Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[Herby]

No, actually it's not, it's idiotic reasoning, and you are much better than that....It's literally saying, #2 picks are all the same, same players, same development, same circumstances, so we should treat them all the same.....

59 AHL games over 3 years, is not slow cooking a player...in no way shape or form, I mean...seriously?

But ok, forget Nemec...how about Jiricek?

GBH, if more AHL games than the previous forwards taken over him over an 18 year period (COMBINED!) does not constitute a slow-cook, what does? You follow the NHL, how are almost all of these players taken in the Top 2 handled?

Try for once to just answer a question truthfully and without cussing, as I will do shortly with Jiricek.

How has the typical player taken where QB is taken developed?
If more AHL games than the previous 18 combined isn't a slow-cook, then what would constitute a slow cook. Can you give us an example ofn a player taken as high as QB was that was handled in a way that you would consider a slowcook?

Jiricek is younger than Clarke, and has almost double the NHL games that Clarke has, despite not being close to as good as Clarke is. There is not a player in the league with Clarke's potential for stardom who has been handled this way. Clarke would be viewed as one of the elite up and coming offensive d-man, with probably 150 games of NHL experience had he been taken by a team that knows what it's doing. He is the most talented player the Kings had drafted in 13 years and has been completely screwed over with inexplicable development decisions, which sadly may be continuing if the Roy rumors are true.

 

[funky]

Any team looking to acquire them would probably be trying to get younger and looking to trade an older player that the Kings probably can't afford, especially if Roy is being re-signed.

So basically give our kids to a team like Boston for Ullmark would be a BLUC move.

Wait…….and sign him to an 8 year extension before he plays a game would be a BLUC thing to do.

 

[Herby]

So basically give our kids to a team like Boston for Ullmark would be a BLUC move.

Wait…….and sign him to an 8 year extension before he plays a game would be a BLUC thing to do.

We are living in a dark ages era of Kings hockey, one that amazingly rivals even an era when the team was run by a crook who couldn't make payroll and was sold to people with no cash to make payroll. If AEG had been bankrupt the team would be in better shape than it's in now.

 

[MonkeysUncle]

So basically give our kids to a team like Boston for Ullmark would be a BLUC move.

Wait…….and sign him to an 8 year extension before he plays a game would be a BLUC thing to do.

Well hopefully the rumor that he doesn't want to move out west is true.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

GBH, if more AHL games than the previous forwards taken over him over an 18 year period (COMBINED!) does not constitute a slow-cook, what does? You follow the NHL, how are almost all of these players taken in the Top 2 handled?

Try for once to just answer a question truthfully and without cussing, as I will do shortly with Jiricek.

How has the typical player taken where QB is taken developed?
If more AHL games than the previous 18 combined isn't a slow-cook, then what would constitute a slow cook. Can you give us an example ofn a player taken as high as QB was that was handled in a way that you would consider a slowcook?

Jiricek is younger than Clarke, and has almost double the NHL games that Clarke has, despite not being close to as good as Clarke is. There is not a player in the league with Clarke's potential for stardom who has been handled this way. Clarke would be viewed as one of the elite up and coming offensive d-man, with probably 150 games of NHL experience had he been taken by a team that knows what it's doing. He is the most talented player the Kings had drafted in 13 years and has been completely screwed over with inexplicable development decisions, which sadly may be continuing if the Roy rumors are true.

Again, you are trying to say that all #2 picks are the same, but you know as well as I do, that the world that Byfield was drafted in, and tried to develop in, was screwed up, when you had every league shut down except a few etc. In his draft year, there were two options, NHL or AHL, there was no OHL...and he wasn't even CLOSE to being ready for the NHL, so do you Oli Jokkinen him and screw him up really bad? Or do you play him in the AHL....that is the bulk of his AHL games, 32 in his first pro season, the 2 other stints, were conditioning stints....

So no, he wasn't slow cooked, he wasn't handled differently....

Shane Wright, #4OA, has played more AHL games than Byfield, is he being slow cooked?

 

[BigKing]

Lombardi was very much about a guy paying his dues but, IMO, they weren't going to send a guy down just to send him down if he showed out in rookie camp, training camp and pre-season.

Easy to do with Doughty. Clifford was a man child and brought an element that Lombardi coveted. Simmonds was similar.

Couple problems for Bluc:

1 - They aren't good at deviating from a plan and have the belief that it is best to get guys in to Ontario (California...not to confuse the Clarke situation further).
2 - Lombardi didn't bring guys in to block young guys during his rebuild while Bluc pulled the ripcord too soon (Danault and RV offseason). Is this a Bluc thing, a Doughy Pouty cry for help or, more-than-likely, AEG saying that everyone is salivating over this prospect pool so start trying to get us some revenue post-COVID?
3 - This one is entirely on them: where is the character + skill with the draft picks? Full credit to DL and staff for Simmonds and Clifford as they were not projected that high. King. Nolan in the last round. Hell...Deslauriers is still going strong. Feels like Blake didn't start trying to address this with his draft picks until Helenius, I suppose, in 2021. If that is the case, you are looking at the 2022-23 season as a best case scenario for contributing if they followed the Clifford/Simmonds path. Ziemmer was last season and then got hurt so he is most likely not getting here as quickly as needed either.

Blake bought too much into "New NHL" and a need to go opposite of Lombardi's old man, archaic thinking. Now, he probably thought he was getting that character guy in Turcotte but then he flubbed the development. Can Andre Lee be an NHL player? Maybe that can be his seventh round dart throw that actually hits and maybe some of these other big dudes he has taken in later rounds can become something but, man, his total list of draft picks so far is really rough to look at.

Pretty amazing that DL and his team nailed Nolan and Dowd in the same 7th round and then also hit on Roy in the 7th round as well. That's some lottery type stuff right there.

Apologies to my European friends, but Blake has leaned too heavily that way. Can argue DL didn't do it enough but Blake is too far into it. Can add what's his nuts that he got from the Rangers into that as well since he used a 2nd to trade for him.

 

[johnjm22]

Lombardi was very much about a guy paying his dues but, IMO, they weren't going to send a guy down just to send him down if he showed out in rookie camp, training camp and pre-season.

Easy to do with Doughty. Clifford was a man child and brought an element that Lombardi coveted. Simmonds was similar.

Couple problems for Bluc:

1 - They aren't good at deviating from a plan and have the belief that it is best to get guys in to Ontario (California...not to confuse the Clarke situation further).
2 - Lombardi didn't bring guys in to block young guys during his rebuild while Bluc pulled the ripcord too soon (Danault and RV offseason). Is this a Bluc thing, a Doughy Pouty cry for help or, more-than-likely, AEG saying that everyone is salivating over this prospect pool so start trying to get us some revenue post-COVID?
3 - This one is entirely on them: where is the character + skill with the draft picks? Full credit to DL and staff for Simmonds and Clifford as they were not projected that high. King. Nolan in the last round. Hell...Deslauriers is still going strong. Feels like Blake didn't start trying to address this with his draft picks until Helenius, I suppose, in 2021. If that is the case, you are looking at the 2022-23 season as a best case scenario for contributing if they followed the Clifford/Simmonds path. Ziemmer was last season and then got hurt so he is most likely not getting here as quickly as needed either.

Blake bought too much into "New NHL" and a need to go opposite of Lombardi's old man, archaic thinking. Now, he probably thought he was getting that character guy in Turcotte but then he flubbed the development. Can Andre Lee be an NHL player? Maybe that can be his seventh round dart throw that actually hits and maybe some of these other big dudes he has taken in later rounds can become something but, man, his total list of draft picks so far is really rough to look at.

Pretty amazing that DL and his team nailed Nolan and Dowd in the same 7th round and then also hit on Roy in the 7th round as well. That's some lottery type stuff right there.

Apologies to my European friends, but Blake has leaned too heavily that way. Can argue DL didn't do it enough but Blake is too far into it. Can add what's his nuts that he got from the Rangers into that as well since he used a 2nd to trade for him.

Lombardi often talked about getting better AND younger simultaneously. That doesn't even seem to be on Bluc's radar.

People forget that Lombardi also bought too much into the "new NHL" but he quickly realized his error and reversed course. That's a difficult thing to do as a manager.

 

[King'sPawn]

2 - Lombardi didn't bring guys in to block young guys during his rebuild while Bluc pulled the ripcord too soon (Danault and RV offseason). Is this a Bluc thing, a Doughy Pouty cry for help or, more-than-likely, AEG saying that everyone is salivating over this prospect pool so start trying to get us some revenue post-COVID?

For the most part I agree, but let's not forget part of the reason Bud Holloway went overseas is because Lombardi brought in Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter.

The difference being is Lombardi knew when to cut bait for the most part. That's how King and Nolan got their opportunity in 2012.

 

[chris kontos]

Bluc look to me they operate on the old boys network adage of "this is how it was for me, so bah gawd, this is how it will be for yu". Protecting thier knowledge and guarding thier experience with the absolute rejection of any other ideas or ways of doing things. Anything resembling a culture of growth and testing skill limitations is out of the question because " theguys we played under were assholes to us so it will be for y'all too".
Ive heard statements from luc very similar to this ignorant jive.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Yes, the NCAA has been good to the Kings. But despite the success, the Kings continue to try to get guys out of there as quickly as possible, because in their eyes, they are better off in the AHL and working with Muzz, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

That was what I was saying when everyone on this forum collectively lost their mind and cheered on the Turcotte signing after his freshman year when he had zero chance of playing in the NHL and was going to gain nothing from the AHL. I firmly believe that no team in the league (save *maybe* Winnipeg) would have made that pull. The NCAA, especially a factory program like Wisconsin, with top-notch facilities, good coaching, and good competition level, is a pretty damn good place for young players to develop. The Habs and Rangers saw that and have reaped the benefits of their UW 1st rounders, while the Kings saw things differently.

Faber and his representation team made a very good decision by choosing to return to the Gophers rather than sign with the Kings and spending a year in the AHL. Bob Motzko > Surfin Muzz & Marco Sturm

This is another reason why I am hoping that if the Kings don't trade their 1st for a goalie, that they draft a CHL player. As you know, I am usually pretty pro-NCAA because I think the 2-3 years and right to the NHL development path is ideal for NCAA 1st rounders, but that is just unlikely to happen in LA. The CHL agreement prevents the mistakes that Blake has made time and time again with European and NCAA prospects from happening. Going the CHL route is like putting a cone on Rob Blake so he doesn't bite his balls again like he did with Turcotte, Bjornfot, and Kupari and Helenius, who all played in the AHL before they should have.

Surf Nutz - Sturm < Bob Moskoballs

Bjo, Ku and Heli never earned it and Turc had multiple concussions.

But R B Blake spins the wheel of fate.

You are in your doghouse for the weekend Herpy!

yup, i've spent time on Kings message boards for 25+ years so can't accuse me of not trying but

there are exactly three people on my ignore list and I'm not convinced it's not all the same person

also, same person on twitter

I wouldn't presume to tell other people how to Internet but it's transparent as hell what the schtick has become

That explains a lot.

 

[Surf Nutz]

I think we should slow cook the posters here.

Anyone not here prior to 2010 should be sent down to the minors (LGK) until their logic and performance makes them worthy of a call up to the show.

Seems like call ups are in order as most of the long term posters, not all , have multiple concussions and can't get over post contcussion syndrome.

i demand a trade

Zelensky wants you!

Even Hellen Keller knows Clarke's defense was too big a liability.

Freaking ant farm!

Herby putting on cynic, I mean clinic, no, I mean, CYNIC!

 

[johnjm22]

Every time I see that clip of Blake talking about getting uncomfortable, I picture PLD lounging on a beach somewhere sipping a Piña Colada waiting for that 3M bonus to hit his bank account.

 

[King'sPawn]

Every time I see that clip of Blake talking about getting uncomfortable, I picture PLD lounging on a beach somewhere sipping a Piña Colada waiting for that 3M bonus to hit his bank account.

"Excuse me I asked for a CURLY STRAW!"

 

[KingsHockey24]

Realistically who are our starter options for next season?

Saros, Markstrom, Ullmark, Jarry, Anderson, Vejmelka, and Samsonov?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Every time I see that clip of Blake talking about getting uncomfortable, I picture PLD lounging on a beach somewhere sipping a Piña Colada waiting for that 3M bonus to hit his bank account.

can barely enjoy this perfect socal beach weather without my massive signing bonus

 

[Trash Panda]

Realistically who are our starter options for next season?

Saros, Markstrom, Ullmark, Jarry, Anderson, Vejmelka, and Samsonov?

Smart money is to roll with Rittich and Portillo to start, and hopefully pick up a goalie on the cheap during the season.

 

[Sol]

Portillo gonna get cooked like a thanksgiving turkey in the NHL.

 

[MonkeysUncle]

Smart money is to roll with Rittich and Portillo to start, and hopefully pick up a goalie on the cheap during the season.

Stolarz or Samsonov​

 

[johnjm22]

If the Kings are playing solid team defense, Portillo will do fine.

You try and acquire a #1 goalie, let Rittich and Portillo battle for the #2 spot in camp. Loser goes to Ontario.

 

[Choralone]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1798780111678013798

Who called this shit? Was it KINGS17? I'm surprised we didn't hire Tom Webster or Larry Robinson as our coach. Luc and Blake are actually Bill and Ted.

 

[Herby]

I understand. I'm honestly only seeing your responses, but this has been an ongoing narrative for months. It's not just the past two pages.

I just think you're focusing too much on what seems to be a poor word choice to explain the general mentality of someone who's been with the org for 17 years now. I don't even blame the frustration - there's been plenty of gaslighting from the org. I just don't think Yannetti's response is a symptom of it.

Lombardi and Co did believe very strongly about saying you can't over-prepare a player. I think the difference is that Lombardi had a higher level of understanding and intelligence about how and when to give players opportunity. With Blake, it SEEMS to be more of "wait until we lose someone to injury. If you don't impress in your small sample size, you're not ready."

Just my opinion, of course. I'm a fan of Yannetti, so I admit I'm biased.

I appreciate the summary as I've only seen your side of the conversation. I agree with you that the decisions made with Byfield, Turcotte, and Clarke were unconventional. I'm not sure if you heard Yannetti in his recent interview with Hoven, but he also seems to concede the possibility players might have been better off with different decisions, instead of selling it as the best way.


I've ignored a few posters because they've either exhausted my patience to have a reasonable discussion multiple times or I know inherently there will never be a reasonable discussion (the latter is more for main board trolls). Even when you (or Herby) and I vehemently disagree we still all generally know where the line is and when to call the argument quits (even though RJ and I got carried away earlier, I still like to think I'm getting better).

Anyway, didn't want to ignore you. Wanted to respond but also extend my appreciation for all of you who can have a spirited discussion but at the end of the day have respect for people trying to have a conversation.

Thanks for your response.

The problem is, we always get these little subtle acknowledgements that huge mistakes were made in development, these mistakes have done anything from slowed development, to outright driven it off the cliff. The issue is the same mistakes continue to be made year after year after year. And I know these mistakes are not on Yannetti and the blame falls on Blake, Emerson and Murray, but simply admitting mistakes after the fact doesn't matter when no changes are ever made and the mistakes keep happening.

That is why I am 100% on board with drafting a CHL player, because these guys just can't be trusted to let traditional development paths take place. Whether that is letting players play two years in college, letting guys develop further in Europe, or letting higher-end talents like Clarke and Byfield develop at the NHL level like everyone else does.

Byfield
Turcotte
Clarke
Bjornfot
Kupari
Helenius

All players taken in 1-2 rounds, all played to many AHL games and should have been elsewhere. It's like groundhog day.

Do you remember the discussions at this time last year about Clarke? I mean by summer 2023 we already knew that huge mistakes were made with Turcotte, Kupari and Bjornfot. The general consensus here, and as reported by a lot of people was that Clarke was in line to have an NHL spot. There was some justified skepticism here that the Kings would do what they always do, but many people (myself included) thought he was just go good to send down, and then poof, he's gone, down to the minors, a situation that I truly don't think would have happened anywhere else in the NHL. Nothing against Jordan Spence, but to use another sports team in town as an example, that was breaking camp with Tyrod Taylor starting over Justin Herbert. But Spence had already "paid his dues" and Clarke hadn't.

So even when they acknowledge the mistakes, they still make them. And this one especially hurts because unlike Bjornfot, Turcotte and Kupari, this is a guy who not only was going to help you now, but has a chance to be an all-star caliber player, perhaps even within his ELC years.

NJ somehow will end up with Nemec and Hughes both being NHL regulars at 19/20, but Clarke has 25 games after his age 20 season, it's just sad.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

I thought this was an interesting take on Not signing Roy to an extension. I'd maybe bridge him if possible for 2 -3 years so Clarke can develop. I don't want to lose Clarke because of Roy. We're gonna get overloaded at some point and need to look a little more forward. As it stands right now, we're not winning the Cup next year so make some positioning moves now.

"Frankly, they can't even get close to that. I've seen some people float around the idea that he should be re-signed if the Kings can get him down to $5 million and I disagree.

Refusing to trust younger players has put the Kings in the position they're in now, a middling team that can make the playoffs and get knocked out early.

Doubling down on that method, re-signing Roy at the cost of Jordan Spence and Brandt Clarke's future is foolish.

You aren't re-signing Roy to be a third-pair defenseman at any point, meaning you're relegating Clarke to a third-pair role or a move to the left during Roy's contract.

Or you're paying a third-pair Roy $5+ million a year, neither of which are viable options."

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/los-angeles-kings/latest-news/los-angeles-kings-shouldnt-entertain-re-signing-matt-roy

 

[johnjm22]

Re-signing Roy only makes sense if you're trading Doughty.

 

[Herby]

I thought this was an interesting take on Not signing Roy to an extension. I'd maybe bridge him if possible for 2 -3 years so Clarke can develop. I don't want to lose Clarke because of Roy. We're gonna get overloaded at some point and need to look a little more forward. As it stands right now, we're not winning the Cup next year so make some positioning moves now.

"Frankly, they can't even get close to that. I've seen some people float around the idea that he should be re-signed if the Kings can get him down to $5 million and I disagree.

Refusing to trust younger players has put the Kings in the position they're in now, a middling team that can make the playoffs and get knocked out early.

Doubling down on that method, re-signing Roy at the cost of Jordan Spence and Brandt Clarke's future is foolish.

You aren't re-signing Roy to be a third-pair defenseman at any point, meaning you're relegating Clarke to a third-pair role or a move to the left during Roy's contract.

Or you're paying a third-pair Roy $5+ million a year, neither of which are viable options."

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/los-angeles-kings/latest-news/los-angeles-kings-shouldnt-entertain-re-signing-matt-roy

Your mistake is expecting that this team under Blake/Robitaille is ever going to follow the consensus, we should know by now they don't operate that way, they don't care what has worked elsewhere, these are the smartest men in the room. In most places Roy probably would have been **TRADED** a year ago to make room for a talent like Clarke and to free up cap space in other areas, not only was he not traded and Clarke toiled in the minors, they are now entertaining bringing him back on a multi-year extension, which would relegate Clarke to a limited role for the life of his ELC and likely mean that Jordan Spence is shown the door.

Re-signing Roy only makes sense if you're trading Doughty.

Doughty being traded has about as much a chance of happening as GBH and Axl admitting that Blake has made any mistakes.

 

[KINGS17]

To be fair, Hickey was an unexpected off-the-board pick in a weak draft and the Kings took him because he may not have been available when they picked again in the second round. No one thought he was a top prospect. Clarke is a different situation.

Yeah, Dean swung at a pitch in the dirt on the Hickey pick. He knew he needed a puck-moving defenseman. Fortunately, he was in a position to draft Doughty right after that.