Speculation: Fire Glen Sather
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LieutenantLackluster
welp
How about this:
Beat a team youre supposed to beat in less than 7 games and the schedule wouldnt be an issue. Instead we have had mediocre play since round 1 game 2, and they deserve to gtfo.
Stop making excuses. This team is doomed.
Beat a team youre supposed to beat in less than 7 games and the schedule wouldnt be an issue. Instead we have had mediocre play since round 1 game 2, and they deserve to gtfo.
Stop making excuses. This team is doomed.
Last edited:
DutchShamrock
Registered User
You see a lot of the LA Kings mindset in Hextall. Draft, patience, upgrade through timely trades. Can't say one way or the other if LA uses analytics but the up and comers use it like the Hawks, and Hextall is big in it too.
Sather and the organization as a whole has no one philosophy. They always chase the current trend. They don't have time to cultivate through the draft because the organization moved in a new direction by the time they develop.
I'm getting the sense that LA is detested by most. But I really admire Lombardi and the organization. He went there, inherited an absolute mess and held fast to his ideals. Even when everyone else lost patience, clamoured for him to make quick fixes like kovalchuk, and branded them failures, he held fast. People may hate their style and players like brown, but that is team with a mission statement, clear goals, patience and an understanding of today's game. Just every bit the antithesis of Sather.
Sather and the organization as a whole has no one philosophy. They always chase the current trend. They don't have time to cultivate through the draft because the organization moved in a new direction by the time they develop.
I'm getting the sense that LA is detested by most. But I really admire Lombardi and the organization. He went there, inherited an absolute mess and held fast to his ideals. Even when everyone else lost patience, clamoured for him to make quick fixes like kovalchuk, and branded them failures, he held fast. People may hate their style and players like brown, but that is team with a mission statement, clear goals, patience and an understanding of today's game. Just every bit the antithesis of Sather.
haveandare
Registered User
And so many people around here complained that the team had no top talent. Now they have it, and the problem is that they don't have the other end.
Seems like whatever is being done at the time of discussion is being done wrong regardless of anything else.
4 cups in 87 years and 1 in 74
Do you think this going to change anytime soon
Dubinsky and Callahan were nice draft choices but they are not ovechkin, Crosby, malkin or anything close.
This organization has no patience with young players and the fan base that pays all sorts of money in the lower bowls are star **********.
They are not the real fans but they are the ones this organization caters to.
Msg makes money win or lose. Just a crying shame.
Do you think this going to change anytime soon
Dubinsky and Callahan were nice draft choices but they are not ovechkin, Crosby, malkin or anything close.
This organization has no patience with young players and the fan base that pays all sorts of money in the lower bowls are star **********.
They are not the real fans but they are the ones this organization caters to.
Msg makes money win or lose. Just a crying shame.
When you say other end you mean the bottom lines and pairs? We definitely have those. I feel more like our problem is not that we are missing the bottom lines. We are very much missing the performance from the top lines that we do have. It's a choke job imo. Stepan, Nash, MSL, McD, Richards all choking. The zuke line, Staal, Stralman, Hank and the 4th line showed up.
ponzu4u
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2013
- 525
- 269
^^^^^to the guy talking about the Kings, I couldn't agree more.
And as a former New Yorker now living in LA, it really does kill me having watched the turnaround the franchise has undergone under Lombardi. I want to be able to support them wholeheartedly, but the jealousy is just tooooo intense.
Watching them steamroll through those playoffs on the way to their first cup. That lineup just clicked and destroyed everybody they faced. It was like nobody had a chance.
Last year, they looked a good bet to repeat, but injuries and the eventual Stanley Cup Champs stopped them in the WC Finals.
Then this year they manage to pull off an EPIC 0-3 series comeback, the likes of which have only been seen 3 times in NHL history... against their MOST HATED RIVAL no less! (and yes, after living here 15 years I will not hesitate to say Kings-Sharks is a bigger rivalry than Kings-Ducks). And in the process Gabby has the best playoff series of his career for them.
They're a tough, sock you in the face team that shows up in the playoffs and somehow finds a way to win. Overflowing in exactly what this years' Ranger team is lacking in.
All the while, as far as their roster is concerned:
Their franchise defenseman (Arguably top 3 in NHL) is only 24 and signed long term (7$ a year)
Their franchise goalie (Non-arguably top 3 in NHL) is 28 and signed long term ($5.8 a year!!!!!! Lundqvist is $8.5!!!!!! and 32)
Their first line center (Kopi) is 26, consistent and a proven playoff performer (6.8 a year compared to Richard's 6.6 and 34 years of age)
They have promising young offensive D men already on the team in Voynov and Muzzin, and coming up they have McNabb, Forbort and Gravel who should match up well alongside them.
Their forward prospects are also pretty much across the board more impressive than what the Rangers currently boast.
I just keep wanting to believe that someday soon I will believe the Rangers franchise is being run more competently than the Kings, but so little that I see lends any credence to that belief.
And to make it even worse, the Flyers pull Hextall from the Kings organization, and he immediately starts preaching an organizational philosophy of patience with young players and building through the draft, straight out of the Kings playbook. I shudder at the thought of watching the Flyers become a Kings East, set up for years of success, while the Rangers seem headed in the opposite direction.
And as a former New Yorker now living in LA, it really does kill me having watched the turnaround the franchise has undergone under Lombardi. I want to be able to support them wholeheartedly, but the jealousy is just tooooo intense.
Watching them steamroll through those playoffs on the way to their first cup. That lineup just clicked and destroyed everybody they faced. It was like nobody had a chance.
Last year, they looked a good bet to repeat, but injuries and the eventual Stanley Cup Champs stopped them in the WC Finals.
Then this year they manage to pull off an EPIC 0-3 series comeback, the likes of which have only been seen 3 times in NHL history... against their MOST HATED RIVAL no less! (and yes, after living here 15 years I will not hesitate to say Kings-Sharks is a bigger rivalry than Kings-Ducks). And in the process Gabby has the best playoff series of his career for them.
They're a tough, sock you in the face team that shows up in the playoffs and somehow finds a way to win. Overflowing in exactly what this years' Ranger team is lacking in.
All the while, as far as their roster is concerned:
Their franchise defenseman (Arguably top 3 in NHL) is only 24 and signed long term (7$ a year)
Their franchise goalie (Non-arguably top 3 in NHL) is 28 and signed long term ($5.8 a year!!!!!! Lundqvist is $8.5!!!!!! and 32)
Their first line center (Kopi) is 26, consistent and a proven playoff performer (6.8 a year compared to Richard's 6.6 and 34 years of age)
They have promising young offensive D men already on the team in Voynov and Muzzin, and coming up they have McNabb, Forbort and Gravel who should match up well alongside them.
Their forward prospects are also pretty much across the board more impressive than what the Rangers currently boast.
I just keep wanting to believe that someday soon I will believe the Rangers franchise is being run more competently than the Kings, but so little that I see lends any credence to that belief.
And to make it even worse, the Flyers pull Hextall from the Kings organization, and he immediately starts preaching an organizational philosophy of patience with young players and building through the draft, straight out of the Kings playbook. I shudder at the thought of watching the Flyers become a Kings East, set up for years of success, while the Rangers seem headed in the opposite direction.
The inability of fielding a team with both is worthy of complaints.
And this team may, on paper, have top end talent but that top end talent stinks.
BroadwayBlues
KK24
I think the Rangers were doing a nice job of drafting/developing and having some patience before they went on that run in 2012.
OverTheCap
Registered User
- Jan 3, 2009
- 10,454
- 184
Trust me, I am very well aware of your second sentence.
So far as "we all want for this the Rangers," I am not so sure all fans want to build through the draft. I have seen an awful lot of posts defending Sather's recent moves, and saying stuff like "we don't draft well anyway," "the draft is a crapshoot," "there's more than one way to build a cup winner and it doesn't have to be through the draft," etc. Not sure if they truly feel this way or are just rationalizing, but is a little disturbing to see a Dark Ages mentality creep through some of the fanbase.
It's frustrating, because it finally seemed like we were heading in the right direction in terms of developing a homegrown core, and then he can't resist "going for the final piece that will put us over the top." He gets such bad tunnel vision with stars and big names, and rarely learns from his previous mistakes. I fully expect Dan Boyle to be a Ranger next year.
haveandare
Registered User
I don't disagree.
My point is just that it's real easy to say something when all of us have a 0% chance of making decisions and being held accountable for them. Sometimes, it's not as easy as "they should do X thing," sometimes you do X and find out you really needed Y or Z.
NYR94
Registered User
Sather's method is the laziest form of managing a hockey team there is. Let other teams draft, develop and find success with players (either through Stanley Cup wins or at least becoming stars), then sign them July 1st to come to NY and win nothing.
His plan--if it can even be called one--is to add the biggest name available. That's it. Big name from last year not working out? Get this year's.
Gaborik needs help scoring, add Nash.
Gaborik not scoring enough, trade Gaborik.
Nash needs help scoring, add St. Louis.
Nash not scoring enough...
The revolving door means no group of Rangers core players ever stays together for more than a few seasons. Smart, patient GMs understand that the best way to build a team that can contend for a number of consecutive years is to assemble a core group (mostly through the draft but some trades/signings can be involved) that you stick with. The Blackhawks will be contenders as long as Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Crawford are there. LA has Kopitar, Carter, Wiliams, Doughty and Quick. They're not going to win the Cup every year, but Bowman and Lombardi don't trade core, star players if they don't win it all one year. The days of dynasties are gone in a salary capped NHL. If you really have a good group that can be successful in the playoffs they're going to be in the mix again next year. They have faith in their players and are loyal, but also wise enough to make adjustments to the roster when needed.
Will this current Rangers' group be together a few years from now when those other contending teams are still intact? Probably not since the Rangers under Sather can not keep a group of players who are young or in their primes together for any substantial length of time. Are St. Louis and Richards going to be on the Rangers two years from now, or even one year from now?
How many skaters on this current team would you have faith in going forward as players who can be difference makers in the playoffs for the next 3-5 years and help you win a Stanley Cup?
McDonagh, Girardi and Staal are a good start on the defensive side. But the forward group is lacking. Stepan, the team's #1 center, wilts in the playoffs. Zuccarello, Pouliot and Brassard look better than they really are because Nash, Richards and St. Louis have been disappointing. Kreider has a small sample size but shows promise.
The offensive problems are compounded by the fact that these forwards, as a group, are not strong enough defensively or physically to be effective players in the playoffs when their offense disappears. If Nash played with the tenacity, physicality or defensive awareness that players like Dubinsky, Callahan and Anisimov did then his goal-scoring failures wouldn't be so amplified.
His plan--if it can even be called one--is to add the biggest name available. That's it. Big name from last year not working out? Get this year's.
Gaborik needs help scoring, add Nash.
Gaborik not scoring enough, trade Gaborik.
Nash needs help scoring, add St. Louis.
Nash not scoring enough...
The revolving door means no group of Rangers core players ever stays together for more than a few seasons. Smart, patient GMs understand that the best way to build a team that can contend for a number of consecutive years is to assemble a core group (mostly through the draft but some trades/signings can be involved) that you stick with. The Blackhawks will be contenders as long as Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Crawford are there. LA has Kopitar, Carter, Wiliams, Doughty and Quick. They're not going to win the Cup every year, but Bowman and Lombardi don't trade core, star players if they don't win it all one year. The days of dynasties are gone in a salary capped NHL. If you really have a good group that can be successful in the playoffs they're going to be in the mix again next year. They have faith in their players and are loyal, but also wise enough to make adjustments to the roster when needed.
Will this current Rangers' group be together a few years from now when those other contending teams are still intact? Probably not since the Rangers under Sather can not keep a group of players who are young or in their primes together for any substantial length of time. Are St. Louis and Richards going to be on the Rangers two years from now, or even one year from now?
How many skaters on this current team would you have faith in going forward as players who can be difference makers in the playoffs for the next 3-5 years and help you win a Stanley Cup?
McDonagh, Girardi and Staal are a good start on the defensive side. But the forward group is lacking. Stepan, the team's #1 center, wilts in the playoffs. Zuccarello, Pouliot and Brassard look better than they really are because Nash, Richards and St. Louis have been disappointing. Kreider has a small sample size but shows promise.
The offensive problems are compounded by the fact that these forwards, as a group, are not strong enough defensively or physically to be effective players in the playoffs when their offense disappears. If Nash played with the tenacity, physicality or defensive awareness that players like Dubinsky, Callahan and Anisimov did then his goal-scoring failures wouldn't be so amplified.
Ok makes sense.
What about people bring up situations where music and other performances have been rescheduled for play off games. Would not even rescheduling just one event have made a huge help to avoid the back to back? Things could have been done if the desire was there.
KingWantsCup
#FightLikeHell
Whenever I feel down about the Rangers I remind myself that Gorton is our next GM. He's our only glimmer of hope. The sooner he takes over the better.
Are a bunch of you insinuating that we have not built this team through the draft...like at all? B/c that is very much false
We started the year with Zuke, Kreider, Stepan, Girardi, Hank, Cally, Hagelin, Fast, Staal, Boyle, McD, Talbot....JT got significant time (more than Fast but we did start with Fast)
Those are a lot of guys who we either:
Drafted
Signed as undrafted and developed
Scouted and sought out via trade when they were prospects.
Miller and Allen both saw some time (especially Miller) and even Mcilrath saw some ice time (although I wouldn't count it)
The loss of top round picks bothers me but consider how late in the round those picks will be. It's not as bad as some act.
The only drafted players we lost were Dubs, Artie and Cally via trade. 3 players. We lost Sauer to a freak accident.
We have also lost 2 1sts
2 2nds
1 3rd
Assuming 3/5 (being generous) land then yea it sucks we lost 6 drafted players via trade. Though the 3 could be Stepan, Mcilrath and Miller. 3 young guys we have now in the top 2 rounds who are all under performing even more than Nash. Then again it could be another Kreider, Dubs or Sauer.
There is massive room to complain about the Nash trade b/c of how bad the PO's have been. Legendarily atrocious. But It's flat out false to act like we've completely failed to build through the draft.
We had 6/12 F spots filled by drafted/prospect players all year.
We had 3/6 D spots filled by drafted/prospect players all year (without even counting J. Moore who we scouted and traded for very young or Allen who only played a handful of games)
2/2 goalies were drafted/prospect players.
The problem has been our ability to surround our drafted guys with top end, talented players or at least complimentary players.
We started the year with Zuke, Kreider, Stepan, Girardi, Hank, Cally, Hagelin, Fast, Staal, Boyle, McD, Talbot....JT got significant time (more than Fast but we did start with Fast)
Those are a lot of guys who we either:
Drafted
Signed as undrafted and developed
Scouted and sought out via trade when they were prospects.
Miller and Allen both saw some time (especially Miller) and even Mcilrath saw some ice time (although I wouldn't count it)
The loss of top round picks bothers me but consider how late in the round those picks will be. It's not as bad as some act.
The only drafted players we lost were Dubs, Artie and Cally via trade. 3 players. We lost Sauer to a freak accident.
We have also lost 2 1sts
2 2nds
1 3rd
Assuming 3/5 (being generous) land then yea it sucks we lost 6 drafted players via trade. Though the 3 could be Stepan, Mcilrath and Miller. 3 young guys we have now in the top 2 rounds who are all under performing even more than Nash. Then again it could be another Kreider, Dubs or Sauer.
There is massive room to complain about the Nash trade b/c of how bad the PO's have been. Legendarily atrocious. But It's flat out false to act like we've completely failed to build through the draft.
We had 6/12 F spots filled by drafted/prospect players all year.
We had 3/6 D spots filled by drafted/prospect players all year (without even counting J. Moore who we scouted and traded for very young or Allen who only played a handful of games)
2/2 goalies were drafted/prospect players.
The problem has been our ability to surround our drafted guys with top end, talented players or at least complimentary players.
They beat one of the hottest teams in the entire league. A team they had two more points then for the season.
'Supposed'?
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
- 17,207
- 9,219
Where were those guys drafted? How many players in the world are on their level? Yet with all that we are just down 1 game to them. Maybe we are not as horrible as people make out?
yrrebbor
Registered User
I think its kind of funny how we all love Gorton. Yea he has success with the Bruins, but what has he done here?
Every good move made by the rangers --> Gorton's really starting to take over you can see it
Every bad move made by the rangers --> **** you Glenn retire or die already WE WANT GORTON!!!
Every good move made by the rangers --> Gorton's really starting to take over you can see it
Every bad move made by the rangers --> **** you Glenn retire or die already WE WANT GORTON!!!
haveandare
Registered User
Well, yeah. That's not completely baseless, really.
The fact is, nobody knows what is him, what is Sather, what is both, how much of a split of say or power there is, etc.
People tend to assume that the guy with a proven track record of recent success makes the good moves and the guy with a history of being lazy, stupid and short sighted for decades makes the bad moves.
Without knowing for sure, I don't think that's such an unreasonable line of thought.
bmoak
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2004
- 3,184
- 363
Even if Slats gets fired (hah) or retires, nothing will change as long as Dolan own the team and as long as Slat's cronies (Gorton, Clark, Schoenfeld) are running the show. Isn't Gorton in charge of pro scouting and telling Slats what players to target in trades and free agent signings? Do we blame him for telling Slats to get Nash or for trading Gaborik for a handful of magic beans or throwing MDZ away for Klein or filling out the roster with the likes of Pyatt and Asham? Our next GM!
A loss tomorrow and this thread will be very popular.
A win tomorrow and this thread fades away.
A win tomorrow and this thread fades away.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
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