Speculation: Fire Glen Sather

[silverfish]

Carton made a good point this morning I think. As to how it's 'strange' that Dolan is SO involved in the Knicks, and takes such a backseat to the Rangers. It is odd, in a way. Is it because the Rangers are on the backburner to the Knicks? Does Dolan just not give a **** anymore since we're in the playoffs every year?

Or is it because he trusts Sather a lot more than we do, and can't see passed his flaws?

Either way, it's interesting that he's so hands on when it comes to one organization, and not the other.

Which don't get me wrong, is a BLESSING for the Rangers, IMHO. Until the point where he's so laissez-faire, that it's hurting the team.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Carton made a good point this morning I think. As to how it's 'strange' that Dolan is SO involved in the Knicks, and takes such a backseat to the Rangers. It is odd, in a way. Is it because the Rangers are on the backburner to the Knicks? Does Dolan just not give a **** anymore since we're in the playoffs every year?

Or is it because he trusts Sather a lot more than we do, and can't see passed his flaws?

Either way, it's interesting that he's so hands on when it comes to one organization, and not the other.

Which don't get me wrong, is a BLESSING for the Rangers, IMHO. Until the point where he's so laissez-faire, that it's hurting the team.

I actually think Dolan could be considered a great hockey owner - oh my goodness, did I really just say that? He hires a hockey guy, gives him as much money as he possibly can - including eating some stupid contracts through buyouts - and stays completely out of his way. No meddling whatsoever.

This could be a perfect formula - if the hockey guy he's leaving alone was actually a good GM.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I actually think Dolan could be considered a great hockey owner - oh my goodness, did I really just say that? He hires a hockey guy, gives him as much money as he possibly can - including eating some stupid contracts through buyouts - and stays completely out of his way. No meddling whatsoever.

This could be a perfect formula - if the hockey guy he's leaving alone was actually a good GM.

Jersey. I know your a true fan, and you know your hockey, but Dolan's relationship with the Rangers can't be that simple.

I don't think that Dolan or any of his underling suits would let Sather have complete free reign of a $850 million asset of the Madison Square Garden Company.

The media, pundits, etc. say a lot of crap.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I don't think that Dolan or any of his underling suits would let Sather have complete free reign of a $850 million asset of the Madison Square Garden Company.

I do. I don't think there was any way that Sather would have taken the job in the first place. His ego is too big. And he was dealing with meddling ownership in Edmonton.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I do. I don't think there was any way that Sather would have taken the job in the first place. He's ego is too big. And he was dealing with meddling ownership in Edmonton.

I don't know Sather, so I don't know what is ego is like.

The fact is the Rangers have been through several owners and general managers since the 1970's, yet all of them have decided to build a mercenary army. It worked once with Messier in a very odd financial meltdown of one of the greatest teams ever assembled.

I am as angry as you at the **** show at MSG, but there is too much money and power at stake in that team, a very profitable team, so I doubt the scenario is simple.

 

[Raspewtin]

Being realistic, no one should ever expect their team to win. Realistically, there are 30 franchise of professional players, coaches, GMs, etc etc etc who all want to win the cup every single year. One of them does. One other one loses, but has a small accomplishment to hang their hat on by making the dance at all. The others all lose. Nobody's odds are good.

Look at our team and look at the Pens? Ok. The Rangers have a better defense and a better goalie. Their offense lacks the elite center talent that the Pens have, but has just as good, if not better depth in four lines. They're better in some ways and they're worse in other ways. Much like any playoff matchup, especially past the first round.

Another wasted year. The team sold their tickets. Again, that happens to every single team but one. What exactly is the implication behind all of this talk? Is this all some devious plot by players who don't want to win and management that doesn't want to win? It's not a devious plot, it's odds. 29 teams are full of losers at the end of every year. This Rangers team isn't a bad team. They're not executing this series, and it's killing them. Much like many of the other good teams that have been, and will be eliminated this year.

1 cup in 74 years. We're all very aware of that. That doesn't mean that nobody should ever have faith in their team and be excited going into the playoffs. For some people, this isn't something to get pissed off about or try to discourage others from enjoying. It's fun. It's entertainment. It's sport.

Can someone ****ing sticky this post ?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Can someone ****ing sticky this post ?

If it wasn't the same teams finishing near the same levels for specific decades, I would agree with you that it's a 30 team crapshoot.

 

[Carlos Ranger]

I actually think Dolan could be considered a great hockey owner - oh my goodness, did I really just say that? He hires a hockey guy, gives him as much money as he possibly can - including eating some stupid contracts through buyouts - and stays completely out of his way. No meddling whatsoever.

This could be a perfect formula - if the hockey guy he's leaving alone was actually a good GM.

Yeah, how do we know Dolan doesn't meddle though? How do we know he isn't the one who heard "Rick Nash former #1 overall pick and richard trophy winner" wants out of CBJ and then told Sather to get him no matter what? Dolan has influence, and I'm be willing to bet Sather might not be totally on board with every move he makes.

 

[Mikos87]

Yeah, how do we know Dolan doesn't meddle though? How do we know he isn't the one who heard "Rick Nash former #1 overall pick and richard trophy winner" wants out of CBJ and then told Sather to get him no matter what? Dolan has influence, and I'm be willing to bet Sather might not be totally on board with every move he makes.

From what I've heard and understand, Dolan has much much more sway with basketball, not just through his own volition, but his other business interest as well. He doesn't have that with hockey, and with the exception of wanting tough guys to dress, he stays out of hockey operations.

If there was one person in the Ranger brass that did not want John Tortorella to be fired, it was Dolan, and he let it happen because the hockey ops said it would be a good move. That move was based on players' exit interviews. The Ranger brass were going to keep Torts until he was thrown under the bus by a bevy of players.

The inmates run the asylum, not Dolan.

 

[RangerBoy]

The fans should be chanting, "Fire Sather," who is of course un-fire-able. This is an old song by now, but still a good one to reprise. During the nearly 14 years that Sather has steered the Rangers through their poor-to-mediocre-to-vaguely-promising stages, James Dolan has gone through six general managers/presidents of the Knicks.

The Rangers have not reached the Stanley Cup finals during that span, and Sather's biggest name acquisitions have flopped terribly for one reason or another. Before the NHL installed a hard salary cap, Sather could at least throw money at his own mistakes. Now he is pinned up against the payroll ceiling with Nash's $7.8 million-per-year cap hit after trading three character players and a first-round draft pick for the forward.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...ers-power-play-blame-sather-article-1.1785014

Not a big fan of Filip Bondy but he actually wrote something worth reading. Not all of it accurate. Two character players. Erixon is not a character player.

Sather sucks

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...ers-power-play-blame-sather-article-1.1785014

Not a big fan of Filip Bondy but he actually wrote something worth reading. Not all of it accurate. Two character players. Erixon is not a character player.

Sather sucks

I've read posts not only on these boards, but also in this exact thread that were a deeper analysis of both sides of the coin of this issue than that article.

In regard to reading material, I found a peer-reviewed book on Amazon called Pay Dirt. I'm going to check if it's at the local library, so I haven't read it, but here's an overview for it:

Why would a Japanese millionaire want to buy the Seattle Mariners baseball team, when he has admitted that he has never played in or even seen a baseball game? Cash is the answer: major league baseball, like professional football, basketball, and hockey, is now big business with the potential to bring millions of dollars in profits to owners. Not very long ago, however, buying a sports franchise was a hazardous investment risked only by die-hard fans wealthy enough to lose parts of fortunes made in other businesses. What forces have changed team ownership from sports-fan folly to big-business savvy? Why has The Wall Street Journal become popular reading in pro sports locker rooms? And why are sports pages now dominated by economic clashes between owners and players, cities with franchises and cities without them, leagues and players' unions, and team lawyers and players' lawyers? In answering these questions, James Quirk and Rodney Fort have written the most complete book on the business and economics of professional sports, past and present.

Pay Dirt offers a wealth of information and analysis on the reserve clause, salary determination, competitive balance in sports leagues, the market for franchises, tax sheltering, arenas and stadiums, and rival leagues. The authors present an abundance of historical material, much of it new, including team ownership histories and data on attendance, TV revenue, stadium and arena contracts, and revenues and costs. League histories, team statistics, stories about players and owners, and sports lore of all kinds embellish the work. Quirk and Fort are writing for anyone interested in sports in the 1990s: players, players' agents, general managers, sportswriters, and, most of all, sports fans.

 

[mike14]

I'm going to go out on a potentially unpopular limb and say that the nash trade was not the problem, all the subsequent ones were.

After 2012 it was pretty obvious that we needed more fire power up front and nash made sense. He along with gabby gave us a pretty good 1 - 2 punch, especially when you add in Richards who was coming off a 25 goal season and 15 pts in 20 playoff games. There was also Captain Cally and CK to round out the top 6.

We came out sluggish in the shortened season, richards clearly wasn't ready (no excuses it was poor by him) and the team struggled, but we only gave the 'big 3' 35 games in an already compromised season before blowing it up (again). When we traded gabby we were 17-15-3 and the big three had scored 27g 41a 68pts in 35 games. They aren't great numbers but they aren't terrible, especially when you add in nash with a new team and Richards sucking.

Instead of accepting the loss of a shortened season in order to better evaluate what we had, slats panicked and traded gabby for depth and then futures for Clowe in order to try and get that 1-2 punch back. He's now done the same thing with MSL.

Instead of trying to force the lockout season he should of waited, tried to get some depth in the off season and if it didn't look like it was working this season, use the TDL to offload gabby and cally for some youth with the understanding that richards was going as well and it was time for a retool.

In summary: trading fir nash good (even with woeful playoff hindsight), everything since bad.

I typed all this on my phone so sorry for formatting and mistakes

 

[bathgate]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...ers-power-play-blame-sather-article-1.1785014

Not a big fan of Filip Bondy but he actually wrote something worth reading. Not all of it accurate. Two character players. Erixon is not a character player.

Sather sucks

Spot on article.Basically what I have argued along with True Blue SBOB, Ranger Boy etc. The Nash and MSL trades will lead the Rangers in a downward spiral.Columbus is a team on the rise. as will the Isles. Sign Staal ,amnesty Richards, look to see if there is a taker for Stepan. We will be stuck with Nash because of his low value. Maybe with a decent 2015 regular season, he will be tradeable at the trade deadline

 

[RangerBoy]

Hextall wants to change the Flyers way of operating the team

Holmgren had a conversation with Hextall this season during an AHL game.

“I can remember watching a Phantoms game with him earlier in the year and he said, 'How many draft picks do we have playing in this game?’” Holmgren recalled.

“Honest question, right? I think I said, 'Four?' [Nick] Cousins was there and we were counting free-agent guys that we brought in, not young guys or older guys that we brought in from other organizations.

“I think we had four or five. He just mentioned that, and the team that we were playing against that night had 12. So we've got to get better at that. He mentioned it today that we have to keep our draft picks and we've got to do a better job in that regard and he's right, we do.”

For years, the Flyers traded away second-round draft picks like they were free lollipops. Which is why Andreas Nodl was the last one of any consequence who actually played for them.

The Flyers' draft record in the second round is nothing to be proud of since so many of them have been cast aside.

“The other thing that we have to get better at is development,” Holmgren said. “[Hextall] has gone out of his way to help with that development side. In the limited amount of time he's been here, he has hired a guy to work with the forwards that we drafted in our organization, not playing for the Phantoms, but in our organization.

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/hextall-developing-prospects-huge-priority

How many Rangers picks played in the AHL this season? Its more than 4. The AHL team is littered with overage junior and college free agents. The Rangers need to get better in that area.

 

[OverTheCap]

Never thought I'd compliment Ron Hextall since he was always one of my most hated players, but his vision is exactly what I'd want for this team. He is making a commitment to build through the draft and is reluctant to trade young players for older players. Our organizational philosophy has been the opposite of what Hextall is envisioning for the Flyers.

The fact that other organizations are emphasizing and embracing drafting and development while the Rangers have strayed away from it will come back to bite us in the ass someday. It won't be Sather's problem by the time it happens, he'll have retired and left his successor with a mess. I know plenty of fans don't care and have openly said they are only concerned about the here and now and not the future. But it's very hard for me to plug my ears and say "I don't care" while so many other teams are preparing for the future and the Rangers continue to spin their wheels in "win now" mode although they aren't close to winning a damn thing.

 

[Oak]

Random question about Dolan and MSG that maybe you guys could answer for me.

Dolan owns MSG. So who is at fault with the schedule the Rangers have played? The NHL? Dolan?

Maybe Dolan didn't think we would make the 2nd round so he booked all of these events that are causing us problems? I've read people saying that music and other events can be postponed, and have been in the past. Why wouldn't Dolan do that to help the Rangers? Is that out of his power?

 

[Oak]

Never thought I'd compliment Ron Hextall since he was always one of my most hated players, but his vision is exactly what I'd want for this team. He is making a commitment to build through the draft and is reluctant to trade young players for older players. Our organizational philosophy has been the opposite of what Hextall is envisioning for the Flyers.

We all want this for the Rangers. Not sure if you've read much of this thread, but the whole point is that it will never happen as long as Sather, and possibly Dolan are in charge of the Rangers.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Never thought I'd compliment Ron Hextall since he was always one of my most hated players, but his vision is exactly what I'd want for this team. He is making a commitment to build through the draft and is reluctant to trade young players for older players. Our organizational philosophy has been the opposite of what Hextall is envisioning for the Flyers.

The fact that other organizations are emphasizing and embracing drafting and development while the Rangers have strayed away from it will come back to bite us in the ass someday. It won't be Sather's problem by the time it happens, he'll have retired and left his successor with a mess. I know plenty of fans don't care and have openly said they are only concerned about the here and now and not the future. But it's very hard for me to plug my ears and say "I don't care" while so many other teams are preparing for the future and the Rangers continue to spin their wheels in "win now" mode although they aren't close to winning a damn thing.

Nearly all the successful teams develop major roster pieces through the draft and their system, and supplement them with targeted acquisitions. The Rangers pretty much do the opposite.

This stuff about how the Rangers will never pick in the top 5, so its not worth concentrating on building through the draft. Its BS -- a cop out.

Incidentally, when the Rangers did build a solid portion of their team through the draft (led by Callahan and Dubinsky), they experienced the most success in Sather's tenure. He just cant help himself from making the big splash that inevitably blows up in his face. Its happening faster and faster with each big ticket acquisition.

 

[Doctyl]

Random question about Dolan and MSG that maybe you guys could answer for me.

Dolan owns MSG. So who is at fault with the schedule the Rangers have played? The NHL? Dolan?

Maybe Dolan didn't think we would make the 2nd round so he booked all of these events that are causing us problems? I've read people saying that music and other events can be postponed, and have been in the past. Why wouldn't Dolan do that to help the Rangers? Is that out of his power?

I think both are at fault. Dolan booked MSG pretty tight but there was no reason the rangers had to play 5 games in 7 days. The scheduling for the rangers has been attrocious so far.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think both are at fault. Dolan booked MSG pretty tight but there was no reason the rangers had to play 5 games in 7 days. The scheduling for the rangers has been attrocious so far.

Again, this team avoids contact/punishment like the plague, so how tired can they really be? Blaming the schedule is just an excuse -- and a poor one at that.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think going 0-3 on the power play in the first period of Game 2 had more of an effect than the scheduling did.

 

[KingWantsCup]

Again, this team avoids contact/punishment like the plague, so how tired can they really be? Blaming the schedule is just an excuse -- and a poor one at that.

Name a player who you would bet money on performing to his average PPG pace over a period of 5 games in 7 days.

This schedule is awful for even the most conditioned of NHL players and has been an obvious and immense factor.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Random question about Dolan and MSG that maybe you guys could answer for me.

Dolan owns MSG. So who is at fault with the schedule the Rangers have played? The NHL? Dolan?

Maybe Dolan didn't think we would make the 2nd round so he booked all of these events that are causing us problems? I've read people saying that music and other events can be postponed, and have been in the past. Why wouldn't Dolan do that to help the Rangers? Is that out of his power?

There is no way in a frozen over hell, that MSG would consider refusing money to book the garden in order to keep "maybe" slots open for Rangers playoffs. Money in hand dude, money in hand. NO business would do that. It's like hotel rooms. Full capacity all the time is the goal.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Again, this team avoids contact/punishment like the plague, so how tired can they really be? Blaming the schedule is just an excuse -- and a poor one at that.

Physical contact is the most tiring aspect of contact sports. More than skating. It's a drain. Your whole body is either tensing up in anticipation of absorbing the blow, and/or being shocked by one you didn't see coming. It's has got to be exhausting in the NHL.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Name a player who you would bet money on performing to his average PPG pace over a period of 5 games in 7 days.

This schedule is awful for even the most conditioned of NHL players and has been an obvious and immense factor.

Name a player? Thats quite the non-sequitur.

The Rangers have had trouble scoring goals and on the PP for several playoffs in a row now. But yea, the latest excuse is the schedule. Give me a break.