way....

Why are we thinking Clarke would be handled differently anywhere else?

Byfield has 59 games in the AHL over 3-4 seasons, please god tell me how that is slow cooking him, let's just focus on him, how is 59 AHL games slow cooking??

 

[Johnny Utah]

Fans say Sutter never played the kids, yet he called Voynov, both King/Nolan and played Loktionov in a few playoff games.

When was the last time under TM or Hiller four kids got a look in the pre-season? It's basically one young player a year under this regime.

 

[Herby]

NJ literally just handled Nemec the same way, Harley was handled by Dallas in the same way....

Why are we thinking Clarke would be handled differently anywhere else?

Byfield has 59 games in the AHL over 3-4 seasons, please god tell me how that is slow cooking him, let's just focus on him, how is 59 AHL games slow cooking??

Oh look, Mr. Keep it Factual at it again.

Nemec just finished his age 19 season, in which he played 60 NHL games and 13 AHL games
Clarke just finished his age 20 season, in which he played 15 NHL games and 50 AHL games.

Nemec will end his age 20 season next year (barring health) with 140 NHL games of experience. Clarke ended his age 20 season this year with 25, but ya you're right. 140 and 25, no big deal, just splitting hairs, right?

That is "literally the same way" ? Do you understand what you are even typing? Good lord man, go to EP or hockeydb.com if your memory is this off.

Oh, and Nemec isn't even as good as Clarke, a player with legit 70 point upside from the blueline, if just given a chance.

And why is Byfield considered to have been slow-cooked? I don't know, because he played more games in the minors than all the other Top 2 picks combined in the last 19 years? Is that a good enough reason?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh look, Mr. Keep it Factual at it again.

Nemec just finished his age 19 season, in which he played 60 NHL games and 13 AHL games
Clarke just finished his age 20 season, in which he played 15 NHL games and 50 AHL games.

Nemec will end his age 20 season next year (barring health) with 140 NHL games of experience. Clarke ended his age 20 season this year with 25, but ya your right. 140 and 25, no big deal, just splitting hairs, right?

That is "literally the same way" ? Do you understand what you are even typing? Good lord man, go to EP or hockeydb.com if your memory is this off.

Oh, and Nemec isn't even as good as Clarke, a player with legit 70 point upside from the blueline, if just given a chance.

And why is Byfield considered to have been slow-cooked? I don't know, because he played more games in the minors than all the other Top 2 picks combined in the last 19 years? Is that a good enough reason?

No, actually it's not, it's idiotic reasoning, and you are much better than that....It's literally saying, #2 picks are all the same, same players, same development, same circumstances, so we should treat them all the same.....

59 AHL games over 3 years, is not slow cooking a player...in no way shape or form, I mean...seriously?

But ok, forget Nemec...how about Jiricek?

 

[King'sPawn]

Well, I feel like the discussion has moved beyond Yannetti now. With that being said, it's more or less what you consider lying to be. I personally think it's a bit ridiculous to say a team that had as many players as those Kings teams did jump right into the NHL (especially from outside the Top 5) was slow-cooking in any way, especially when it comes in the context of defending your current boss. If someone told me that and I knew it factually wasn't true, I'd feel like I was being lied to. You feel differently, and that is fine. As far as the "changed over the years" line, if that had been how the question had been answered there is no issue from me, but that is not how it was answered, the answer was very cleary defending the current boss by trying to draw parallels between now and the past.

I understand. I'm honestly only seeing your responses, but this has been an ongoing narrative for months. It's not just the past two pages.

I just think you're focusing too much on what seems to be a poor word choice to explain the general mentality of someone who's been with the org for 17 years now. I don't even blame the frustration - there's been plenty of gaslighting from the org. I just don't think Yannetti's response is a symptom of it.

Lombardi and Co did believe very strongly about saying you can't over-prepare a player. I think the difference is that Lombardi had a higher level of understanding and intelligence about how and when to give players opportunity. With Blake, it SEEMS to be more of "wait until we lose someone to injury. If you don't impress in your small sample size, you're not ready."

Just my opinion, of course. I'm a fan of Yannetti, so I admit I'm biased.

GBH is now saying that Byfield, Turcotte and Clarke were handled just as they would have been by any team, so the discussion has turned to that. So the discussion has turned away from what they did 15 years ago, to what they are doing now. And even with guys like Emerson, Yannetti and Murray going on podcasts and saying "Yes we slow-cook everyone" and "we greatly value AHL development, more so than most teams might" we still have a certain poster here that is insisting that LA (in the current) doesn't slow-cook more than any other team. Which I think we can all agree is crazy, whether we disagree about the past.

I appreciate the summary as I've only seen your side of the conversation. I agree with you that the decisions made with Byfield, Turcotte, and Clarke were unconventional. I'm not sure if you heard Yannetti in his recent interview with Hoven, but he also seems to concede the possibility players might have been better off with different decisions, instead of selling it as the best way.

All I can see are Herby's posts, and that's plenty.


Since GBH isn't a Hall of Fame level hockey internet message board poster such as ourselves, he isn't qualified to have his opinion considered.

I've ignored a few posters because they've either exhausted my patience to have a reasonable discussion multiple times or I know inherently there will never be a reasonable discussion (the latter is more for main board trolls). Even when you (or Herby) and I vehemently disagree we still all generally know where the line is and when to call the argument quits (even though RJ and I got carried away earlier, I still like to think I'm getting better).

Anyway, didn't want to ignore you. Wanted to respond but also extend my appreciation for all of you who can have a spirited discussion but at the end of the day have respect for people trying to have a conversation.