Speculation: Fire Glen Sather

[KreiMeARiver*]

Coach needs to recognize what kind of players he has before he implements a system. You can't pound a square peg in a round hole. I blame AV totally for not knowing what kind of players he had prior to getting training camp going. There are tons of film on these guys, it's not like he never has seen any of these players, like they came from Pee-Wee's or something. He is totally to blame (Sather too, but he is going nowhere).

He specifically said he DID NOT watch ANY film before the season, and everyone had a clean slate.

read: he's lazy and was very unprepared for the season.

 

[bubba5]

Disagree. The team doesn't have the requisite depth or skill to win and that responsibility falls on the GM. AV can implement any system he wants but the players have to execute and the roster we currently have can't.

You can't execute an offensive puck possession if you don't have those type of players, and we don't have them. Why do you think Torts played that defensive scheme, he knew what he had, the players hated it, but he knew better. This guy was lazy when he was hired by not doing his research on each player on his squad before training camp. No it is a mess, he took 4 months to figure this out and wants to go back to what Torts had. AV-Thanks for your hard work!

 

[mulli25]

You can't execute an offensive puck possession if you don't have those type of players, and we don't have them. Why do you think Torts played that defensive scheme, he knew what he had, the players hated it, but he knew better. This guy was lazy when he was hired by not doing his research on each player on his squad before training camp. No it is a mess, he took 4 months to figure this out and wants to go back to what Torts had. AV-Thanks for your hard work!

No, this team is terrible despite AV's truely magnificent and glorious coaching

Nothing else could possibly be extracted from this talentless bag of homeless men Sather rounded up and put Ranger uniforms on.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I'm curious how many of these threads there's been over the years...

The irony is that after all the bad contracts and dumb decisions, we actually had a damn good team, and he just messed that up too; though it seems like forever ago. He should have left after that season; if they went on to win, he would have been recognized as a part of it's construction. But nooooo.

I don't think he ruined it in the way hat I don' thtink he made moves that chipped away at the team. I think he indirectly ruined because it inherently had a very short shelf life which is just as big a negative strikle agaist him. After 13 years he had to have all the stars align for one "magical" season where we were horrible in the PO's. Contracts did not tear the team apart (like chicago after thir 1st cup) it was age and bodies breaking down.

Add to that the inability to draft smart hockey players or tough bottom 6 players.

But Callahan, Girardi, gabs, Richards, and now it seems Lundqvist have all begun to age or have aged already. Staal's also just too much of a mainstay in the infirmary and his play has been atrocious & disappointing. No way the team could stay above water like that. But a good GM can brng ne blood in as the old blood phases out.

 

[JimmyG89]

No, this team is terrible despite AV's truely magnificent and glorious coaching

Nothing else could possibly be extracted from this talentless bag of homeless men Sather rounded up and put Ranger uniforms on.

Can you play a puck possession, puck movement system with players like Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett, Moore, Pouliot, etc in your bottom 6? These Players Do Not Play That style. They fit what Torts was looking for. How can AV change a skill set of a player. Sather and Dolan stressed a more offensive system. They get a coach who plays that way and the pieces he has cannot. How can a coach be blamed even if he said we have to change what I like to do and become more passive and defensive due to these issues?

He is trying to make it work, but right now does not have the pieces to work. AV'S style is the least of our worries. The Roster construction is the biggest issue and that is on Sather.

 

[mulli25]

Can you play a puck possession, puck movement system with players like Pyatt, Boyle, Dorsett, Moore, Pouliot, etc in your bottom 6? These Players Do Not Play That style. They fit what Torts was looking for. How can AV change a skill set of a player. Sather and Dolan stressed a more offensive system. They get a coach who plays that way and the pieces he has cannot. How can a coach be blamed even if he said we have to change what I like to do and become more passive and defensive due to these issues?

He is trying to make it work, but right now does not have the pieces to work. AV'S style is the least of our worries. The Roster construction is the biggest issue and that is on Sather.

I get it, the bottom lines aren't "AV guys"...good thing the top 6 are playing awesome

What everyone seems to be ignoring is the fact that a crappy bottom six shouldn't make the rest of your team god awful. Watch the product on the ice. This team isn't playing like a group that's only held back by talent. They're playing like a group that has no idea what they're doing and is nonchalantly coasting to the offseason.

Am i supposed to belive that Derek Stepan forgot how to backcheck properlly because Pouliot plays 10 minutes a night on the same team?

Did Callahan lose most of his offesive abilitiy becuase Pyatt wears the same uniform?

Did Nash revert back to the Columbus mentality just because of his proximaty to John Moore and Derek Dorset?

Or maybe, just maybe, is this coach doing a terrible job of getting the msot out of his palyers? No one expects this group to be serious cup contenders, but we should certianly expect them to be better than this.

 

[Sean C Billups]

I get it, the bottom lines aren't "AV guys"...good thing the top 6 are playing awesome

What everyone seems to be ignoring is the fact that a crappy bottom six shouldn't make the rest of your team god awful. Watch the product on the ice. This team isn't playing like a group that's only held back by talent. They're playing like a group that has no idea what they're doing and is nonchalantly coasting to the offseason.

Am i supposed to belive that Derek Stepan forgot how to backcheck properlly because Pouliot plays 10 minutes a night on the same team?

Did Callahan lose most of his offesive abilitiy becuase Pyatt wears the same uniform?

Did Nash revert back to the Columbus mentality just because of his proximaty to John Moore and Derek Dorset?

Or maybe, just maybe, is this coach doing a terrible job of getting the msot out of his palyers? No one expects this group to be serious cup contenders, but we should certianly expect them to be better than this.

Of our top 6, who would you consider to be legit 1st liners?

 

[mulli25]

Of our top 6, who would you consider to be legit 1st liners?

Rick Nash and Derek Stepan

how many did we have in 2011-12?

 

[Sean C Billups]

Rick Nash and Derek Stepan

how many did we have in 2011-12?

2 maybe. Gaborik and Richards maybe. I understand your point but the dynamic of the team was much different in '11-'12. Torts was defend defend defend. AV wants a more offensive style of play, placing a heavier reliance on the production of the top 6.

 

[aufheben]

I don't think he ruined it in the way hat I don' thtink he made moves that chipped away at the team. I think he indirectly ruined because it inherently had a very short shelf life which is just as big a negative strikle agaist him. After 13 years he had to have all the stars align for one "magical" season where we were horrible in the PO's. Contracts did not tear the team apart (like chicago after thir 1st cup) it was age and bodies breaking down.

Add to that the inability to draft smart hockey players or tough bottom 6 players.

But Callahan, Girardi, gabs, Richards, and now it seems Lundqvist have all begun to age or have aged already. Staal's also just too much of a mainstay in the infirmary and his play has been atrocious & disappointing. No way the team could stay above water like that. But a good GM can brng ne blood in as the old blood phases out.

Directly, indirectly, I think Sather just completely underestimated the importance of that team's cohesion. I myself thought we'd be fine, but chemistry and depth are important. He took a chance trying to push us over the top, it didn't work, and here we are.

 

[zuckera1]

You guys blaming AV for this mess are about as absurd as those who blamed Torts last year for our inability to score. Both AV and Torts are good coaches who are capable of winning a Cup in this league, it's this roster that lacks talent.

It's on our players who lack basic offensive hockey skills. I've never seen a more apathetic, offensively-inept team than the 2013-2014 NYR in quite some time.

Something has to change. Sather needs to either make some trades (Cally/Staal/Brassard/Hagelin/Boyle are the guys I'd put on the block) or get out of town FAST

 

[zuckera1]

Rick Nash and Derek Stepan

how many did we have in 2011-12?

Stepan is not a "legit 1st liner." His play this year is more indicative of what he'll become. He's a solid two-way 2nd-line center, not a first line center you can rely on to be "the guy."

The only first line talent we have is Nash, who isn't capable of carrying the entire offense, as he's not in Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin's tier of elite players.

 

[mulli25]

Stepan is not a "legit 1st liner." His play this year is more indicative of what he'll become. He's a solid two-way 2nd-line center, not a first line center you can rely on to be "the guy."

The only first line talent we have is Nash, who isn't capable of carrying the entire offense, as he's not in Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin's tier of elite players.

So despite being, what, 20th in points last year, Stepan isn't a first liner?

What the hell is the definition of a first line player? The upper echelon of elite? Then guess what, we will NEVER have three of them on our team, no ones does.

 

[zuckera1]

So despite being, what, 20th in points last year, Stepan isn't a first liner?

What the hell is the definition of a first line player? The upper echelon of elite? Then guess what, we will NEVER have three of them on our team, no ones does.

Yeah OK and what about this year? Huh? He's looked beyond mediocre and he's on pace to not even score 60 points but yet people still bring up his success in a shortened season last year. He was mediocre in the post-season as well.

I love Step but we need to tamper our expectations a bit or we'll be disappointed.

A legit first line center needs to score at least 65-70 points, I'll be surprised if Step gets that many this year

 

[Trxjw]

Yeah OK and what about this year? Huh? He's looked beyond mediocre and he's on pace to not even score 60 points but yet people still bring up his success in a shortened season last year. He was mediocre in the post-season as well.

I love Step but we need to tamper our expectations a bit or we'll be disappointed.

A legit first line center needs to score at least 65-70 points, I'll be surprised if Step gets that many this year

I fail to see how you can slight people for basing their view of him on 48 games last season, and then turn around and use this season as an example to support your argument. 48 games isn't enough, but somehow 33 games is? How does that work?

 

[zuckera1]

I fail to see how you can slight people for basing their view of him on 48 games last season, and then turn around and use this season as an example to support your argument. 48 games isn't enough, but somehow 33 games is? How does that work?

Here's how it works: Stepan's production this year is comparable to how he produced in all of his years other than last year. Therefore, last year was likely more of an aberration/overachievement rather than what we should expect from him moving forward.

 

[Shadowtron]

I fail to see how you can slight people for basing their view of him on 48 games last season, and then turn around and use this season as an example to support your argument. 48 games isn't enough, but somehow 33 games is? How does that work?

To Zuck's defense, he did say "on pace to...".

 

[beastly115]

I haven't watched more than 5 games this season and the only thing that will bring me back full time is the firing of Glen Sather. Sick of this moron.

 

[Oak]

1. Have the Gambinos come in and give Sather an offer he cant refuse.
2. Let Jeff Gorton take over and hope he can put together a team like he did for the Bruins.
3. ????
4. Win Stanley Cup!

 

[Sean C Billups]

I fail to see how you can slight people for basing their view of him on 48 games last season, and then turn around and use this season as an example to support your argument. 48 games isn't enough, but somehow 33 games is? How does that work?

imo you also have to consider this is his first season in a new system while last season was his 3rd under Torts. Doesn't help that we don't have the players to execute AVs system...

 

[rkhum]

Why is it Dolan won't fire Sather, and for that matter, anybody with the Rangers or Knicks front office unless they commit a sexual assualt crime?

I don't get it, IF Dolan cared about winning, then why have incompotent GMs?
If Dolan cares only about money, then why spend so much as he does for both teams?
What's his deal?

 

[Pastafazul*]

it is time

 

[mulli25]

Here's how it works: Stepan's production this year is comparable to how he produced in all of his years other than last year. Therefore, last year was likely more of an aberration/overachievement rather than what we should expect from him moving forward.

You're right, a players production his first two seasons in the league is almost always as good as he'll ever be.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Stepan, along with nearly everyone else on the team, is playing below his capability. Now if it's a single player, or a couple players, that are struggling that's one thing. But when it's nearly the entire team, outside of maybe McD, then it's a pretty obvious indictment of the coaching.

But you're probably right, this roster isn't capable of anything more than the gong show we've seen. AV is coaching the crap out of this rag tag group of minor leaguers. It was clearly a fluke anytime any of these guys had success in the past.

 

[RGY]

You're right, a players production his first two seasons in the league is almost always as good as he'll ever be.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Stepan, along with nearly everyone else on the team, is playing below his capability. Now if it's a single player, or a couple players, that are struggling that's one thing. But when it's nearly the entire team, outside of maybe McD, then it's a pretty obvious indictment of the coaching.

But you're probably right, this roster isn't capable of anything more than the gong show we've seen. AV is coaching the crap out of this rag tag group of minor leaguers. It was clearly a fluke anytime any of these guys had success in the past.

I agree that it is the entire team. I will hold AV accountable to a degree, but this team as a whole is in a bad state of mind right now. I'm not saying this is a great hockey club, but these guys are certainly better than what they've shown.

 

[zuckera1]

You're right, a players production his first two seasons in the league is almost always as good as he'll ever be.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Stepan, along with nearly everyone else on the team, is playing below his capability. Now if it's a single player, or a couple players, that are struggling that's one thing. But when it's nearly the entire team, outside of maybe McD, then it's a pretty obvious indictment of the coaching.

But you're probably right, this roster isn't capable of anything more than the gong show we've seen. AV is coaching the crap out of this rag tag group of minor leaguers. It was clearly a fluke anytime any of these guys had success in the past.

Just curious, what do you think is Stepan's ceiling?

70-75 point guy? Wish that was it but personally I don't see it. I see a two-way, 60 point solid 2nd line center, or slightly below average 1st line center at best.

Please explain how again all of this is AV's fault?