Euro: Final - Spain v. England - July 14

[les Habs]

Olmo should have won something for sure. He was great as a sub and he was great as a starter after Pedri went down to injury. He also had that goal clearance to help seal the win.

Agreed. As I said after Pedri was injured, I think Olmo fits better for what De La Fuente was looking for. I think Pedri going out injured helped Spain in the end.

 

[Ceremony]

f***ing inject a quivering Pickford into my veins. I'm not sick of seeing him yet and I don't think I ever will be.

 

[Evilo]

Honestly, I think they gave him Player of the Tournament to try to get him over the line for the Ballon d’Or

My thinking too.
Hence why I gave the City argument.
And that's disgusting.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

All I'm going to say is that the better team won. England were lucky to even be in the finals. Please let this be the end of Southgate.

Don't think Rodri deserved Player of the Tournament either. Olmo for sure.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

For me is Olmo too, great performance.
I don't like him much but Fabian was playing like a star, clearly this set up brings the best out of him

 

[maclean]

And finally, has Spain asked for permission to play Yamal after 11 p.m local time Or are they planning to sub him off before that or break the law?

According to German law, underage persons are not allowed to work after 11. So maybe some police officer , sworn to serve the law, will drag him off the pitch at that time But seriously, most likely Spain will have to pay the 30 000 € fine, if even that for breaking the law.

Wait, this actually happened.. I joked in the pub that it was his bedtime...

 

[AlanHUK]

Fully deserved win for Spain. Easily the best team of this tournament.

Looked for a minute like we might be able to shithouse it, but as soon as we equalised we went back to sitting off, and the next set of subs were going to be Trippier and Gallagher on before we conceded again. Set up entirely not to lose which when going again such quality opposition was never going to work.

 

[cgf]

Agreed. As I said after Pedri was injured, I think Olmo fits better for what De La Fuente was looking for. I think Pedri going out injured helped Spain in the end.

See! Toni was just making sure that if we lost, we lost to the eventual champs. You're welcome...

 

[1865]

I'm not even mad, Spain were much better throughout the entire tournament and are a deserved winner.

We had a chance though, after we scored. There was a minute or two after the equaliser where they were reeling and we could have pushed for two. But no, Gareth "life preserver in a jacuzzi" Southgate sat us back with obvious results.

I cannot bear what he's done to such a talented team. We had the Bundesliga top scorer, we had La Liga's 4th top scorer and best player, we had the best player and three of the top five scorers from the Prem and produced a team with an xG lower of 0.87pg. Finals are great and his stat line is better than anything gone before, but this group of players can win tournaments and he's never going to get us over the line. We got where we got in this tournament with individual brilliance, not managerial skill.

I can't wait to see how this team performs with a new manager, hopefully we get someone who has more tactical nous than my Nan.

Honestly, I think they gave him Player of the Tournament to try to get him over the line for the Ballon d’Or

I'm not sure that makes any sense. The awards are given by different people.

 

[1865]

Spain looked like the best team in the tournament very early on, had the only perfect record in the toughest group, and came through big teams in Germany, France and England to win it. Couldn't have possibly been a more deserving winner. Also very happy that the cowardly football played by either France or England did not pay off.

I want to disagree with you, but you're dead right. Anti-football didn't win, and that's ultimately a good thing.

England consider Germany their main rivals and almost everything within the England setup is viewed through an anti-German lens. It'd be a huge risk for everyone involved given how massive the pressure would be. But even beyond the rivalry, it's always risk to take a job for a nation that is not your own, especially at a big nation. The FA would be reluctant to offer it, the manager would be reluctant to take it.

But in any event, it's an immensely difficult job for anyone given that quite apparently nothing but a tournament title is sufficient for the public. Who comes out of the England job with their reputation enhanced?

I think this is a little outdated, football's come a long way. England would absolutely hire a German manager nowadays. Maybe not in the 90's, but today they would - especially if Klopp wanted it.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

England consider Germany their main rivals and almost everything within the England setup is viewed through an anti-German lens. It'd be a huge risk for everyone involved given how massive the pressure would be. But even beyond the rivalry, it's always risk to take a job for a nation that is not your own, especially at a big nation. The FA would be reluctant to offer it, the manager would be reluctant to take it.

But in any event, it's an immensely difficult job for anyone given that quite apparently nothing but a tournament title is sufficient for the public. Who comes out of the England job with their reputation enhanced?

England should just stop seeing themselves as some kind of a superpower and hire the best man available.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I'm not sure that makes any sense. The awards are given by different people.

They are indeed. This award is given by a group of ex-coaches. My thinking is that there’s an understanding that Rodri has been the “unsung hero” etc. etc. and so by giving him this individual award they can juice up his bona fides to have a good Ballon d’Or narrative.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I think this is a little outdated, football's come a long way. England would absolutely hire a German manager nowadays. Maybe not in the 90's, but today they would - especially if Klopp wanted it.

And he'd be stupid to want it. Hyper-expectant public significantly overrating their player material. Media full of pundits and journos who did in fact have their formative years in the 80s and 90s and have those attitudes. They're happy to throw one of their own in front of the bus, so clearly they wouldn't hesitate a second to go after a foreigner.

Klopp won one league title in 9 years at Liverpool, two in 7 at Dortmund. Plenty of losses in finals and second places. When you have influential guys on TV say stuff like making the final in 2021 was okay, but now only a trophy is good enough then that's pretty inane. And yeah you might say Klopp will have them play better football than before, but if the draw for once is unkind and they'll get a top nation that's peaking in the QF and go out then, they won't care.

There just isn't a ton of upside for a top manager in taking the England job.

 

[Incubajerks]

I believe that if GS is replaced it will be very unlikely that the new coach will do better.

 

[gary69]

I'm not an England fan so I hope they keep Southgate.
If they wanted to try to really unlock their potential though I think Jurgen Klopp would be the best choice.

Lineker also suggested they go after Klopp. As for whether there's any upside for him, of course he'd become an even bigger legend in England than he alredy if he led them to a tournament win.

Even if he fails with the England team, he'd most likely would get plenty of manager offers from top clubs.

The problem seems to be the timing, if he really insists taking a year off and counts the Real Madrid job being available after next season. Hard for the England job beating that opportunity.

Especially as he could still have a chance to manage Germany after when his RM stint would come to an end.

Lineker mentioned that perhaps it's time to move on from Harry Kane, thinking back the time when his own legs started to go at age where Kane almost is now, and retairing from NT aged 32.

 

[Savant]

I believe that if GS is replaced it will be very unlikely that the new coach will do better.

From a results standpoint, of course. Southgate is on paper the most successful England manager of all time; but that doesn’t mean he should stay in the job.

I don’t think it’s outrageous to think there is another coach that can maximize that talent better. Southgate’s rigid tactics are the only think keeping a ceiling on the England talent.

Lineker also suggested they go after Klopp. As for whether there's any upside for him, of course he'd become an even bigger legend in England than he alredy if he led them to a tournament win.

Even if he fails with the England team, he'd most likely would get plenty of manager offers from top clubs.

The problem seems to be the timing, if he really insists taking a year off and counts the Real Madrid job being available after next season. Hard for the England job beating that opportunity.

Especially as he could still have a chance to manage Germany after when his RM stint would come to an end.

Lineker mentioned that perhaps it's time to move on from Harry Kane, thinking back the time when his own legs started to go at age where Kane almost is now, and retairing from NT aged 32.

I said this weeks ago. If you are going to play a turgid counterattack for most of the game especially, you can’t have Kane leading the line. It’s not like England don’t have the runners either. But again Southgate going to stick to his guys and make the same tactical errors. The ironic thing here is Southgate had no idea how to utilize the player who is BY FAR their best playmaker, because they were afraid of his defense at right back; and Walker was getting cooked defensively all tournament especially in the final.

Yeah the results papered over the cracks, but they were a Hail Mary bicycle kick away from going out to Slovakia. But winning puts the blinders on.

 

[Incubajerks]

From a results standpoint, of course. Southgate is on paper the most successful England manager of all time; but that doesn’t mean he should stay in the job.

I don’t think it’s outrageous to think there is another coach that can maximize that talent better. Southgate’s rigid tactics are the only think keeping a ceiling on the England talent.


I said this weeks ago. If you are going to play a turgid counterattack for most of the game especially, you can’t have Kane leading the line. It’s not like England don’t have the runners either. But again Southgate going to stick to his guys and make the same tactical errors. Yeah the results papered over the cracks, but they were a Hail Mary bicycle kick away from going out to Slovakia. But winning puts the blinders on

58 years without a victory, I don't think it can always be the coach's fault.

 

[Savant]

58 years without a victory, I don't think it can always be the coach's fault.

Only one team wins every year. This shit is hard. Not that I care about England, but you can’t tell me that England don’t have the personnel to play more front foot/more advanced tactics than they’ve shown. Maybe the conversation should be “do we want to play more front foot” - if so, Southgate isn’t the answer

 

[gary69]

Mamadarshvili, Akanji, Guehi, Kimmich,Cucurella - F.Ruiz, Kroos - Olmo, Yamal, Williams - Gakpo

According to the article, this All star line-up is based on Opta stats, which are detailed for each player individually.

Of course an argument can be made for other players instead, but none of these players had a bad tournament, that much is clear.

Who was the team of Euro 2024? Williams, Yamal, Fabian, Guehi, Olmo, Gakpo

 

[gary69]

They are indeed. This award is given by a group of ex-coaches. My thinking is that there’s an understanding that Rodri has been the “unsung hero” etc. etc. and so by giving him this individual award they can juice up his bona fides to have a good Ballon d’Or narrative.

These are the guys who chose the player of tournament. Bit surprised that there wasn't a single German amongst them.

Fabio Capello, Ioan Lupescu, Michael O'Neill, David Moyes, Aljoša Asanović, Rafael Benítez, Avram Grant, Packie Bonner, Frank de Boer, Ole Gunnar Solskjær, Aitor Karanka, Jean-Francois Domergue

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Given how Southgate set his team up and starting Kane every match, do you think any midfielders left off the squad would have been a better fit? Obviously Rice and Foden and Gallagher were better during the club season, but would Grealish and/or Maddison have been a better fit and make the team a little more dynamic?

I wouldn't have selected either of them, but I wonder if anything would mattered.

 

[Jack Straw]

Given how Southgate set his team up and starting Kane every match, do you think any midfielders left off the squad would have been a better fit? Obviously Rice and Foden and Gallagher were better during the club season, but would Grealish and/or Maddison have been a better fit and make the team a little more dynamic?

I wouldn't have selected either of them, but I wonder if anything would mattered.

I guess I’m biased but it’s hard to imagine that Maddison wouldn’t have added some playmaking abillity in the midfield.

 

[bossram]

This really was not that close. Spain were in control for almost the entire match. The best, most dominant team of a major tournament in recent history deservedly won. 7-0-0 with wins over France, Germany, Italy, Croatia, and England.

It's astonishing England were even in the final given how poorly they played, even with the butter soft bracket they were handed. Time to turn the national team over to the younger players with a new vision behind them.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Only one team wins every year. This shit is hard. Not that I care about England, but you can’t tell me that England don’t have the personnel to play more front foot/more advanced tactics than they’ve shown. Maybe the conversation should be “do we want to play more front foot” - if so, Southgate isn’t the answer

They do, but it doesn't mean they'd have better results necessarily. Part of the problem with England is the players are just so over-hyped. There's good players for sure, but there's 5-6 nations in Europe and another couple outside Europe that can put together a first team with comparable talent. Having players who looked really good in some Premiership games doesn't mean they're all Ballon D'Or candidates which is what it sounds like when you listen to those British pundits talk.

 

[luiginb]

They do, but it doesn't mean they'd have better results necessarily. Part of the problem with England is the players are just so over-hyped. There's good players for sure, but there's 5-6 nations in Europe and another couple outside Europe that can put together a first team with comparable talent. Having players who looked really good in some Premiership games doesn't mean they're all Ballon D'Or candidates which is what it sounds like when you listen to those British pundits talk.

Biggest problem is you take young players coached by the likes of Pep, Arteta, Klopp or Ancelotti and you expect them to win with a coach like Southgate. It's like expecting a bus driver to win a F1 race albeit in the best car.