Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?

[m9]

I have a different concern here. I feel like the Canucks will take one last run and pony up an 8x8 or 8x9 offer to him which he accepts, only for him to revert to his career average of being a 25-30 goal, 55-65 point center - which while no bad thing, isn’t worth $8 or $9M a season.

I do think this hot streak of goals will come to an end. He’s always been a streaky scorer. The time to sign him to a reasonable extension was in the summer, and the price is too high now.

Just my opinion.

Although I also agree, the trade market is going to be very underwhelming here.

Yeah, this the worst-case scenario and it seems like it's still on the table.

I'm not concerned as much about the return. He's the profile of the kind of guy teams are going to want to add either for the playoffs or for the long-term. The return should be very good.

The return I think will be underwhelming if they wait is Kuzmenko. That situation should be resolved sooner than later.

 

[krutovsdonut]

there's a main board thread where a bunch of canucks fans are turning down liljegren + engvall + 2023 1st for schenn and horvat (50% retained)

am i crazy in thinking i do that in a second? engvall for schenn is a clear win in terms of just flipping expired contracts (and especially given the supposed insistence on "hockey deals" and not just taking straight picks), and liljegren + a 1st for an expiring contract horvat (the 50% retention is irrelevant for the last two months of the season where we won't make the playoffs) is about as good of a return as could be asked for. a 23 year old top-4 RHD? look at how a similar (but worse??) player in lundqvist was valued.

when did liljegren become a top 4 dman outside of leaf fan imaginations? i mean i wanted us to pick up an extra pick and draft him, but i have seen nothing to seal the deal on him graduating to top 4 player (as opposed to usage) and the leafs would never move him if that is case

 

[credulous]

i don't think it really matters if they extend horvat or not. this team isn't contending for at least 5 years anyways. what's another 3

 

[Fatass]

I think Colorado is fine with Georgiev in net.

If the Canucks are serious about moving Demko, LA is the team to be calling. I wonder what a Bo/Demko package could fetch from them? Something involving Brandt Clarke?

Bo + Demko for Byfield and Clarke? Would these two fit into our owner’s philosophy of getting back NHL players? Love it if we did this though. Just not too sure it’s a move our owner would okay.

 

[M2Beezy]

i don't think it really matters if they extend horvat or not. this team isn't contending for at least 5 years anyways. what's another 3

Or just squeak into the playoffs cause anything can happen

 

[vancityluongo]

when did liljegren become a top 4 dman outside of leaf fan imaginations? i mean i wanted us to pick up an extra pick and draft him, but i have seen nothing to seal the deal on him graduating to top 4 player (as opposed to usage) and the leafs would never move him if that is case

even just on ice-time with the leafs, he'd definitely be a top-4 here. i guess so is bear, to be fair.

but that's the thing - no team (contending or otherwise) is going to trade an actual contributing young #3 defenseman for a rental second line center, especially one that they almost certainly can't afford to keep beyond a single playoff run. we might get a fringe #4/5 (especially if we send them a replacement in schenn) that under the right conditions can play a bigger role for us, which is what liljegren probably is.

 

[credulous]

Or just squeak into the playoffs cause anything can happen

i think they'll probably sneak into the playoffs a couple times over the next 5 seasons just because nhl parity is so hard to defy for long but i don't see a path to contention barring a miracle like drafting berard and finding the next chris tanev and the next alex burrows in free agency. miller and oel just look like dead weight and no team is contending with a 15 million cap penalty like that

 

[theguardianII]

Would our owner allow a futures return for Demko? Wouldn’t the return have to be a young NHL player? Love to get the rebuild started with high picks, but don’t see our owner allowing that direction.

I don't think you understand the finances of the team, he makes more money if there is an internal cap.
He would make more money if they were rebuilding. Proof is in Ottawa, Melnyk was bleeding money into the team even with playoff income but once they did HIS plan, the one he laid out, the team finances turned around dramatically.
Spending to the cap even with a one and done playoffs is a losing proposition financially.
IF the team spends to the cap or over like the Canucks have been that is 20 mil more than rebuilding. Two playoff home dates don't make as much money as you think because the NHL takes a huge cut of the first round but even at 4 million per home game, which is high IMO and getting only 3 home games that is not as much as capping out.

The only reason for the owners not allowing a rebuild could be/is time.

As I posted somewhere I heard or read that they wanted a cup for their dad before he died.

No, a rebuild make them millions in savings

 

[Fatass]

I don't think you understand the finances of the team, he makes more money if there is an internal cap.
He would make more money if they were rebuilding. Proof is in Ottawa, Melnyk was bleeding money into the team even with playoff income but once they did HIS plan, the one he laid out, the team finances turned around dramatically.
Spending to the cap even with a one and done playoffs is a losing proposition financially.
IF the team spends to the cap or over like the Canucks have been that is 20 mil more than rebuilding. Two playoff home dates don't make as much money as you think because the NHL takes a huge cut of the first round but even at 4 million per home game, which is high IMO and getting only 3 home games that is not as much as capping out.

The only reason for the owners not allowing a rebuild could be/is time.

As I posted somewhere I heard or read that they wanted a cup for their dad before he died.

No, a rebuild make them millions in savings

Hasn’t the direction been to not rebuild since he bought the club though? Has the dad been on death’s door for the last 20 years?

 

[theguardianII]

Hasn’t the direction been to not rebuild since he bought the club though? Has the dad been on death’s door for the last 20 years?

Not 20 years.
Gillis built on Nonis work and the team was a powerhouse for years.
I remember watching games expecting wins because they won.
Playoffs were standard fare or so close, there was no WC spot.
2010 they were the best in every team stat or 2nd by a whisker in one.
Even 2011 they walked away being the best team in the league.
What player could crack the lineup?
They were drafting so late those they drafted had hardly a chance to make the team.

I do think there was a plan to retool though. It would start with Schneider and Luongo being traded and a Tampa/Pittsburgh type dive in the standings while keeping the majority of the team together.
Schnides traded for Horvat, the Kesler replacement, Larkin instead of Virtanen and then a excellent chance at McDavid or Eichel or other good prospect.
A two year retool.

But they hired "player first" Linden to subdue fan unrest and Linden hired a friend rookie GM and created the "Scouting Guru" persona. That is the root cause of the last 10 years. Linden and "the player is more important" than the team managing.

Isn't it strange that Linden left AFTER the Sedins were not traded or asked to wave their clause. A TDL trade, 14 games, would have enhanced the Canuck's future immensely. And then resigned for retirement. Just maybe the disagreement or whatever with the owners was the result of the player before team approach. Linden was a disaster but well loved in the province so his shat don't stink.

You want to blame the owners for meddling, I truly believe they went the opposite way too long and let the inmates run the asylum. The team became all about being professional entertainers. The team became a country club.

Even now maybe the European model of team building is being used, keep the team together as a community entity full of well known players. Like leagues where there are tiers and relegations.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Or just squeak into the playoffs cause anything can happen

LOL this man was such a dumbass

 

[Fatass]

Not 20 years.
Gillis built on Nonis work and the team was a powerhouse for years.
I remember watching games expecting wins because they won.
Playoffs were standard fare or so close, there was no WC spot.
2010 they were the best in every team stat or 2nd by a whisker in one.
Even 2011 they walked away being the best team in the league.
What player could crack the lineup?
They were drafting so late those they drafted had hardly a chance to make the team.

I do think there was a plan to retool though. It would start with Schneider and Luongo being traded and a Tampa/Pittsburgh type dive in the standings while keeping the majority of the team together.
Schnides traded for Horvat, the Kesler replacement, Larkin instead of Virtanen and then a excellent chance at McDavid or Eichel or other good prospect.
A two year retool.

But they hired "player first" Linden to subdue fan unrest and Linden hired a friend rookie GM and created the "Scouting Guru" persona. That is the root cause of the last 10 years. Linden and "the player is more important" than the team managing.

Isn't it strange that Linden left AFTER the Sedins were not traded or asked to wave their clause. A TDL trade, 14 games, would have enhanced the Canuck's future immensely. And then resigned for retirement. Just maybe the disagreement or whatever with the owners was the result of the player before team approach. Linden was a disaster but well loved in the province so his shat don't stink.

You want to blame the owners for meddling, I truly believe they went the opposite way too long and let the inmates run the asylum. The team became all about being professional entertainers. The team became a country club.

Even now maybe the European model of team building is being used, keep the team together as a community entity full of well known players. Like leagues where there are tiers and relegations.

I think that’s my point. The owner wasn’t meddling in actual hockey ops. But he set the direction from the moment he bought the club that we sell futures in moves to hopefully win now. Gillis did great with it. Benning was awful. The new guys are still to be determined. But the direction from above hasn’t changed.

 

[LordBacon]

Or just squeak into the playoffs cause anything can happen

Look at that beautiful face of his,
He must be very bright and comes up with a lot of excellent ideas.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Or just squeak into the playoffs cause anything can happen

Face of a man fascinated with Cocomelon

 

[Vector]

Face of a man fascinated with Cocomelon

This is a perfect example of the general age of the posters at this board.

 

[tradervik]

Have to trade Horvat in order to save up some $$ to pay Pettersen.

 

[604]

Kuz is like a free top 5 pick and we still suck.

How is our defense sooooo bad? It's like they're doing everything they can to give away odd man rushes against.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Kuz is like a free top 5 pick and we still suck.

How is our defense sooooo bad? It's like they're doing everything they can to give away odd man rushes against.

Tyler Myers
Riley Stillman

 

[nuxnux1]

See here’s the thing, signing horvat would be a non issue, but as it is right now he’s a luxury we can’t afford. Just too much dead cap tied up in mediocre players to have a 9m 2c on the team. I would want 9+ if I was bo too and saw oel Myers boeser Miller paid what they are being paid. The problem is we have too many guys paid as something they aren’t, 6m for meyers should be on a guy that can carry the second d pair, not a 5th dman on 90% of teams, 7 for oel should be on a top pair dman to pair with hughes, not an avg top 4 dman, 5 for garland should be on a second line complimentary scoring wing not a 3rd like piece. Boeser god help him with whatever he is going through is bringing literally everyone’s numbers into the sewer every time he steps on the ice. That’s just so so so much cap space on mediocre pieces that there’s not a chance the captain sees that and says hey I’ll be the guy to take the pay cut so we can keep being mediocre at best. I’d either wanna get paid or get the hell out too.

 

[theguardianII]

Kuz is like a free top 5 pick and we still suck.

How is our defense sooooo bad? It's like they're doing everything they can to give away odd man rushes against.

Tyler Myers
Riley Stillman

Burroughs
Poolman
Dermott
Hughes
Schenn
Bear
OEL

 

[brock hughes007]

i don't think it really matters if they extend horvat or not. this team isn't contending for at least 5 years anyways. what's another 3

Trading just Horvat will not fix this team,we would be exposing new players into the same toxic dressing room.This whole team needs to be stripped down and built around Petty,Kuz,Hughes.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I’m really interested in resigning Kuzmenko and I’m hoping they can get that done for Garland money….. I like the guy a tonne, next to Petey he is the most fun Canuck to watch and I think he is a good personality for this franchise that has so much negativity connected to them.

 

[ziploc]

Burroughs
Poolman
Dermott
Hughes
Schenn
Bear
OEL

Some of these are far more problematic than others, both play-wise and money-wise. Burroughs, Hughes, Schenn and Bear are good for what they bring and cost.

 

[racerjoe]

See here’s the thing, signing horvat would be a non issue, but as it is right now he’s a luxury we can’t afford. Just too much dead cap tied up in mediocre players to have a 9m 2c on the team. I would want 9+ if I was bo too and saw oel Myers boeser Miller paid what they are being paid. The problem is we have too many guys paid as something they aren’t, 6m for meyers should be on a guy that can carry the second d pair, not a 5th dman on 90% of teams, 7 for oel should be on a top pair dman to pair with hughes, not an avg top 4 dman, 5 for garland should be on a second line complimentary scoring wing not a 3rd like piece. Boeser god help him with whatever he is going through is bringing literally everyone’s numbers into the sewer every time he steps on the ice. That’s just so so so much cap space on mediocre pieces that there’s not a chance the captain sees that and says hey I’ll be the guy to take the pay cut so we can keep being mediocre at best. I’d either wanna get paid or get the hell out too.

Horvat would be a luxury if he wanted to sign a reasonable contract. He does not so he is currently not a good prize.

 

[theguardianII]

Some of these are far more problematic than others, both play-wise and money-wise. Burroughs, Hughes, Schenn and Bear are good for what they bring and cost.

Well you get what you pay for, one of the worst defensive teams in the league so none on the team deserve too much praise, except maybe Schenn. IMO even as an elder player he is showing more heart, leadership and playing within his game.