Fire Ken Holland: 2022-2023 edition

[Soundwave]

It wss chia that drafted Bouchard, nit Holland. And Bouchard seems like giod pick, has a hell of a shot too.
He just isnt a defensive minded D.... bad enough.

Hollands picks is Broberg, Holloway, Borg, Schaefer.
Broberg is +4 years after his draft. He may not be a bust, but its pretty awdul for a top 10 pick being still to raw. Just admit Holland, you drafted wrong.
Holloway shouldnt be that lost, acording to me. At least a 3rd liner. And Chias picks in yamamoto and pulju looks average at best, beaten out of other teams 3rd liners.
Trade them aaaaaallll.....
Like...

I would gladly put Yamamoto, pulju (having trade value) , Broberg, Holloway for win- now trades.
We waited to long on Jesse, we waited to long on Broberg, we waited to long on Bear. Trade while still having value.

Broberg+Yamamoto+ 1st for Gavrikov
Puljujärvi +Holloway + 2nd for Gourde

Nurse Ceci
Gavrikov Barrie
Kulak Bouchard

Nuge McDavid Hyman
Kane Draisaitl Gourde
Järnmark MacLeod Kostin
Fogele Ryan Shore

Is better than what they iced.

Xavier Bourgault is another one ... only 0.5 ppg in the AHL thus far ... not exactly lighting it up. Has 3 goals and I believe two were on the PK, so 1 goal at even strength?

Bouchard is a decent player who'll probably have some high scoring seasons, but he's also a low intensity guy who isn't likely to ever be a great defender.

One wonders if the Oilers would've simply been better off trading most of the these picks for proven NHL talent.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Xavier Bourgault is another one ... only 0.5 ppg in the AHL thus far ... not exactly lighting it up. Has 3 goals and I believe two were on the PK, so 1 goal at even strength?

Bouchard is a decent player who'll probably have some high scoring seasons, but he's also a low intensity guy who isn't likely to ever be a great defender.

One wonders if the Oilers would've simply been better off trading most of the these picks for proven NHL talent.

The actual correct way for an aspiring contender to use high draft picks is to pick the BPA every time, let them develop to above draft slot value, and swing them in a trade for immediate help. ie. Wyatt Johnston probably is closer to like 10th overall in draft pick value than his original 23rd overall. The problem is we have by far the biggest fraud in NHL history as our GM and he wasn't able to poach any of the people that carried him to success in the first place like Hakan Andersson. So we're just stuck with a clueless baboon so busy caring about Josh Archibald's feelings and promising him playtime that we have no time to assemble an actual NHL caliber roster.

 

[Louis Cypher]

What it takes.

Holloway, Broberg, Petrov, 2023 1st and 2nd.

Puljujärvi + Broberg for Gourde

Yamamoto for a 3rd 2023

that 3rd + 2023 2nd for Scouy

I think XB is the one to hold on to.
Still waiting on Holloway.
I dont know why he isnt performing

You're insane.

 

[SnipeShowJB11]

Very disappointing, like another poster said, that there is no improvement in D or the bottom six after this long.

Like, what are we even doing here? Start going for it with your first rounders and let a top prospect or two go for this timeline or you might as well just start over.

None of this in the middle sh** Canucks style

Give me a well balanced team who can score and play D instead of a top a** heavy team. I am jealous of teams like NJ

 

[McDNicks17]

"It doesn't matter that he's doing literally nothing to improve the team because he's changing the culture" sure has aged well.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

"It doesn't matter that he's doing literally nothing to improve the team because he's changing the culture" sure has aged well.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

 

[SwedishFire]

You're insane.

Im sane. The fact that no 1st rounder the last 5 years has developed into anything is extremly worriesome.
The best of them is Evan bouchard. Only player that can contribute.

2016 Puljuärvi - can play when he is on, having a bad puck handling though.
2017 Yamamoto - good for short stretches, not at all accountable as a conistent player. a 3rd liner at best
2019 Broberg - not NHL level even if he is 3 years after draft
2020 Holloway - far from NHL level, even if this should be the year.
2021 XB - still to weak.

What a waste!!
Imagine if every single 1st rounder of those 5 picks where traded for NHL talent! XB is an actual talent, having most hope for him. Holloway is that atlethic guy, not a creator.

Nuge McDavid Hyman
Kane Draisaitl - actual top6 talent for a 1st rounder
Good 3rd liner for a 2nd rounder MacLeod Kostin
Järnmark Ryan Banger

Fogeles cap traded

Nurse - Ceci
Great D for 2 1st rounders - Barrie
Kulak - Bouchard

You could have a sure fire contender if you exchanged three of those mediocre picks to trades for actual NHL players.

Edit : instead of puljujörvi - sergachev - a great talent.
Instead of yamamoto - bad draft, should just have traded the pick for a top 6er RW.
Instead of Broberg - ofC Zegras, but his style is redundent here, spwncer knight would had been the pick.
I stead of Holloway - maybe a good pick - but if possible to catch a good RW in trade - should had been done.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Im sane. The fact that no 1st rounder the last 5 years has developed into anything is extremly worriesome.
The best of them is Evan bouchard. Only player that can contribute.

2016 Puljuärvi - can play when he is on, having a bad puck handling though.
2017 Yamamoto - good for short stretches, not at all accountable as a conistent player. a 3rd liner at best
2019 Broberg - not NHL level even if he is 3 years after draft
2020 Holloway - far from NHL level, even if this should be the year.
2021 XB - still to weak.

What a waste!!
Imagine if every single 1st rounder of those 5 picks where traded for NHL talent! XB is an actual talent, having most hope for him. Holloway is that atlethic guy, not a creator.

Nuge McDavid Hyman
Kane Draisaitl - actual top6 talent for a 1st rounder
Good 3rd liner for a 2nd rounder MacLeod Kostin
Järnmark Ryan Banger

Fogeles cap traded

Nurse - Ceci
Great D for 2 1st rounders - Barrie
Kulak - Bouchard

You could have a sure fire contender if you exchanged three of those mediocre picks to trades for actual NHL players.

Edit : instead of puljujörvi - sergachev - a great talent.
Instead of yamamoto - bad draft, should just have traded the pick for a top 6er RW.
Instead of Broberg - ofC Zegras, but his style is redundent here, spwncer knight would had been the pick.
I stead of Holloway - maybe a good pick - but if possible to catch a good RW in trade - should had been done.

First rounders are usually traded for rentals or cap dumps lately. Dache and Debrincat were exceptions to the norm. Also what Cap do we have to trade a first for a salary?

 

[SwedishFire]

First rounders are usually traded for rentals or cap dumps lately. Dache and Debrincat were exceptions to the norm. Also what Cap do we have to trade a first for a salary?

1st + yamamot/pulju + low rounder for an adequate top6 winger?

Yamamoto and pulju is reclamation projects.
Yamamoto could be a great Pker and forechecker - he just needs to accept that he is a 3rd liner.
The same with Jesse. If he accepts that he needs A LOT of puckhandling practice. Its like he cant cope with handling pucks at NHLspeed. Some players just cant. He do well at lower leagues, when you got more time to focus more on the little things.

If Holland want ro keep both, then they have to be 3rd lined.
Yamamoto MacLeod Puljujärvi. That line is so suspect it could work.

Put Järnmark and Kostin as top 6ers.
If not, taking yamamotos place, and yams playing at 4th linw as a rentless forechecker, draqing penalties.
4th line is based on ryan and Fogele, Malone. Whatever workd for the cap.

Holland should just trade one of pulju and wams. Fogele seems to play a game oilers need, a physichal game.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

1st + yamamot/pulju + low rounder for an adequate top6 winger?

Yamamoto and pulju is reclamation projects.
Yamamoto could be a great Pker and forechecker - he just needs to accept that he is a 3rd liner.
The same with Jesse. If he accepts that he needs A LOT of puckhandling practice. Its like he cant cope with handling pucks at NHLspeed. Some players just cant. He do well at lower leagues, when you got more time to focus more on the little things.

If Holland want ro keep both, then they have to be 3rd lined.
Yamamoto MacLeod Puljujärvi. That line is so suspect it could work.

Put Järnmark and Kostin as top 6ers.
If not, taking yamamotos place, and yams playing at 4th linw as a rentless forechecker, draqing penalties.
4th line is based on ryan and Fogele, Malone. Whatever workd for the cap.

Holland should just trade one of pulju and wams. Fogele seems to play a game oilers need, a physichal game.

If physical play is what you're looking for Puljujarvi currently leads all non-Evander Kane Oilers forwards in hits by a lot and you can clearly see him absolutely bulldoze people on the ice. Yams I'm ready to launch into the sun though.

 

[harpoon]

Not going after any of Domi, Strome, Kubalik and doubling down on Puljujarvi + Yamamoto as support forwards really looks like a terrible call on Holland's part.

You keep posting this and I keep asking, ‘was there even one single fan on this site who wanted the team to walk away from both of those players’. Did you advocate for that? I know you didn’t. You’ve been here for years. You know as well as anyone that NHL GMs don’t walk away from first round picks coMing off 20 goal seasons. But yeah, curse Holland for not doing that thing that nobody else would have done either.

 

[SwedishFire]

If physical play is what you're looking for Puljujarvi currently leads all non-Evander Kane Oilers forwards in hits by a lot and you can clearly see him absolutely bulldoze people on the ice. Yams I'm ready to launch into the sun though.

Then it is yamamoto that we trade. I think the best bid is gonna be a 3rd rounder though.

Fogele has been good latley?
Yamamoto for a charachter 4th liner would be great. Kolesar, Stampniak, whatever.

Järnmark McDavid Hyman
Nuge Draisaitl Kane - time for draisaitl to be rewarded.
Kostin MacLeod Puljujärvi
Fogele Ryan Kolesar

Looks decent though

Then trade 2023 1st + 2nd or what needs for a good 2nd pair D at TD. And they are pretty good to go.

 

[Soundwave]

You keep posting this and I keep asking, ‘was there even one single fan on this site who wanted the team to walk away from both of those players’. Did you advocate for that? I know you didn’t. You’ve been here for years. You know as well as anyone that NHL GMs don’t walk away from first round picks coMing off 20 goal seasons. But yeah, curse Holland for not doing that thing that nobody else would have done either.

Dylan Strome is a no.3 overall pick who had 22 goals last year in 69 games which is a 26 goal pace.

Max Domi is a 1st round pick too who's had a 28 goal, 70+ point season in his career.

If the Oilers were sitting down and having a discussion about it, absolutely yes I would say they should strong consider going with those two guys over Yamamoto and Puljujarvi. If you can get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for both of them, you're getting two picks you can use in a different trade and 2 players who are equal or better to what you have.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Xavier Bourgault is another one ... only 0.5 ppg in the AHL thus far ... not exactly lighting it up. Has 3 goals and I believe two were on the PK, so 1 goal at even strength?

Bouchard is a decent player who'll probably have some high scoring seasons, but he's also a low intensity guy who isn't likely to ever be a great defender.

One wonders if the Oilers would've simply been better off trading most of the these picks for proven NHL talent.

Damn, 15 games in the AHL and Bourgault is already garbage.

Oiler fans are something else.

 

[Spawn]

Damn, 15 games in the AHL and Bourgault is already garbage.

Oiler fans are something else.

The Oilers inability to draft and develop anything other than top 3 picks is also something else.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The Oilers inability to draft and develop anything other than top 3 picks is also something else.

So that must mean Bourgault is headed to the trash pile after 14 AHL games?

 

[Spawn]

So that must mean Bourgault is headed to the trash pile after 14 AHL games?

No, but I don't think Soundwave said that.

It's fair to point out though that he has had a less than impressive start to his AHL career. A trend that happen with almost every single Oiler player who is a big time junior scorer. They get to the AHL and then immediately their offense evaporates.

 

[SwedishFire]

Dylan Strome is a no.3 overall pick who had 22 goals last year in 69 games which is a 26 goal pace.

Max Domi is a 1st round pick too who's had a 28 goal, 70+ point season in his career.

If the Oilers were sitting down and having a discussion about it, absolutely yes I would say they should strong consider going with those two guys over Yamamoto and Puljujarvi. If you can get a 2nd or 3rd round pick for both of them, you're getting two picks you can use in a different trade and 2 players who are equal or better to what you have.

I rank them personally

Domi
Pulju
Strome
Yamamoto

Strome is weak for his size. Pulju at least learned to use his size.

 

[Throttlehead]

Xbox managers are the worst.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

No, but I don't think Soundwave said that.

It's fair to point out though that he has had a less than impressive start to his AHL career. A trend that happen with almost every single Oiler player who is a big time junior scorer. They get to the AHL and then immediately their offense evaporates.

I mean bourgault ain't ripping it up or anything but the same can be said for any condors player not named Griffith, Kesselring, or broberg. The 0.5 ppg is not great but he's still tied for 3rd on the team in points which suggests his low production is being influenced by weak system and/or teammates offensively. He's also not the only player struggling to adapt to the AHL. His more hyped linemate mavrik Bourque is putting up even worse AHL numbers on a stronger Texas stars squad spearheaded by matej blumel (seriously, fire Holland already). Higher drafted players like Eklund and Lucius are also doing worse than him. The two goalies people insisted on in cossa and wallstedt are putting up 2022-23 jack campbell esque numbers in the AHL. The only guys we could've had who seem to be translating well to pro hockey so far is lysell and Johnston.

 

[harpoon]

If the Oilers were sitting down and having a discussion about it, absolutely yes I would say they should strong consider going with those two guys over Yamamoto and Puljujarvi

That’s ifs and maybes. Did you advocate for not tendering qualifying offers to Yamamoto and Puljujarvi this past off-season? No you didn’t. Do you know anyone who advocated for that? No you don’t.

It’s irrelevant how many goals Strome (or Domi) had last season. For sure, add him if you can. I’d like to have him. But the Oilers couldn’t add pieces like that because they had no money. Adding a piece like that would have meant no Kane re-signing, and no QO to at least one of Puljujarvi or Yamamoto.

And this is why I keep asking you, did you want Holland to bring in Max Domi at the cost of losing Puljujarvi for nothing? Because if you were one of those 1/1000 people who was suggesting a move like that then you should say so and receive the respect of the board. If you were not, and given the salary cap constraints that you know very well, you should really stop saying ‘we could have had Kubalik, Strome and Domi’. It sounds kinda lame tbh.

 

[Soundwave]

That’s ifs and maybes. Did you advocate for not tendering qualifying offers to Yamamoto and Puljujarvi this past off-season? No you didn’t. Do you know anyone who advocated for that? No you don’t.

It’s irrelevant how many goals Strome (or Domi) had last season. For sure, add him if you can. I’d like to have him. But the Oilers couldn’t add pieces like that because they had no money. Adding a piece like that would have meant no Kane re-signing, and no QO to at least one of Puljujarvi or Yamamoto.

And this is why I keep asking you, did you want Holland to bring in Max Domi at the cost of losing Puljujarvi for nothing? Because if you were one of those 1/1000 people who was suggesting a move like that then you should say so and receive the respect of the board. If you were not, and given the salary cap constraints that you know very well, you should really stop saying ‘we could have had Kubalik, Strome and Domi’. It sounds kinda lame tbh.

It's not really ifs and maybes, it's called doing your job as a GM and constantly looking at ways to better the team rather than sitting back. That should always be how our front office operates.

I don't view losing Puljujarvi or Yamamoto "for nothing" if you have options that are potentially better than them available for the same money. That's just using your available cap space in a different, potentially better way. It would be different if you're just dumping them for the sake of dumping them ... but we would be using that same money on potentially better players. We're under no obligation to give a QO to anyone if there are better players to be had for similar money.

Lets also keep in mind Puljujarvi and Yamamoto did very little in the playoffs, McDavid/Drai/Hyman/Kane had to basically carry the entire forward corps and a crippled blue line and a 40 year old goalie to a Conference Final berth. There's plenty of warning signs here that at 5'7 ... Yamamoto really can't play with Draisaitl without being pushed to the outside of games for long stretches of seasons and playoffs, there's plenty of signs that Puljujarvi lacks the hockey I.Q. and hands to play with McDavid or Draisaitl making him a 3 million dollar 3rd liner.

 

[SwedishFire]

Holland has done a good off season job, but he created new misstakes, the badest one is 3 years at 3 million for a struggling yamamoto.
Im sorry, but he us the player I rather see to go.
Puljujärvi is both more useful now, with his new found physichality, and shorter contract.
So pulju is the one with higher trading value.
Maybe a 2nd even. Yamamoto is at highest a 3rd rounder - I mean, if Yakupiv fetch that yams should also do that. Yams is at least a good Pker.
Its 6 millikns that needs to be signed to another RW and a new LD.
Then this team is set.
But I do really wonder if Holland will do anything at all. He is so afraid of doing misstrades, but its eminent - yamamotos future is not estaticly bright here. He is limited.

Pulju is probably easier to trade, so I could see him going around christmas break(poor guy, but trades happens at worst times for players)

Edit : Holland, if you read this.
You just need to clear cap.
Trade now.
Yamamoto is just to much risk of a gamble, clear his cap. Please.
And get a steady defensive D. Yesterday.
And by the way, good job with that Kostin trade. On to the next trade.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Goalies that can't stop pucks
Defenders that can't defend
Forwards that can't score.

Holland's Oilers.