Euro: Final - Spain v. England - July 14

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Biggest problem is you take young players coached by the likes of Pep, Arteta, Klopp or Ancelotti and you expect them to win with a coach like Southgate. It's like expecting a bus driver to win a F1 race albeit in the best car.

There's another problem there though. You got guys coached by Pep and Klopp to do one thing, and those are pretty intense systems, and then you got a national team which could play like Pep or like Klopp or completely differently and you have a few practice sessions every few months to drill it. It's never gonna be like a club team and any complex modern system is challenging in that environment.

If there's one accusation that can rightfully be aimed at Southgate is that he never found his best lineup. And that's the same criticism I had of Jogi Löw in the last 5-6 years of his tenure. I don't think you can win an international tournament, if you don't have a lineup where you have a settled core. You can make a switch here or there based on form and injury, but you gotta have an idea of 7-8 core guys and how they should play together.

Spain played the exact lineup from the Euro Final in the friendly vs Brazil in March and they had several more matches last season where you had all the significant Euro contributors playing together (except for Yamal obviously). Southgate meanwhile has been meddling with his lineups and structure throughout.

However, I think with England that's always going to be a problem because the media will push for in-form players and a manager who sticks with established players will get ripped for it, see how his selection of Kane is treated now. The problem is that if you want, you can attack a manager from all sorts of different angles and if the team isn't hoisting trophies there's no shortage of people in England who want to attack the national team manager.

 

[Rob]

What a great turnaround for the Spanish national team. 18 months ago they were knocked out of the World Cup by Morocco. Now they are Euro champions. Very possible that they are on the verge of another golden generation.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Gonna be absolutely wild that at best the third best (and IMO more like 7th or 8th) twenty-first century Spanish midfielder is gonna be the only one to win a Ballon d'Or

 

[bluesfan94]

Gonna be absolutely wild that at best the third best (and IMO more like 7th or 8th) twenty-first century Spanish midfielder is gonna be the only one to win a Ballon d'Or

This is the power of Messi and Ronaldo. I find it difficult to evaluate Rodri, tbh. He's won so much for club and country this year and is clearly very important for both, but I agree that I don't rate him as much as Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, and Fabregas. And then there's Xabi Alonso and Cazorla and Silva.

God damn, putting it in this perspective, Spain churns out talent in all facets of the midfield. And I didn't even mention Javi Martinez, Juan Mata, Koke, and Thiago

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

This is the power of Messi and Ronaldo. I find it difficult to evaluate Rodri, tbh. He's won so much for club and country this year and is clearly very important for both, but I agree that I don't rate him as much as Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, and Fabregas. And then there's Xabi Alonso and Cazorla and Silva.

God damn, putting it in this perspective, Spain churns out talent in all facets of the midfield. And I didn't even mention Javi Martinez, Juan Mata, Koke, and Thiago

Xavi and Iniesta are absolutely indisputably above Rodri, and then I would - without thinking insanely hard about it, so maybe if I thought it would be different - take Busquets, Cesc, Xabi Alonso, and David Silva over him.

The power of Messi and Ronaldo, f***. Xavi and Iniesta would almost definitely have two each if not for them.

 

[bluesfan94]

Xavi and Iniesta are absolutely indisputably above Rodri, and then I would - without thinking insanely hard about it, so maybe if I thought it would be different - take Busquets, Cesc, Xabi Alonso, and David Silva over him.

The power of Messi and Ronaldo, f***. Xavi and Iniesta would almost definitely have two each if not for them.

Yeah, I think Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, and Cesc are pretty clear. I think you could make an argument with Xabi and Silva.

 

[Karterthadon]

Cesc is nowhere near Silva.

 

[Albatros]

I can't see a definitive argument for Busquets over Rodri. Rodri is the more complete player and thus also a significant scoring threat besides covering a lot of ground in the lower midfield. Cesc (or David Silva, obviously) on the other hand wasn't nearly as good down low.

 

[Power Man]

 

[lindros07]

Fabregas at his physical peak was and is the third best Spanish midfielder of the century.

 

[lindros07]

I can't see a definitive argument for Busquets over Rodri. Rodri is the more complete player and thus also a significant scoring threat besides covering a lot of ground in the lower midfield. Cesc (or David Silva, obviously) on the other hand wasn't nearly as good down low.

Rodri is more complete, but Fabregas was better in numbers, and technique, skill, without comparison, Fabregas his Peak reach de Bruyne peak numbers and he was not a number 10 ( Attacking Midfielder)
, In 2009/10 he scored 19 goals (15 in Premier league) And 19 assists in 39 games for Arsenal, despite an serious injury in March That left him out of the 6 final games At the end of the Premier league season, and before the injury he had scored 4 goals in the last 5 games in the Premier League, He was injured in the 2:2 against Barcelona where in the game itself he scored one of the goals.

 

[les Habs]

Seems to me that Rodri is underrated here as compared to some of the other guys. I’d definitely put him ahead of Cesc. IMO to have Rodri lower than 5th is wrong and possibly even lower than 4th is wrong.

 

[Albatros]

Fabregas at his physical peak was and is the third best Spanish midfielder of the century.

Mendieta dragged Valencia to back-to-back Champions League finals.

 

[lindros07]

Mendieta dragged Valencia to back-to-back Champions League finals.

In the 21st century, the peak of mendieta was in the late 90s, Even though it was his first season in this millennium, 2000/01 wasn't bad, 14 goals in 47 games, but His peak was in the 90s.

Seems to me that Rodri is underrated here as compared to some of the other guys. I’d definitely put him ahead of Cesc. IMO to have Rodri lower than 5th is wrong and possibly even lower than 4th is wrong.

Put Peak Fabregas in Manchester City, and he will score 20 goals a year if they leave him close to the penalty area, Fabregas in an Arsenal that was the third force in English football scored 15 goals and 15 assists in the Premier League, Before the injury that left him out of the last 6 Premier League games, he scored 4 goals in 5 games, His average this season was that of a Forward. Fabregas was of a much higher level than Rodri. Rodri's best season, which was 2023/24, in terms of numbers, is comparable to Fabregas' last season at a high level in 2016/17, 7 goals and 13 assists in 37, in 23/24 Rodri in 50 games score 9 goals And Distributed 13 Assists. Rodri is very good, but he doesn't hold a candle to the best Fabregas.

 

[luiginb]

Offense isn't the only thing about football.

 

[AlanHUK]

There's another problem there though. You got guys coached by Pep and Klopp to do one thing, and those are pretty intense systems, and then you got a national team which could play like Pep or like Klopp or completely differently and you have a few practice sessions every few months to drill it. It's never gonna be like a club team and any complex modern system is challenging in that environment.

If there's one accusation that can rightfully be aimed at Southgate is that he never found his best lineup. And that's the same criticism I had of Jogi Löw in the last 5-6 years of his tenure. I don't think you can win an international tournament, if you don't have a lineup where you have a settled core. You can make a switch here or there based on form and injury, but you gotta have an idea of 7-8 core guys and how they should play together.

Spain played the exact lineup from the Euro Final in the friendly vs Brazil in March and they had several more matches last season where you had all the significant Euro contributors playing together (except for Yamal obviously). Southgate meanwhile has been meddling with his lineups and structure throughout.

However, I think with England that's always going to be a problem because the media will push for in-form players and a manager who sticks with established players will get ripped for it, see how his selection of Kane is treated now. The problem is that if you want, you can attack a manager from all sorts of different angles and if the team isn't hoisting trophies there's no shortage of people in England who want to attack the national team manager.

Our media is generally moronic I can agree with that 100%

But Kane starting wouldn't have been a problem if Gordon was starting, because it gives Kane that runner beyond that he thrives with.

With Saka and Foden starting Watkins would have been the perfect fit, his movement would have created space for them.

Instead Southgate picked the worst possible combination of attacking players who don't compliment each other in the slightest

Defensively he had Gomez who could have played LB (as he did for most of the season at club level) and refused to do it because he decided an out of form RB would be a better fit.

Walker was awful all tournament, yet he refused to use TAA in his actual position, and tried to shoehorn him into a position he doesn't play.

Southgate has a level of arrogance that's completely unmatched, despite it never working against good teams he kept trying to do the same thing over and over because in his mind it's the right thing to do despite it having cost his team time and time again.

 

[John Price]

 

[Evilo]

Damn

 

[Prntscrn]

England should offer Klopp the throne to take the position

 

[Jussi]

Gareth Southgate steps down as England manager after Euro 2024 final defeat to Spain

Gareth Southgate was appointed England manager in 2016; England reached first World Cup semi-final for 28 years in 2018 and first major mens final in 55 years at Euro 2020 during his tenure; FA says process for appointing Southgates successor is under way

www.skysports.com

 

[PeteWorrell]

England should offer Klopp the throne to take the position

If Klopp left Liverpool because he no longer had the energy for the job, it would be weird for him to take the England job.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Our media is generally moronic I can agree with that 100%

But Kane starting wouldn't have been a problem if Gordon was starting, because it gives Kane that runner beyond that he thrives with.

With Saka and Foden starting Watkins would have been the perfect fit, his movement would have created space for them.

Instead Southgate picked the worst possible combination of attacking players who don't compliment each other in the slightest

Defensively he had Gomez who could have played LB (as he did for most of the season at club level) and refused to do it because he decided an out of form RB would be a better fit.

Walker was awful all tournament, yet he refused to use TAA in his actual position, and tried to shoehorn him into a position he doesn't play.

Southgate has a level of arrogance that's completely unmatched, despite it never working against good teams he kept trying to do the same thing over and over because in his mind it's the right thing to do despite it having cost his team time and time again.

And there's 50 other guys who would suggest a different lineup again. I think again his biggest failure is to not actually settle on a lineup, to not make some of those harsh decisions and live with them. He's playing everyone out of position because he's trying to get his best eleven guys on the pitch but that's not how it works. It's also why he kept meddling with formations as well.

I think Southgate probably at the end of the day tried too hard not to upset anyone and ended up upsetting everyone instead.

 

[Karterthadon]

I think Southgate probably at the end of the day tried too hard not to upset anyone and ended up upsetting everyone instead.

Ya, international football is mostly about managing ego's, the more stars you have, the harder the job becomes.

 

[bluesfan94]

If Klopp left Liverpool because he no longer had the energy for the job, it would be weird for him to take the England job.

I think international manager requires less energy than club manager.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I think international manager requires less energy than club manager.

The whole thing is kinda far-fetched either way. Klopp's name just gets thrown around because it's an easy way to generate clicks.