Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

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kingsboy11

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You are making the same judgements that GBH is. Nobody is saying that the Kings moved everybody quickly through without AHL time, that is not the point of dispute. The facts are that when the Kings had players good enough to play on the NHL roster, they put them there, which is not the case with this team under Rob Blake, in fact it's not even close, and this with a Kings team that has been anywhere from garbage to middling in every season Blake has been GM, which wasn't the case with the previous teams. If a player was good enough for the NHL roster they made the team, whether they were a teenager or not, whether they had "paid their dues" and "learned the system" or not. There was no "Only the McDavid's of the world make the league without AHL time" which is now the belief of the organization. A couple of years ago GBH claimed that the Kings didn't use their AHL affiliate more than other teams for 1/2 round picks, so I went through and just researched it, and guess what the numbers showed? GBH then tilted to his usual predictable, "There are plenty of ways to develop prospects" (as he defends a management team that only develops prospects one way). Of course never acknowledging that he was wrong or apologizing for saying I was making things up.

Nobody is saying every prospect should play in the NHL without AHL time, just that AHL usage should not be a requirement for every high end prospect that a team drafts and develops. It doesn't happen that way around the league, and the rest of the league has done a better job developing youth than Rob Blake has done in LA.

Do you think the Kings under DL put Clarke and Byfield in the AHL? I don't, I think they do what other teams have consistently done with similar players. Byfield would have been in the league at 18 and Clarke either makes the team at 19, or at the very least is an NHL'er at 20, no way on Earth does he spend a full season in the minors, these are examples of why it's dishonest to say the teams developed similarly. Could you imagine a Clifford, Moller, Simmonds or Johnson happening with the Kings now? Come on.

As RJ said, do you think it's normal for 1/2 round picks to reach waiver age without either being moved or integrated into the lineup? How often did that happen under "slow-cook" Lombardi. Thomas Hickey? How often has it happened under Blake? How can you possibly sit here and say it's comparable. Bjornfot lost to waivers, JAD lost to waivers. Kaiyev, Thomas, Turcotte all without defined roles up against waivers after D+5 or D+6. These are 1/2 round picks, including a Top 5 pick that have been slowcooked so long the smoker ran out of wood. This is not a normal way to develop youth, it isn't in the 2020's and it wasn't in the 2000's and 2010's.

Part of the reason why the Kings stopped putting players into the NHL so quickly was because they just stopped drafting good players, and yes also because they became contenders. But even as a contender, Tyler Toffoli (2nd round pick) was in the lineup for the Kings in the 2013 playoffs in his age 20 season when the Kings had the 2nd best team in the NHL, that is more than can be said for Brandt Clarke who despite being a Top 10 pick and playing at a much higher level in the AHL was not in the lineup for the a middling cannon fodder Kings playoff team. You think if others were in charge in this organization that Clarke would have been handled the same?

Just out of curiosity, in your opinion how many of the players who played 0 AHL games under DL would have also played 0 AHL games under Blake? Sure, if you want to debate Doughty and Kopitar sure, but really think Rob Blake, Nelson Emerson and Surf Nutz would have been ok with Simmonds, Johnson, Moller, Schenn in the NHL at 19 or 20? Come on, and that point alone is why his comments are dishonest.

I had a big long response to this, but I'll just go through the stuff I agree or disagree with.

You are making the same judgements that GBH is.
I'm not. He has his opinions, I have mine. I don't share his opinions on a lot things.

The facts are that when the Kings had players good enough to play on the NHL roster, they put them there, which is not the case with this team under Rob Blake, in fact it's not even close, and this with a Kings team that has been anywhere from garbage to middling in every season Blake has been GM, which wasn't the case with the previous teams.
I agree
There was no "Only the McDavid's of the world make the league without AHL time" which is now the belief of the organization
This was probably a hyperbole statement, but yes I agree.
Nobody is saying every prospect should play in the NHL without AHL time, just that AHL usage should not be a requirement for every high end prospect that a team drafts and develops. It doesn't happen that way around the league, and the rest of the league has done a better job developing youth than Rob Blake has done in LA.
I AGREE. I never said otherwise
Do you think the Kings under DL put Clarke and Byfield in the AHL?
Nope. I think if the Kings didn't trade for Richards in 2011, I think Brayden Schenn would've made the team full time that season. I don't think Clarke or Byfield would've been handled any different to Schenn.

Could you imagine a Clifford, Moller, Simmonds or Johnson happening with the Kings now? Come on.
Of course not. Once Doughty was bitching about not winning, Blake decided the rebuild was over.

As RJ said, do you think it's normal for 1/2 round picks to reach waiver age without either being moved or integrated into the lineup? How often did that happen under "slow-cook" Lombardi. Thomas Hickey? How often has it happened under Blake? How can you possibly sit here and say it's comparable. Bjornfot lost to waivers, JAD lost to waivers. Kaiyev, Thomas, Turcotte all without defined roles up against waivers after D+5 or D+6. These are 1/2 round picks, including a Top 5 pick that have been slowcooked so long the smoker ran out of wood. This is not a normal way to develop youth, it isn't in the 2020's and it wasn't in the 2000's and 2010's.
Yes I AGREE its not normal. I never said otherwise.
Part of the reason why the Kings stopped putting players into the NHL so quickly was because they just stopped drafting good players, and yes also because they became contenders. But even as a contender, Tyler Toffoli (2nd round pick) was in the lineup for the Kings in the 2013 playoffs in his age 20 season when the Kings had the 2nd best team in the NHL, that is more than can be said for Brandt Clarke who despite being a Top 10 pick and playing at a much higher level in the AHL was not in the lineup for the a middling cannon fodder Kings playoff team.
Yes and its f***ing infuriating. I think the success of Toffoli has actually harmed their development strategy or at least how they integrate players.
You think if others were in charge in this organization that Clarke would have been handled the same?
Of course not.
Just out of curiosity, in your opinion how many of the players who played 0 AHL games under DL would have also played 0 AHL games under Blake? Sure, if you want to debate Doughty and Kopitar sure, but really think Rob Blake, Nelson Emerson and Surf Nutz would have been ok with Simmonds, Johnson, Moller, Schenn in the NHL at 19 or 20? Come on, and that point alone is why his comments are dishonest.
You didn't mention him, but I think Clifford possibly might have. With how everyone talks about Clifford, I think he would've made the NHL pretty quick. The other's? LOL no way in hell. The only thing that I disagree with, and the only thing I've disagreed with, is that I don't think he's being dishonest. That's how you interpret it, I interpret it a different way. Nothing wrong with that.

Ultimately I don't agree with the current development and integration philosophy. I think once Bluc decided they were tired of losing instead of sticking to plan is what got us into the current mess that we're in and probably set us back 5 years if not more.
 
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JJDrums

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Oct 27, 2015
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After watching the first 3 rounds of the playoffs and seeing the last two teams standing ... it is painfully obvious that the Kings are absolutely no where near contending ... in fact, it is an absolute joke when ya look at the roster composition of the Kings compared with the two finalists.
 

Master Yoda

LA Legends
Aug 6, 2003
1,486
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El Paso

Who called this shit? Was it KINGS17? I'm surprised we didn't hire Tom Webster or Larry Robinson as our coach. Luc and Blake are actually Bill and Ted.
I remember when people on this board suggested kings change the primary logo/jersey to the new reverse retros and a certain team employee said it's not easy or simple to make this kind of a change. While that still may be true, the fact of the matter is Luc is colorblind and just likes the silver/black.
 

King'sPawn

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Jul 1, 2003
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Thanks for your response.

The problem is, we always get these little subtle acknowledgements that huge mistakes were made in development, these mistakes have done anything from slowed development, to outright driven it off the cliff. The issue is the same mistakes continue to be made year after year after year. And I know these mistakes are not on Yannetti and the blame falls on Blake, Emerson and Murray, but simply admitting mistakes after the fact doesn't matter when no changes are ever made and the mistakes keep happening.

That is why I am 100% on board with drafting a CHL player, because these guys just can't be trusted to let traditional development paths take place. Whether that is letting players play two years in college, letting guys develop further in Europe, or letting higher-end talents like Clarke and Byfield develop at the NHL level like everyone else does.

Byfield
Turcotte
Clarke
Bjornfot
Kupari
Helenius

All players taken in 1-2 rounds, all played to many AHL games and should have been elsewhere. It's like groundhog day.

Do you remember the discussions at this time last year about Clarke? I mean by summer 2023 we already knew that huge mistakes were made with Turcotte, Kupari and Bjornfot. The general consensus here, and as reported by a lot of people was that Clarke was in line to have an NHL spot. There was some justified skepticism here that the Kings would do what they always do, but many people (myself included) thought he was just go good to send down, and then poof, he's gone, down to the minors, a situation that I truly don't think would have happened anywhere else in the NHL. Nothing against Jordan Spence, but to use another sports team in town as an example, that was breaking camp with Tyrod Taylor starting over Justin Herbert. But Spence had already "paid his dues" and Clarke hadn't.

So even when they acknowledge the mistakes, they still make them. And this one especially hurts because unlike Bjornfot, Turcotte and Kupari, this is a guy who not only was going to help you now, but has a chance to be an all-star caliber player, perhaps even within his ELC years.

NJ somehow will end up with Nemec and Hughes both being NHL regulars at 19/20, but Clarke has 25 games after his age 20 season, it's just sad.
I agree with most of this, particularly the misuse of Clarke.

What I do disagree with (and sorry if I'm misunderstanding) is the indicator that you want the Kings only to draft CHL players. Even when they have a straightforward development path, they couldn't help themselves with Clarke.

I'm just at the point where I hope management gets its act together or it gets replaced ASAP. If either happens, it doesn't matter where they draft from.
 

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
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I agree with most of this, particularly the misuse of Clarke.

What I do disagree with (and sorry if I'm misunderstanding) is the indicator that you want the Kings only to draft CHL players. Even when they have a straightforward development path, they couldn't help themselves with Clarke.

I'm just at the point where I hope management gets its act together or it gets replaced ASAP. If either happens, it doesn't matter where they draft from.

I say that about CHL players because I don't think they will be drafting a player of Clarke's caliber where they will be picking in this years draft. Despite what certain people here say about 1st round picks all being similar (comparing #2 to #29 for example), I'm sure you would agree there is a fall-off as you go down the board. At #21 it's very likely that if they take a CHL player he is going to need the two years in junior and then some AHL time, which protects the Kings from more self-inflicted wounds like we saw with Turcotte, Kupari, Bjornfot and others. Where as if you take a guy like Michael Hage, there is no barrier (other than the player saying no) to stop Blake from saying next Spring "Let's get this guy signed and into the AHL, he will be better off with Marco and Muzz than with Brandon Naurato." and boom, it's Turcotte 2.0.

You can substitute Hage with any player from the NCAA or Europe, it's the same case.

I've said this a million times and since a certain couple of people (not you) continue to twist my comments, I'll say it again.

***I don't believe that the Kings should never send players to the AHL, even 1st rounders***

I just think that the results clearly show that the NCAA and Europe are much better development paths for teenagers, and that high-end players like Clarke and Byfield who are good enough to do some development in the NHL should be allowed to do that.
 
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Papa Mocha 15

I love the smell of ice in the morning.
Nov 27, 2008
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Your mistake is expecting that this team under Blake/Robitaille is ever going to follow the consensus, we should know by now they don't operate that way, they don't care what has worked elsewhere, these are the smartest men in the room. In most places Roy probably would have been **TRADED** a year ago to make room for a talent like Clarke and to free up cap space in other areas, not only was he not traded and Clarke toiled in the minors, they are now entertaining bringing him back on a multi-year extension, which would relegate Clarke to a limited role for the life of his ELC and likely mean that Jordan Spence is shown the door.



Doughty being traded has about as much a chance of happening as GBH and Axl admitting that Blake has made any mistakes.
Yup, I was thinking the best way to sing Roy was to move out Doughty. I love DD and named my kid Drew; but call a spade a spade. I'd move DD in a heartbeat for picks or an upgrade in goal and move Roy up and let the pieces move up accordingly. This is going to be a bridge year for us anyway so no harm no foul. Not gonna happen with what we have in management, but they did trade Quick so....... who knows what they'll do. If they're not gonna move out DD, then move out Roy for something.
 

Surf Nutz

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We are living in a dark ages era of Kings hockey, one that amazingly rivals even an era when the team was run by a crook who couldn't make payroll and was sold to people with no cash to make payroll. If AEG had been bankrupt the team would be in better shape than it's in now.

So getting Gretzky and making the playoffs is the dark ages?

What about all the seasons we didn't even make the playoffs.

You are ranting again Hervy.

Sorry you have to go back on ignore, I am skimming through your comments.anyway.

Let's draft players with our developmental staff in mind LMAO
 
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MOGlLNY

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Jan 5, 2008
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Hi guys just curious as to what you value Danault at and is he pretty much a no go trade wise?

Sabres are almost certainly on his NMC list but I'm curious as to how you're viewing him. I'm sure the team is looking for changes (moreso on the GM front maybe less than the roster front)
 

Surf Nutz

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Hi guys just curious as to what you value Danault at and is he pretty much a no go trade wise?

Sabres are almost certainly on his NMC list but I'm curious as to how you're viewing him. I'm sure the team is looking for changes (moreso on the GM front maybe less than the roster front)

These guys have blurred vision through their deluge of rage tears.

Danault is the most underrated player on the Kings, some guys here actually suggest trading him.

This would likely result in the Kings probably not even making the playoffs.

No way Blake would do it but Blake's contract ends in the off season.
 
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MOGlLNY

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Jan 5, 2008
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These guys have blurred vision through their deluge of rage tears.

Danault is the most underrated player on the Kings, some guys here actually suggest trading him.

This would likely result in the Kings probably not even making the playoffs.

No way Blake would do it but his contract ends in the off season.
He seems pretty much ideal for what the Sabres need in terms of a matchup center behind Thompson and Cozens. 3 years left that may make things tight for us in a couple years cap wise but can probably squeeze ourselves out of it.

Totally figuring the Kings aren't interested in trading him based on where they're at and they aren't looking for what the Sabres may have to offer.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face and what not.
 
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Herby

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Feb 27, 2002
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So getting Gretzky and making the playoffs is the dark ages?

What about all the seasons we didn't even make the playoffs.

You are ranting again Hervy.

Sorry you have to go back on ignore, I am skimming through your comments.anyway.

Let's draft players with our developmental staff in mind LMAO

Bruce McNall stopped being able to make payroll in 1994, the Kings were then sold to a group that also did not have the capital on hand to own an NHL team in 94/95. This happened during a period where the Kings did not win a single playoff **game** for 7 straight seasons, missing outright for 5 of those 7 seasons. I know you were busy playing in Boston and Pittsburgh for a lot of that time, but that is what happened, they were not "making the playoffs"

And oh darn, you are ignoring me, how I will miss getting 10 notifications laughing all my posts, it will be tough to not have that, but I'll try my best to go on.
 
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Surf Nutz

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He seems pretty much ideal for what the Sabres need in terms of a matchup center behind Thompson and Cozens. 3 years left that may make things tight for us in a couple years cap wise but can probably squeeze ourselves out of it.

Totally figuring the Kings aren't interested in trading him based on where they're at and they aren't looking for what the Sabres may have to offer.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face and what not.

I mean he is an ideal 2,3 center vs opposing top line for most teams in the league and if your PP is thin he can C unit 2.

Look at the Kings PK this year an the statistics of Moore to see what else he does.

He is also a leader that takes young players under his wings.

Danault is a sneaky good and way underrated player.

Like Kevin Fiala, a very good acquisiton,
 

tny760

Registered User
Mar 12, 2017
20,191
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Hi guys just curious as to what you value Danault at and is he pretty much a no go trade wise?

Sabres are almost certainly on his NMC list but I'm curious as to how you're viewing him. I'm sure the team is looking for changes (moreso on the GM front maybe less than the roster front)
i think his value per dollar is very high and especially given PLD flatlining he's probably not a trade candidate unless the team implodes next season
 

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
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Listening to the interview with Yannetti.

Hoven: "The 2019 draft is going to prove to be very fruitful for the Kings"

::20 minutes later::

Hoven: "What happened to Bjornfot and Kaliyev"

Just imagine the night of the 2019 draft if someone told you in 5 years.

- The Top5 pick center will have 1 career goal after 5 years in the organization, wasn't on the roster for the 2024 playoffs, is now playing wing and projects as a bottom six player

- The other first rounder will be waived and lost for nothing

- The guy we took at the top of the 2nd round was not in the lineup for the playoffs, and is about to be traded

- The other second round pick was not in the lineup for the playoffs and was already lost once to waivers

- A bottom pairing defender in the 4th round.

Just how is that a fruitful draft? Good lord that has to be one of the worst takes ever made on that show, and that is really saying something. You would think Jordan Spence is Cale Makar or something. Ending up with a bottom six winger, a 3rd pairing defender, a winger you couldn't integrate into the lineup, a AAAA defenseman lost to waivers, a AAAA forward and whatever Andre Lee turns into is anything but a fruitful draft when you had that many great picks, including a Top 5.

They touched on this talking about the 2018 draft and what is an acceptable result for a draft, and I agreed with what he said about 2-3 guys as the expectation. In an average draft where you are picking 20, 52, 84, 117 it's ok to end up with a couple of maybe lesser pieces, and the 2-3 players per draft thing is fine. When you have 5, 22, 33, 50 the expectation has to be that you end up with a top of the lineup guy, and probably a respectable secondary piece too. The Kings just came nowhere close to that with 2019. And in fairness to Yannetti I don't think any of the 2019 draft is the blame of him and his staff. They wanted a guy who's had multiple 60 point seasons (at 20 and 21) and you can't blame him for how poorly management handled all those guys.

Agreed with most of what Yannetti said in this interview. You can tell he really likes Clarke a lot, as he should, he's a special talent. Although I think he's quite optimistic on Jack Hughes, especially when he was throwing dirt on Helge Grans. I would say it's very unlikely that either guy has much of an NHL career.
 
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KingsHockey24

Registered User
Aug 1, 2013
14,505
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Hi guys just curious as to what you value Danault at and is he pretty much a no go trade wise?

Sabres are almost certainly on his NMC list but I'm curious as to how you're viewing him. I'm sure the team is looking for changes (moreso on the GM front maybe less than the roster front)
Danault and Kaliyev for Byram and Greenway.

Ya'll don't need 3 elite LHD's. It's not fair.
 

MonkeysUncle

Registered User
May 31, 2024
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I agree with most of this, particularly the misuse of Clarke.

What I do disagree with (and sorry if I'm misunderstanding) is the indicator that you want the Kings only to draft CHL players. Even when they have a straightforward development path, they couldn't help themselves with Clarke.

I'm just at the point where I hope management gets its act together or it gets replaced ASAP. If either happens, it doesn't matter where they draft from.
I think enough time has gone by now to know that Management is not going to alter the way they do things or change there organizational philosophy. They should have tweaked the development staff and brought in people that dont have ties to Kings with fresh ideas.The only way things are gonna change is if Luc and Blake are gone. There needs to be someone who has been in a winning organization with completely approach and philosophy.
Luc should be so thankful that he was not drafted by this management group and develop by this staff, he would have ended up just like Kaliyev or Fagemo.
 
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Surf Nutz

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Your unrelenting worship of Blake seems to do enough to discredit any of your opinions

I have supported Blake's good moves (Fiala, Danault, etc.) and called out his poor ones (coaching, PLD etc).

I am not heavily one sided like you and your Grandpa Herby.
 
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King'sPawn

Enjoy the chaos
Jul 1, 2003
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Hi guys just curious as to what you value Danault at and is he pretty much a no go trade wise?

Sabres are almost certainly on his NMC list but I'm curious as to how you're viewing him. I'm sure the team is looking for changes (moreso on the GM front maybe less than the roster front)
Very good defensive, checking forward. Players who are on his line generally play better with him than away from him. Biggest issue is offensive consistency - his line can disappear for weeks at a time. But when on, him and Trevor Moore are beastly.

Not sure if management has any interest in trading him, considering they're tripling down as far as going for it in the playoffs. If the Kings did trade him, I'd be disappointed if they got less than a late first, or a high second +. But I also suck at gauging value.
 
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Surf Nutz

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Show me your posts criticizing Blake

Kinda watching the Stanley Cup Final but I recently posted about Blake backing himself into a corner with the PLD contract and having no space to make

deadline moves, a go to for most cup winners. I think even Schmooley liked it , proving to me he can be unbiased.

Anyways I notice you kinda check out recently and a break is good and I took one too.

Just please make sure Grandpa gets his meds, he has been on a ranting bender.
 

kingsfan28

Its A Kingspiracy !
Feb 27, 2005
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Listening to the interview with Yannetti.

Hoven: "The 2019 draft is going to prove to be very fruitful for the Kings"

::20 minutes later::

Hoven: "What happened to Bjornfot and Kaliyev"

Just imagine the night of the 2019 draft if someone told you in 5 years.

- The Top5 pick center will have 1 career goal after 5 years in the organization, wasn't on the roster for the 2024 playoffs, is now playing wing and projects as a bottom six player

- The other first rounder will be waived and lost for nothing

- The guy we took at the top of the 2nd round was not in the lineup for the playoffs, and is about to be traded

- The other second round pick was not in the lineup for the playoffs and was already lost once to waivers

- A bottom pairing defender in the 4th round.

Just how is that a fruitful draft? Good lord that has to be one of the worst takes ever made on that show, and that is really saying something. You would think Jordan Spence is Cale Makar or something. Ending up with a bottom six winger, a 3rd pairing defender, a winger you couldn't integrate into the lineup, a AAAA defenseman lost to waivers, a AAAA forward and whatever Andre Lee turns into is anything but a fruitful draft when you had that many great picks, including a Top 5.

They touched on this talking about the 2018 draft and what is an acceptable result for a draft, and I agreed with what he said about 2-3 guys as the expectation. In an average draft where you are picking 20, 52, 84, 117 it's ok to end up with a couple of maybe lesser pieces, and the 2-3 players per draft thing is fine. When you have 5, 22, 33, 50 the expectation has to be that you end up with a top of the lineup guy, and probably a respectable secondary piece too. The Kings just came nowhere close to that with 2019. And in fairness to Yannetti I don't think any of the 2019 draft is the blame of him and his staff. They wanted a guy who's had multiple 60 point seasons (at 20 and 21) and you can't blame him for how poorly management handled all those guys.

Agreed with most of what Yannetti said in this interview. You can tell he really likes Clarke a lot, as he should, he's a special talent. Although I think he's quite optimistic on Jack Hughes, especially when he was throwing dirt on Helge Grans. I would say it's very unlikely that either guy has much of an NHL career.

It was a good draft on paper, then...🤦 🤷‍♂️
 
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