Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?

[Vector]

Honest question but who are recent examples of undrafted college dmen who became anything more than bottom pairing dmen?

Off the top of my head it’s Tanev and Krug and even they were signed like a decade ago

Not saying that the Canucks shouldn’t be all over a free decent dman prospect but I’m not holding my breath on one developing into a decent top 4 dman

Nick Blanckenberg was looking very good for the Blue Jackets before his injury. I’ll put together a big list later if someone else doesn’t.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Looks like we are "Living on a Prayer" for our next RHD

 

[rypper]

A while back, probably after the Canucks went through an entire draft without selecting a defenseman, Jackson Mcdonald (half jokingly) suggested the team should spend one whole draft only taking RH defensemen.

 

[rypper]

I was thinking about this the other day and wondered how much of a factor, if at all, it might be.

Where players are acquired from and if it has an effect on their play. It might be nothing and a player is who they are.

I was thinking as an example, you have a player like Connor Garland, who came from an absolute dumpster fire in Arizona. They have no expectations of winning, there might be a strong losing culture there. He comes to Vancouver and it's more of the same, so he's not going to go out of his way to change things, just slide back into how most of his career has been.

But you take a player who's spent time with a winning organization, or at least an organization that has structure and a winning environment, sets expectations for their players, and have them come in and rub off on the team changing the culture.

Three examples that came to mind are Bear, Schenn, and Miller.

Bear came from Carolina, an organization that has become one like I described, to be modeled after. I recall in his first game here someone gave up on the play because it was close to the end of the period and he stood there like "What the f*** guys?"

Miller came from Tampa, one of the most winning organizations of the last few years, but even he seems pretty beat down by the Canucks. Or maybe that was always his attitude stemming from the NY Rangers.

Schenn is a guy who also came back to us from Tampa, but is an example of a guy who has that winning attitude regardless of where he plays. It's built in him, doesnt' know how to be another way and expects the same from his teammates.

Maybe there's something to it, especially for a rebuilding team or a team looking to change it's culture, to prioritize players in trades or free agency, from winning or better teams, then to pluck pieces from loser teams.

 

[Nucker101]

A while back, probably after the Canucks went through an entire draft without selecting a defenseman, Jackson Mcdonald (half jokingly) suggested the team should spend one whole draft only taking RH defensemen.

I’d say focus on C/D, it’s becoming more and more obvious that it’s easier to find quality wingers in both free agency and the trade market than it is to find quality dmen/centers.

 

[Gstank]

College UFA are nothing more then depth pieces until they prove otherwise. To say Livingstone is going to be a top 4 dman right out fo college is absurd. Johansson has a much better chance of being that next season

 

[Peter Griffin]

I’d say focus on C/D, it’s becoming more and more obvious that it’s easier to find quality wingers in both free agency and the trade market than it is to find quality dmen/centers.

That to me is why it's a little concerning that this management group was so ecstatic to land Lekkerimaki and may have even tried to trade up(Isles' pick trade) to get him. That said, if Lekkerimaki hits, a true, goal scoring winger is a bit of a niche player still.

 

[m9]

I was thinking about this the other day and wondered how much of a factor, if at all, it might be.

Where players are acquired from and if it has an effect on their play. It might be nothing and a player is who they are.

I was thinking as an example, you have a player like Connor Garland, who came from an absolute dumpster fire in Arizona. They have no expectations of winning, there might be a strong losing culture there. He comes to Vancouver and it's more of the same, so he's not going to go out of his way to change things, just slide back into how most of his career has been.

But you take a player who's spent time with a winning organization, or at least an organization that has structure and a winning environment, sets expectations for their players, and have them come in and rub off on the team changing the culture.

Three examples that came to mind are Bear, Schenn, and Miller.

Bear came from Carolina, an organization that has become one like I described, to be modeled after. I recall in his first game here someone gave up on the play because it was close to the end of the period and he stood there like "What the f*** guys?"

Miller came from Tampa, one of the most winning organizations of the last few years, but even he seems pretty beat down by the Canucks. Or maybe that was always his attitude stemming from the NY Rangers.

Schenn is a guy who also came back to us from Tampa, but is an example of a guy who has that winning attitude regardless of where he plays. It's built in him, doesnt' know how to be another way and expects the same from his teammates.

Maybe there's something to it, especially for a rebuilding team or a team looking to change it's culture, to prioritize players in trades or free agency, from winning or better teams, then to pluck pieces from loser teams.

This team has targeted many players from good organizations that haven't worked out either Beagle, Eriksson, Holtby, Schmidt. I don't know if it matters.

I like the sentiment, but at the end of the day I think you just have to build a good roster.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

what do you mean. look at this amazing class of pending free agent defenders who shoot right:

john klingberg
matt dumba
erik johnson
damon severson
kevin shattenkirk
travis hamonic
nick jensen
radko gudas
justin holl
scott mayfield
troy stetcher
anton stralman
connor clifton
luke schenn

just sign luke schenn, travis hamonic and troy stecher. rebuild done

Mayfield and Gudas for me there until we develop our own.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Get another 2023 1st.

Select Will Smith.

Then select Reinbacher.

 

[Gstank]

The guys I would look at are Severson, Mayfield, and Dumba and then secondary pieces like Cliffton, Jensen and Schenn.

That being said I wont offer any of those guys over 5 years so I doubt we are in the running for their services

 

[Vector]

Here’s every undrafted college free-agent defenseman getting significant playing time this season:

Jordan Oesterle - Red Wings
Chris Wideman - Canadiens
Joel Hanley - Stars
Nate Schmidt - Jets
Neal Pionk - Jets
Jacob MacDonald - Avalanche
Torey Krug - Blues
Troy Stecher - Coyotes
Chad Ruhwedel - Penguins
Matt Irwin - Capitals
Trevor van Riemsdyk - Capitals
Zach Whitecloud - Golden Knights
Sean Walker - Kings
Chris Tanev - Flames

Hey look, two examples that started with the Canucks!

 

[sting101]

It’s insane how much people are banking on undrafted college free agents waltzing into top 4 minutes.

i think its just a preference to the impending UFA contracts that would be the alternative without surrendering assets.

Yes i agree in that i wouldn't expect him to waltz in and play big minutes effectively.

Players like Pionk Stecher Tanev Krug Whitecloud Schmidt TVR offer some hope an optimism

 

[sting101]

The guys I would look at are Severson, Mayfield, and Dumba and then secondary pieces like Cliffton, Jensen and Schenn.

That being said I wont offer any of those guys over 5 years so I doubt we are in the running for their services

Nick Jensen on a short term would be decent. Ive watched the Caps a bunch this year and maybe its just my timing but he's looked excellent for a 32yr old. Lots of gas in the tank still

He'll probably get too much term but i would throw 2 maybe 3 yrs at him at 3 million if they can get rid of Myers. I would suggest beetween him and Bear that they could be good 4/5s for a few yrs if they can find a top pairing guy for Hughes.

 

[me2]

Here’s every undrafted college free-agent defenseman getting significant playing time this season:

Jordan Oesterle - Red Wings
Chris Wideman - Canadiens
Joel Hanley - Stars
Nate Schmidt - Jets
Neal Pionk - Jets
Jacob MacDonald - Avalanche
Torey Krug - Blues
Troy Stecher - Coyotes
Chad Ruhwedel - Penguins
Matt Irwin - Capitals
Trevor van Riemsdyk - Capitals
Zach Whitecloud - Golden Knights
Sean Walker - Kings
Chris Tanev - Flames

Hey look, two examples that started with the Canucks!

That's 15 players over 10 years. 1.5 players spread across 32 teams. 1/21 chance.

 

[DFAC]

Blow it up - trade everyone but Petey.

So sick of this half rebuild half compete bs

And sorry until Hughes can score more and doesnt have a muffin for a shot, he won’t be in the elite tier of dmen. Just cant be that one dimensional, other teams dont even take his shot seriously on the PP

 

[theguardianII]

Just spit balling;

Brandon Carlo, 2 nd rnd pick - Garland and Rathbone with 7th?

Andy Peeke, Vorcek, 2023 2nd rnd pick and David Jirek for Boeser (50%) and Miller

Lucas Johansen and 2023 1rst for Kuzmenko

Elmer Soderblom, William Wallinder, Micheal Rasmussen, 2023 2nd pick for Horvat

Kevin Bahl, 2023 1rst and 2024 1rst for Hughes and Aman

 

[Nucker101]

Just spit balling;

Brandon Carlo, 2 nd rnd pick - Garland and Rathbone with 7th?

Andy Peeke, Vorcek, 2023 2nd rnd pick and David Jirek for Boeser (50%) and Miller

Lucas Johansen and 2023 1rst for Kuzmenko

Elmer Soderblom, William Wallinder, Micheal Rasmussen, 2023 2nd pick for Horvat

Kevin Bahl, 2023 1rst and 2024 1rst for Hughes and Aman

1. Bruins laugh and hang up, especially with the pick swap

2. Columbus would have to be convinced that Miller can be a fit at center, I think they pass

3. Plausible, but Caps likely look around for a center first

4. Plausible

5. Plausible

 

[vancityluongo]

there's a main board thread where a bunch of canucks fans are turning down liljegren + engvall + 2023 1st for schenn and horvat (50% retained)

am i crazy in thinking i do that in a second? engvall for schenn is a clear win in terms of just flipping expired contracts (and especially given the supposed insistence on "hockey deals" and not just taking straight picks), and liljegren + a 1st for an expiring contract horvat (the 50% retention is irrelevant for the last two months of the season where we won't make the playoffs) is about as good of a return as could be asked for. a 23 year old top-4 RHD? look at how a similar (but worse??) player in lundqvist was valued.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

there's a main board thread where a bunch of canucks fans are turning down liljegren + engvall + 2023 1st for schenn and horvat (50% retained)

am i crazy in thinking i do that in a second? engvall for schenn is a clear win in terms of just flipping expired contracts (and especially given the supposed insistence on "hockey deals" and not just taking straight picks), and liljegren + a 1st for an expiring contract horvat (the 50% retention is irrelevant for the last two months of the season where we won't make the playoffs) is about as good of a return as could be asked for. a 23 year old top-4 RHD? look at how a similar (but worse??) player in lundqvist was valued.

Yes. That offer blows

 

[rypper]

Hard not to agree with this take.

 

[theguardianII]

1. Bruins laugh and hang up, especially with the pick swap

BOSTON BRUINS​

Bruins Could Be Ready to Talk Trading Defenseman Brandon Carlo​

a report by one NHL executive, the Boston Bruins might be open to considering a trade that would see Brandon Carlo dealt

3. Plausible, but Caps likely look around for a center first

Maybe but they have 3 top line center already, Miller instead? They will have more than enough cap space for his next contract and he did most of his 99 points as a center last year

2. Columbus would have to be convinced that Miller can be a fit at center, I think they pass

As per above. Most of his 99 points was as a center last year.
Actually when he first got here he was mostly a center.

Anyway just a shot in the dark

 

[Nucker101]

BOSTON BRUINS​

Bruins Could Be Ready to Talk Trading Defenseman Brandon Carlo​

a report by one NHL executive, the Boston Bruins might be open to considering a trade that would see Brandon Carlo dealt

Maybe but they have 3 top line center already, Miller instead? They will have more than enough cap space for his next contract and he did most of his 99 points as a center last year

As per above. Most of his 99 points was as a center last year.
Actually when he first got here he was mostly a center.

Anyway just a shot in the dark

They can do a hell of a lot better value wise than Carlo + 2nd for Garland + Rathbone

I think the Miller trade talk is moot, I would be shocked if they trade him soon.

 

[Knight53]

Miller for 1st, Lundkvist(1st), Chytil

Garland for 2nd

Schenn for 2nd

All rejected. Wow. These idiots better not be allergic to draft picks like the previous circus.

 

[theguardianII]

there's a main board thread where a bunch of canucks fans are turning down liljegren + engvall + 2023 1st for schenn and horvat (50% retained)

am i crazy in thinking i do that in a second? engvall for schenn is a clear win in terms of just flipping expired contracts (and especially given the supposed insistence on "hockey deals" and not just taking straight picks), and liljegren + a 1st for an expiring contract horvat (the 50% retention is irrelevant for the last two months of the season where we won't make the playoffs) is about as good of a return as could be asked for. a 23 year old top-4 RHD? look at how a similar (but worse??) player in lundqvist was valued.

Need more in return considering TO 1rst will be a very late 20's pick maybe even a 30's pick. Maybe add in the 2025 1rst and the Ottawa 2023 3rd and Mathew Knies