Speculation: Fire Glen Sather

[mulli25]

Just curious, what do you think is Stepan's ceiling?

70-75 point guy? Wish that was it but personally I don't see it. I see a two-way, 60 point solid 2nd line center, or slightly below average 1st line center at best.

Please explain how again all of this is AV's fault?

I see him scoring in the mid 60s most of his career. Which would put him pretty much in the dead center of the league for first line centers.

My position on AV, and his role in this mess, is well documented so I see no need in saying anything again. However, I can assure you I've never claimed this is all his fault.

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

bad thought here.. Since Sather seem to not care about this team judging by some of the moves and signings he has made, what are the chances Sather messes up this team before he retires??? imagine if he made a few bad moves and the retired.... what if that happened...

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Why is it Dolan won't fire Sather, and for that matter, anybody with the Rangers or Knicks front office unless they commit a sexual assualt crime?

I don't get it, IF Dolan cared about winning, then why have incompotent GMs?
If Dolan cares only about money, then why spend so much as he does for both teams?
What's his deal?

The Ranger payroll is less now than it was before the lockout in 2004 and the results are significantly better. On paper it looks like Sather is doing his job and rather well according the bean counters who don't know anything about hockey.

Someone else will have to explain what's going on with the Knicks.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

The only time the Rangers had a losing record in mid-December was 2009-10, and they missed the playoffs that year.

There's really no excuse for losing four straight home games to New Jersey, Washington, Nashville and Columbus.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Prepare for suckdom for the forseeable future.

Anybody remember the "Cheque line"?

Occassional fun games against lousy opponents followed by 3-4 game losing streaks. No playoffs.

Off season signings of big name out to pasture former stars.

been here, done that.

The gliimer we had in the "post '04/05 lockout" era is officially over.

We are looking at 5 years of suckage before we have hope again.

oh well, some of it was fun

 

[Punxrocknyc19*]

The only time the Rangers had a losing record in mid-December was 2009-10, and they missed the playoffs that year.

There's really no excuse for losing four straight home games to New Jersey, Washington, Nashville and Columbus.

if this team cant even get ready for games, maybe some locker room problems, or could they tuned out the coach already

 

[Blueshirt Special]

At this point I'm wondering if we wouldn't have been better off giving Messier a shot.

At least there would be some fireworks. No way he tolerates this crap, though I'm not sure what he might have able to do about it.

Maybe he would have forced a major personnel change and re-build?

Frankly at this point with where I think this season is headed, and the looming persistance of Sather at the helm, I would be in favor of Mess coming in, in place of AV either at the end of this season when we are almost certain to miss the playoffs, or to start next season.

HUGE RISK. But at this point I don't think we have much to lose.

Yes, I'm that certain this season is going down the tubes.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

At this point I'm wondering if we wouldn't have been better off giving Messier a shot.

At least there would be some fireworks. No way he tolerates this crap, though I'm not sure what he might have able to do about it.

Maybe he would have forced a major personnel change and re-build?

Frankly at this point with where I think this season is headed, and the looming persistance of Sather at the helm, I would be in favor of Mess coming in, in place of AV either at the end of this season when we are almost certain to miss the playoffs, or to start next season.

HUGE RISK. But at this point I don't think we have much to lose.

Yes, I'm that certain this season is going down the tubes.

Amazing that there only two coaching options out there.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Coaching isnt the issue. I cant fault AV for not getting these guys to compete or bury scoring chances. Sather built these teams around Lundqvist, but in reality the players always stunk

Is it AV's fault Lundqvist has been below average this season? Not really. The prevailing theory around here after the 2-6 start was that AV's system put a guy like Lundqvist as risk.

Too bad people forgot to check the stats and see that since mid-October, the Rangers have been one of the best teams in the league at shots against and scoring chances against.

It's not like Lundqvist is getting bombarded period after period with scoring chances. He's literally not making big saves when the Rangers do cough one up.

It's reciprocal. Lundqvist wants the defense to limit his workload and he wants the offense to keep pressure on the other team, the defense wants Lundqvist to bail them out when they mess up, and the offense wants Lundqvist to keep the other team off the scoreboard until they can score and build on a lead.

Lundqvist hasnt done that.

To prove how valuable he was in 2012, he had a mind-numbing 2.75 GAA average in losses. This year, he has a 3.75 GAA in losses. That's his worst GAA in losses in his career (he's usually around 3.15 - 3.25)

The team stinks. Not news. Theyve always stunk. Lundqvist now stinks as well, and the proof is in the pudding.

Like I've been saying for years -- They're the New York Cubs. Lovable Losers. Too bad the games arent always outdoors and the tickets are too expensive. Cubs fans go to games to get bombed and sing a song. I'm still trying to figure out why people pay to see the Rangers.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Amazing that there only two coaching options out there.

For the record, I wouldn't have been UNhappy with Ruff, and I'm not even blaming AV.

It's just that I have been a Ranger fan since long BEFORE Messiser, and the turn this team has taken is all too familiar. And so I am getting that feeling like the "curse" needs to be broken. Something drastic is required. messier as coach qualifies as drastic. A BIG change. He would call out the organization, which is maybe why he was never really seriuosly considered for the job.

Clearly we are never going to be a Detroit Red Wings type of organization, but I would like to see another Cup in my lifetime. Slather got lucky with some personnel like Hankand a few others ala the blind squirrel method and it looked like he might know what he was doing for a moment. But then he "took control" and started signing Gomez and Drury et al and now the curtain has been pulled back on his illusions as Hank has come down to earth.

I don't think we can get where we need to be the way other teams in the league have done it. This is New York. Hockey. It's different here.

Im in favor of something drastic sooner rather than later. Otherwise We're going to piss away 5 years.

JMHO

 

[Overcast]

For the record, I wouldn't have been UNhappy with Ruff, and I'm not even blaming AV.

It's just that I have been a Ranger fan since long BEFORE Messiser, and the turn this team has taken is all too familiar. And so I am getting that feeling like the "curse" needs to be broken. Something drastic is required. messier as coach qualifies as drastic. A BIG change. He would call out the organization, which is maybe why he was never really seriuosly considered for the job.

Clearly we are never going to be a Detroit Red Wings type of organization, but I would like to see another Cup in my lifetime. Slather got lucky with some personnel like Hankand a few others ala the blind squirrel method and it looked like he might know what he was doing for a moment. But then he "took control" and started signing Gomez and Drury et al and now the curtain has been pulled back on his illusions as Hank has come down to earth.

I don't think we can get where we need to be the way other teams in the league have done it. This is New York. Hockey. It's different here.

Im in favor of something drastic sooner rather than later. Otherwise We're going to piss away 5 years.

JMHO

You truthfully think Messier would call out Sather about ANYTHING if he was handed the coaching job?

 

[stan the caddy]

Coaching isnt the issue. I cant fault AV for not getting these guys to compete or bury scoring chances. Sather built these teams around Lundqvist, but in reality the players always stunk

Is it AV's fault Lundqvist has been below average this season? Not really. The prevailing theory around here after the 2-6 start was that AV's system put a guy like Lundqvist as risk.

Too bad people forgot to check the stats and see that since mid-October, the Rangers have been one of the best teams in the league at shots against and scoring chances against.

It's not like Lundqvist is getting bombarded period after period with scoring chances. He's literally not making big saves when the Rangers do cough one up.

It's reciprocal. Lundqvist wants the defense to limit his workload and he wants the offense to keep pressure on the other team, the defense wants Lundqvist to bail them out when they mess up, and the offense wants Lundqvist to keep the other team off the scoreboard until they can score and build on a lead.

Lundqvist hasnt done that.

To prove how valuable he was in 2012, he had a mind-numbing 2.75 GAA average in losses. This year, he has a 3.75 GAA in losses. That's his worst GAA in losses in his career (he's usually around 3.15 - 3.25)

The team stinks. Not news. Theyve always stunk. Lundqvist now stinks as well, and the proof is in the pudding.

Like I've been saying for years -- They're the New York Cubs. Lovable Losers. Too bad the games arent always outdoors and the tickets are too expensive. Cubs fans go to games to get bombed and sing a song. I'm still trying to figure out why people pay to see the Rangers.

If shots and scoring chances were the be all end all then the Rangers wouldn't be 29th in scoring. The Rangers are sloppy and create a lot of odd man rushes for their opponents. Goalies do not succeed in those situations, don't care how good they are.

Look at the last game. Hank gives up a goal that he'd like to get back but it's still a rip into the corner of the net that should never happen. Stralman's d was attrocious. Then Anisimov chips in a goal that no goalie in the league is stopping. The third goal bounces in off of MDZ. Hank ends up sitting on the bench...

Hank has played a lot of games that he's been sharp in and still let up 3 or 4 goals and he ends up getting blamed. A goalie is at the mercy of the quality of the shot that he faces.

I do agree there is no reason to spend money on this team.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

You truthfully think Messier would call out Sather about ANYTHING if he was handed the coaching job?

I think as the team struggled (which it would of course even if there was some temporary lift at first), he would ultimately get frustrated and make comments to the press about what he thought was REALLY wrong with the team. I think he would want to make big changes as he did when he was a player and if he ran into resistance it would unfold in the press and be a controversy.

So, yes.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Having said that ^^^^^,

I agree that it is Sather who is our biggest problem right now and I think he will NOT hire Messier because of the chance of that very calling out potential.

 

[ncmike]

Usually when a coach or a GM gets a vote of confidence from an owner he is looking for a new address in a couple of weeks. The problem for the Rangers lies solely at the feet of Dolan.

 

[rkhum]

The Ranger payroll is less now than it was before the lockout in 2004 and the results are significantly better. On paper it looks like Sather is doing his job and rather well according the bean counters who don't know anything about hockey.

Someone else will have to explain what's going on with the Knicks.

So all Dolan cares about is making money with the Rangers and Knicks, not titles?

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

So all Dolan cares about is making money with the Rangers and Knicks, not titles?

Winning creates more revenue. Losing can only be tolerated for so long.

The organization is incapable of long term planning. It's true all over, not just here. They do one thing, then another, without waiting to see if the first thing works. We'll see if Av gets his way and Sather dumps a bunch of players to make him more comfortable.

 

[Lion Hound]

I truly don't think Sather is done until he himself wants to retire. Heath has come into play here for him. He is getting up there in age. But...as it appears he's going to stick it out.

Not sure but I could see one to 2 more years for him.

As a fan, I am scared of the direction right now. I've been a very faithful follower since the late 80's. Right now, this to me is getting to a new level where I think the club doesn't need a shake up but an asset rebuilding period. That always puts a club into a better place.

The Garden is a funny place. It's a very corporate environment juiced up by a cult following of super die hard fans. As a mix, whether it be the corp followers or the die yards they have ALWAYS thrived on the blue collar players. The Callahans, the Dubinsky's, The Prusts, the Jed Ortmeyers, the Todd Harvey's... Etc. Nowadays the guys you would think would be those types are falling out of favor. Why isn't Dorsett loved here? He was in Columbus.

I personally think its the overall direction. Club was slotted as a contender. Big money was laid out. It's failed! Time for a change. A big change!

 

[BBKers]

Some current stats regarding the Nash & Gaborik trades

TO COLUMBUS
B Dubinsky 27 GP 6 G 15 A 21 P 4.200.000 caphit
A Anisimov 33 GP 9 G 5 A 14 P 3.283.333 caphit
M Gaborik 17 GP 5 G 6 A 11 P 7.500.000 caphit
T Erixon 1 GP 0 G 0 A 0 P 900.000 caphit(he has 16 points in 14 games in the AHL so far as well)
TOTAL 88 GP 20 G 26 A 46 P 15.883.333 caphit
Notes:
Kerby Reichel (which was "our" #12 1st round pick) currently has 45 points in 30 games for Guelph in the OHL

TO NYR
D Brassard 32 GP 5 G 9 A 14 P 3.200.000 caphit
R Nash 16 GP 6 G 5 A 11 P 7.800.000 caphit
J Moore 32 GP 2 G 3 A 5 P 840.000 caphit
D Dorsett 28 GP 2 G 1 A 3 P 1.633.333 caphit
J Falk 13 GP 0 G 1 A 1 P 975.000 caphit (was acquired with the 6th round pick from Columbus for M Gaborik)
TOTAL 121 GP 15 G 19 A 34 P 14.448.333 caphit
Notes:
Pavel Buchnevich (chosen #75 - acquired 3rd round pick in the Nash deal) currently has 12 points in 31 games for Cherepovets Severstal in the KHL

In other news, Vladamir Tarasenko now has 11 goals and is yet but still playing sheltered 3rd line minutes (14:23) on the Blues. The leading goalscorer on the Rangers (Brad Richards) this year has 9 goals, which is tied for 42nd place in the league. Rangers are tied for 28/29th in the league in goalscoring at 2.18 gpg. Offensive hockey my butt...

 

[eco's bones]

TO COLUMBUS
B Dubinsky 27 GP 6 G 15 A 21 P 4.200.000 caphit
A Anisimov 33 GP 9 G 5 A 14 P 3.283.333 caphit
M Gaborik 17 GP 5 G 6 A 11 P 7.500.000 caphit
T Erixon 1 GP 0 G 0 A 0 P 900.000 caphit(he has 16 points in 14 games in the AHL so far as well)
TOTAL 88 GP 20 G 26 A 46 P 15.883.333 caphit
Notes:
Kerby Reichel (which was "our" #12 1st round pick) currently has 45 points in 30 games for Guelph in the OHL

TO NYR
D Brassard 32 GP 5 G 9 A 14 P 3.200.000 caphit
R Nash 16 GP 6 G 5 A 11 P 7.800.000 caphit
J Moore 32 GP 2 G 3 A 5 P 840.000 caphit
D Dorsett 28 GP 2 G 1 A 3 P 1.633.333 caphit
J Falk 13 GP 0 G 1 A 1 P 975.000 caphit (was acquired with the 6th round pick from Columbus for M Gaborik)
TOTAL 121 GP 15 G 19 A 34 P 14.448.333 caphit
Notes:
Pavel Buchnevich (chosen #75 - acquired 3rd round pick in the Nash deal) currently has 12 points in 31 games for Cherepovets Severstal in the KHL

In other news, Vladamir Tarasenko now has 11 goals and is yet but still playing sheltered 3rd line minutes (14:23) on the Blues. The leading goalscorer on the Rangers (Brad Richards) this year has 9 goals, which is tied for 42nd place in the league. Rangers are tied for 28/29th in the league in goalscoring at 2.18 gpg. Offensive hockey my butt...

There's an alternative definition of the word 'offensive' and it's not good.

 

[BBKers]

Maybe the senile Cigar Man thinks/believes that offensive is repulsively loathsome as opposed to being an antonym to defensive? I dunno. Can that Man

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Bump

Don't want to let this die just because we managed a SO win against a sub par team.

Sather STILL needs to go.

 

[True Blue]

Coaching isnt the issue. I cant fault AV for not getting these guys to compete or bury scoring chances.

Excuse me? You cannot fault AV for not getting these guys to compete? You can crucify him for that, as far as I am concerned.

Sather is the cornerstone of the malaise that this franchise is in. Tortarella was a coach that was beyond his control. The players chafed and so he is gone. We have now reverted to a country club atmosphere that has been the norm for the team under Sather. And the results.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Excuse me? You cannot fault AV for not getting these guys to compete? You can crucify him for that, as far as I am concerned.

Sather is the cornerstone of the malaise that this franchise is in. Tortarella was a coach that was beyond his control. The players chafed and so he is gone. We have now reverted to a country club atmosphere that has been the norm for the team under Sather. And the results.

I think the lack of compete is one of the few things you can put on AV.

 

[True Blue]

I think the lack of compete is one of the few things you can put on AV.

Any coach that is unable to motivate his team (through fear or cajoling or whatever) does not belong behind the bench. See Ron Blow.