theguardianII
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Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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Burroughs and Schenn on the 3rd pairing, Bear on the 2nd, and Hughes on the 1st would be fine. Good even. The problem is OEL and Myers (these two especially), Dermott (not his fault at the moment), Poolman and Stillman. So much wasted cap space here and lousy play. Myers, at minimum, has to go. OEL will still be here for the next few decades, nothing we can do about that.
theguardianII
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How can anyone think any combination from this team is good?
They have the 5th worst goals against in the league
3rd worst in goals against per game in the league
Bear wasn't good enough for teams, Poolman can't play due to head issues, Dermott has concussion issues and may be close to being finished, Stillman is an AHL guy, Burroughs is an AHL guy, OEL is aging, Schenn is aging, Myers is aging, Hughes can't play in his own zone so the team needs shut down specialists
OEL and Myers just have big contracts and Myers is a wanted commodity, like Tanev was when here.
Miller could be on the cusp of being the next Eriksson or close certainly before the end of his next contract.
I think Horvat will be moved quickly, he didn't do interviews after a win, at least I didn't see any so maybe there is something in the works to be triggered very soon when the trade freeze is over.
I do hope at this point that Horvat is moved, and our defense is restructured. I think it is also a little silly to suggest there isn't anything good - the defense doesn't work, but my point was that the problem clearly lies more with some than with others. Hughes is very good at what he does and for what he costs. Burroughs and Schenn and Bear are perfectly fine within their capacities and at their cost. The others are a massive, massive problem. Nor am I saying, however, that Burroughs, Schenn and Bear are irreplaceable or shouldn't be moved. I suspect Bear gets re-signed, hope Schenn gets traded for a good return, and am fine with Burroughs staying or being traded. I just don't think they are the primary problem.
theguardianII
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Then it is really not the players fault just some idiot GM paid too much.
If offer money I doubt too many would say "no that is too much, take some back"
There is the earning the value of the contract but really Myers was offered too much but then Elmer gave Guddy 4 mil, Sbisa a 3 fold raise, Garland a 8 times raise, and the other over paid guys. Blame Benning the player is playing the same game he always has. Except when they age out, OEL is not bad on the PP but he has had to change his game. Sort of like if Hughes didn't get any PP time, then his deal looks horrid.OEL was always the big PP guy.
Bojack Horvatman
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Really torn on if we should keep Kuzmenko. He has great chemistry with Pettersson, and that's important. Depends on the cost I guess. We all love him now that he's cheap, but what if he cost 7m? Plus he is a great trade chip at the deadline.
I would keep him. It gives you something to build around and something that you know works for your best player.
The Assets that you get from a potential Kuz trade aren't worth the value he brings to the team in the short and long term picture.
As we have seen with Buffalo, LA. Minny, and Detriot you can't keep all the assets you acquire and not all of them turn out so its better to have a top 6 forward who still fits your core group then to trade him and have to go searching in the next 2/3 for a similar asset
Bottom 6 players are the ones who are expendable
Pastor Of Muppetz
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I am as well..Despite his great chemistry with EP, is he worth signing for 6 or $7M..?..Is he the player driving the play on his line, or is he the beneficiary of playing with Elias Pettersson..?..Like Anson Carter was playing with the Sedins.
The management should be all ears on offers for him at the TDL.
Just A Bit Outside
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You only sign Kuz if you can get rid of Boeser and probably Garland.
Or at the very least, Miller in a most futures deal.
Given I don’t expect any of that to happen, Kuz likely gets dealt at the TDL.
Or at the very least, Miller in a most futures deal.
Given I don’t expect any of that to happen, Kuz likely gets dealt at the TDL.
Bojack Horvatman
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Agree with this. I would try to keep him too. Although we absolutely have to find out before the deadline if he will resign and what his next contract will look like. I just don't like overpaying on wingers. I would only trade him if he won't resign here or if his next contract is too expensive. We'll definitely have to move Garland or Boeser though
Bojack Horvatman
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Exactly. People said the same thing with Panarin with Kane though. Would really hate to walk away from him though and see him excel somewhere else. Really depends on what his next deal looks like.
I probably would do 6×7 because of his age and chemistry with EP. But any more than that and I would be looking at trading him.
Moving Boeser and Garland should be a priority. Of course, we have a lot of priorities to move.
Ideal world would have Miller, Boeser, Garland, Myers and Schenn out, and re-sign Kuz and Horvat.
Real world will be...different.
(I don't even put OEL being traded in the ideal world, because that's just pure fantasy).
Kuzmenko wont cost much more than Garland or Boeser. You do what you have to do to move those guys, and keep Kuz. He chose to play in Van, shouldn't be a difficult negotiation.
Kuz looks like what Boeser was in the bubble year. Some quiet nights, sure, but able to score, cycle, and make plays. Not fast, but not slow. In good shape, happy to playing on the team and with his linemates.
Kuz looks like what Boeser was in the bubble year. Some quiet nights, sure, but able to score, cycle, and make plays. Not fast, but not slow. In good shape, happy to playing on the team and with his linemates.
wouldn't move Garland, he generates offense, and has been yo-yo up and down the lineup.
Move the following first:
Horvat - scoring goals at an unsustainable shooting percentage, and can't make plays. Wants a 1C contract, his scoring should hopefully allow us to get some good value.
Boeser- simply a liability defensively, whether he rebounds offensive is meaningless, when he stands and watch in the defensive zone.
Schenn- love his leadership/physicality/heart all that at a low salary, but he's not a top 4 dman on a good team and he is likely gonna start regressing soon. get value back.
Myers - never can complain about his effort, just hes extremely mistake prone. You can't win with mistake prone hockey players. easy decision to move him, and once that bonus is paid, should be able to.
Focus on these 4 and negotiate with Kuz.
Move the following first:
Horvat - scoring goals at an unsustainable shooting percentage, and can't make plays. Wants a 1C contract, his scoring should hopefully allow us to get some good value.
Boeser- simply a liability defensively, whether he rebounds offensive is meaningless, when he stands and watch in the defensive zone.
Schenn- love his leadership/physicality/heart all that at a low salary, but he's not a top 4 dman on a good team and he is likely gonna start regressing soon. get value back.
Myers - never can complain about his effort, just hes extremely mistake prone. You can't win with mistake prone hockey players. easy decision to move him, and once that bonus is paid, should be able to.
Focus on these 4 and negotiate with Kuz.
You find a way to keep kuzmenko. Look at them (petterson and kuz) as how the Sedins were during their career. You can stick anyone with them and the line produces, you don't break that up as the 3rd forward can be a cheap contract.
Horvat you have to unfortunately trade. Only way you can bring him back is if you get rid of Garland, Boeser. Whether that's getting rid of those 2 ans re-signing prior to tdl or him as a ufa.
Having Pettersson Kuzmenko and Horvat Miller as pairs is good as long as the horvat line finds a defensively responsible player that can cover them.
The problem is the dead cap in Garland, Boeser, Pearson, Myers that would need to be sheded to surround those pairs, create a good 3rd line and fix the d
Horvat you have to unfortunately trade. Only way you can bring him back is if you get rid of Garland, Boeser. Whether that's getting rid of those 2 ans re-signing prior to tdl or him as a ufa.
Having Pettersson Kuzmenko and Horvat Miller as pairs is good as long as the horvat line finds a defensively responsible player that can cover them.
The problem is the dead cap in Garland, Boeser, Pearson, Myers that would need to be sheded to surround those pairs, create a good 3rd line and fix the d
Diversification
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The only way to keep Kuzmenko is to deal Horvat and one of Garland or Boeser. With the latter 2, it can only be accomplished by 'losing' a trade. You 'lose' less with a Garland trade, more with Boeser (probably parting with significant assets).
It all comes down to cost/benefit. Lose Garland and it hurts more than losing Boeser but Garland is the more liquifiable asset, possible without taking back too much salary
Long term, it's likely that both have to go along with Myers in order to reform our blueline.
You have to "lose" on both realistically. Even then you have to consider what a loss is.
Taking on an overpaid 3rd liner who has similar/less term than boeser at a lower cap hit? Imo a win. Team defense sucks. The team needs defensive reliability and they don't have it past 1 line.
Waiting around for an okay deal at this time doesnt help. They've been trying to do it for years. They need to just rip the bandaid off and pay the price for them to go OR just admit rebuild work from that angle
Diversification
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Both need to go. We agree on that. It's just that the markets are different for the 2 players and it might take time to resolve so that you 'lose' less.
Ideally with a player like Garland, an ideal trade would net futures exclusively. But probably it won't be at the deadline because he has too much term for a contender to absorb in the long run. He's more someone you could send to a middling team that needs some speed and offensive depth on the wings that's run into injuries mid-season or strikes out in the offseason with UFAs.
Boeser has more pedigree but an uglier caphit. Fills a similar need for scoring on the wing but with goalscoring abilities that Garland doesn't possess. Given his recent run of play, retention or salary coming back will probably have to be part of the deal. But if that can be arranged, a contender could give us perhaps a favorable package - maybe a pick and smaller, ugly contract in return. If that ugly contract can help us currently (as you alluded to), all the better.
Look, I just really like Kuzmenko and these two playing together is electric. All I’m saying is I’d happily trade pretty much anyone else to find a way to keep the guy.
must be dealt somehow: Miller, Garland, Boeser, pearson, myers, poolman, oel
if no good deal can be reach: horvat, but canucks need his faceoffs and who will captain this team the next 2-3 yrs? schenn??? i guess they can go without a C but not ideal.
EP and QH are good quiet players, but not captain material
Bedard to canucks
if no good deal can be reach: horvat, but canucks need his faceoffs and who will captain this team the next 2-3 yrs? schenn??? i guess they can go without a C but not ideal.
EP and QH are good quiet players, but not captain material
Bedard to canucks
SelltheTeamFrancesco
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Go Hawks!
Pertaining to Kuzmenko, I think its basically...weight how much he wants vs. how much he is going to return as a rental. If he's priced himself out of the ballpark...for me that's anything over $6-$6.5m on a 4-5 year contract, you pretty much have to walk away. Hopefully, he enjoys Vancouver and Petey's wing enough to sign a reasonable deal to return...if that doesn't sound possible by the deadline, start shopping.
Bourne Endeavor
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If this is the case, I genuinely think we have to keep Kuzmenko to keep Pettersson. He just wasn't the same player after Toffoli and Tanev walked--two players he specifically asked Benning to keep.
There comes a point where he'll just be fed up with how directionless we've been and want out.
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