Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?

[604]

You only sign Kuz if you can get rid of Boeser and probably Garland.

Or at the very least, Miller in a most futures deal.

Given I don’t expect any of that to happen, Kuz likely gets dealt at the TDL.

Trade Kuz at the deadline no matter what.

If you want, let him know what you're planning to offer in the offseason ahead of trading him.

 

[ziploc]

We are exactly a mediocre team. Not good enough to do anything, not bad enough to rebuild or get high draft picks. We can score but not defend, except in years when we can defend but not score. We can have a good PP or a good PK, but not both, and sometimes neither. We can play well on the road but not at home.

As frustrating a season as I can remember as a fan.

 

[NYVanfan]

Trade Kuz at the deadline no matter what.

If you want, let him know what you're planning to offer in the offseason ahead of trading him.

Somehow this never seems to work.
Is there an example of a team trading away a player only to re-sign him a couple months later as UFA? That would be my preference.
But I look at it as what will return max value? Its clearly the ufas — in order,
Tier 1) Horvat, Kuz, Schenn
Tier 2) Then maybe Garland or Boeser
Tier 3) Then Myers, Miller

We could get 3 firsts for this stacked draft by trading all tier 1 guys, and be younger and arguably not miles worse — get rid of myers as well and we have cap to work with. If we could move miller and keep horvat id do it, even though we’d get less return.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Somehow this never seems to work.
Is there an example of a team trading away a player only to re-sign him a couple months later as UFA? That would be my preference.
But I look at it as what will return max value? Its clearly the ufas — in order,
Tier 1) Horvat, Kuz, Schenn
Tier 2) Then maybe Garland or Boeser
Tier 3) Then Myers, Miller

We could get 3 firsts for this stacked draft by trading all tier 1 guys, and be younger and arguably not miles worse — get rid of myers as well and we have cap to work with. If we could move miller and keep horvat id do it, even though we’d get less return.

Horvat is a really good player and I hope we can resign him for 7 million nothing more
I think with the cap going up we can fit all three centres into our roster and just let all the fat go
Despite all the crap this season has been, it’s still Petey, Miller and Horvat that get us our wins.

 

[RutherPlan]

I still think Horvat ends up staying, the players that won't make the cut will likely be Boeser, Myers, and Pearson.

 

[Love]

I still think Horvat ends up staying, the players that won't make the cut will likely be Boeser, Myers, and Pearson.

It would be a mistake, so you’re probably right.

 

[Delocatedfan]

I still think Horvat ends up staying, the players that won't make the cut will likely be Boeser, Myers, and Pearson.

Also means Kuzmenko most likely gone as well which sucks as I am coming around to keeping him since him & pete work well together

 

[M2Beezy]

I think Horvat, Schenn and Martin will be traded before the TDL. Hopefully Miller, but I doubt it

After Myers singing bonus in the offseason, can see him being traded for some picks. And Garland will be traded in the offseason for an UNDERwhelming return. Probably Pearson too, but for negative value

IMO it would be unwise to trade Brock Boeser right now. He seems to be streaky, and not playing close to his contract right now. Chances are he will next season. If the Canucks are still Benninging up next season Id trade him next season to maximize term, as opposed to now with this value quiet low

Someone mentioned the buyout for OEL would make sense after the 2023-24 season. That seems likely

I can see the team doing what they can to keep Pettersson, Kuzmenko and Hughes here

Demko is a wildcard guess for me, not sure how to read the possibility of him being traded. Would need Silovs to play like Demko in order for Demko to be traded

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

wouldn't move Garland, he generates offense, and has been yo-yo up and down the lineup.

Move the following first:

Horvat - scoring goals at an unsustainable shooting percentage, and can't make plays. Wants a 1C contract, his scoring should hopefully allow us to get some good value.

Boeser- simply a liability defensively, whether he rebounds offensive is meaningless, when he stands and watch in the defensive zone.

Schenn- love his leadership/physicality/heart all that at a low salary, but he's not a top 4 dman on a good team and he is likely gonna start regressing soon. get value back.

Myers - never can complain about his effort, just hes extremely mistake prone. You can't win with mistake prone hockey players. easy decision to move him, and once that bonus is paid, should be able to.

Focus on these 4 and negotiate with Kuz.

Pearson as well.

 

[sting101]

Garland needs to go...........take a bag of pucks or a bad contract that is off the books at the end of the year and an asset. Sooner the better

Schenn at the deadline.....recoup the 2nd

Myers after his bonus. Get a pick if you can or a B prospect and move on

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Garland is a fine player, but he's replaceable with players we already have.

He's just too small. He can protect the puck, but can't look around while doing so to make the pass. Every defender in the league completely eclipses over him. He has to guess and go by system.

 

[tyhee]

Yeah…in hindsight it’s a very good offer. I can’t fault them for not taking it. Everything to do with Miller afterwards? Definitely.

Can we fault them at least some?

I thought the value was worth trading Miller at the time... But, Im not very high on Miller.

Looking strictly at value it was the obviously right thing to do at the time. Pretty clearly Miller would never have as high a trade value again and it made no sense to keep him over future assets.

I see two things that limit the fault that should be assigned to Allvin. The first was the Bruce Bump, which would have meant such a move would would have faced scathing criticism from some fans and media and probably pushback from the owners. The second was that the effect on the players' collective psyche might have been devastating-perhaps even more than the start of this season was. That effect on the team morale would have meant the team had to rebuild as they'd be extremely likely to be losing their core anyway as the players' contracts expired.

Looking at all that I'm not sure how much to fault Allvin for not trading Miller at the deadline. I wanted him to and thought it terrible for the franchise when Miller stayed a Canuck past the deadline, but it would have taken an awful lot of courage in the circumstances.

In my opinion Allvin can and should be heavily faulted for extending Miller, regardless of the owners' position. As FAq once said, managers manage. If Allvin as GM was going to be forced into making stupid moves that if competent he had to know was contrary to the best interests of the franchise he gets no credit from me as a fan of the franchise.

 

[Gstank]

IS it the employees fault that he is not making a liveable wage because his employer doesnt want to pay him a liveable wage?

To blame management for what is clearly a mandate set by Ownership is not understanding how the structure of companies work.

To say not trading Miller is a mistake is a take that is based on the assumption that teams were willing to give up good assets for him. It seems as if teams know Miller is a flawed player and that they werent willing to give up good assets to acquire him. Teams could have been offering somethink like the Fiala deal a 1st and a b prospect and everyone would have complainned about not getting enough for him and that we should have waited until the TDL where the offers would have been similar.

We have no comfirmation that the NYR offer was infact what they offered or if it was something they were talking about but with minor tweaks.

Miller is a good player and at a PPG is probably fair value for his point production. He probably still has value around the league but that value will probably depend on how much the cap goes up. Sadly we dont ahve the player on this team to surround him so he isnt a defensively liability. But out of Garland, Boeser and himself. Miller is the least of this teams worries moving forward.

 

[theguardianII]

IS it the employees fault that he is not making a liveable wage because his employer doesnt want to pay him a liveable wage?

To blame management for what is clearly a mandate set by Ownership is not understanding how the structure of companies work.

To say not trading Miller is a mistake is a take that is based on the assumption that teams were willing to give up good assets for him. It seems as if teams know Miller is a flawed player and that they werent willing to give up good assets to acquire him. Teams could have been offering somethink like the Fiala deal a 1st and a b prospect and everyone would have complainned about not getting enough for him and that we should have waited until the TDL where the offers would have been similar.

We have no comfirmation that the NYR offer was infact what they offered or if it was something they were talking about but with minor tweaks.

Miller is a good player and at a PPG is probably fair value for his point production. He probably still has value around the league but that value will probably depend on how much the cap goes up. Sadly we dont ahve the player on this team to surround him so he isnt a defensively liability. But out of Garland, Boeser and himself. Miller is the least of this teams worries moving forward.

I don't think the reaction would have been that bad. Certainly not as bad as the team overall.

Fans know the Cap is king now in a cap world. Without cap space team growth is strangled to multiple years instead of months. That is why the WINNING teams are into LTIR, a loophole that allows for going over or spending over the cap. WINNING teams, losing teams should never be close to the cap and not in the playoffs.

Media and the Canucks are boasting about being .500. That illusionary target that used represent half way there between being good or being awful.

The Nucks played two good games and had outstanding performances, one night a player with 5 points the next a player with 4 points and while the points percentage has them at .500 now, they are tied for 25th in the standings.

The oddity of the Miller signing makes me think there may be or was a deal in the works, teams wanted cost certainty. Signed at the time he was they would have to wait for cap space to accrued to complete a future trade.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I don't think the reaction would have been that bad. Certainly not as bad as the team overall.

Fans know the Cap is king now in a cap world. Without cap space team growth is strangled to multiple years instead of months. That is why the WINNING teams are into LTIR, a loophole that allows for going over or spending over the cap. WINNING teams, losing teams should never be close to the cap and not in the playoffs.

Media and the Canucks are boasting about being .500. That illusionary target that used represent half way there between being good or being awful.

The Nucks played two good games and had outstanding performances, one night a player with 5 points the next a player with 4 points and while the points percentage has them at .500 now, they are tied for 25th in the standings.

The oddity of the Miller signing makes me think there may be or was a deal in the works, teams wanted cost certainty. Signed at the time he was they would have to wait for cap space to accrued to complete a future trade.

Canucks media and fans are boasting about being .500…?..Okey Dokey.

 

[rypper]

Media and the Canucks are boasting about being .500. That illusionary target that used represent half way there between being good or being awful.

They're really not.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

If the players had gone out there and played a good season so far, this would be a different discussion. This is on them now. Management hasn't been great but IMO gave them the tools to succeed and they haven't done it.

I guess people could've supposedly foreseen Demko's fall from top goalie to worst in the league, Miller turning into a total chump, OEL's resurgence being over after one season, Hughes turning back into his terrible 2021 self, etc. But for all of these things to happen simultaneously is just infuriating.

 

[me2]

If the players had gone out there and played a good season so far, this would be a different discussion. This is on them now. Management hasn't been great but IMO gave them the tools to succeed and they haven't done it.

They didn't give the team a serious defensive group. The defense struggling was entirely expected.

I guess people could've supposedly foreseen Demko's fall from top goalie to worst in the league

Demko crashing was unexpected. Injury risk aside.

, Miller turning into a total chump

Same old Miller. People just overlooked it last year as his 99 points was a bright spot as the rest of the team was terrible at times.

OEL's resurgence being over after one season

Not unexpected. He's worn out, patches of good and big patches of bad.

Hughes turning back into his terrible 2021 self, etc.

It was always a risk but still disappointing. Let's hope there is an explanation.

But for all of these things to happen simultaneously is just infuriating.

Outside of Demko the team is just returning to form. Going all in on last year's team would be like going all in on a pair of 5s.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

They didn't give the team a serious defensive group. The defense struggling was entirely expected.



Demko crashing was unexpected. Injury risk aside.



Same old Miller. People just overlooked it last year as his 99 points was a bright spot as the rest of the team was terrible at times.



Not unexpected. He's worn out, patches of good and big patches of bad.



It was always a risk but still disappointing. Let's hope there is an explanation.



Outside of Demko the team is just returning to form. Going all in on last year's team would be like going all in on a pair of 5s.

Fair. I wish we had not extended Miller and now had the option to flip him as a rental along with Bo, or even to keep Bo. Hopefully Miller resurges soon and somebody bites.

I disagree on OEL..he's not THAT old, and if his injury history was the problem that doesn't explain his solid play last year, unless there's a new injury I don't know about. Anyways, whatever. We're ****ed as always.

 

[Fatass]

Canucks media and fans are boasting about being .500…?..Okey Dokey.

Considering the huge mess Benning left for new management to clean up .500 is actually amazing. How long are we stuck with OEL and the Benning legacy?

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Minnesota website writer suggested Rossi+Spacek+1st for Horvat 50% retained and signed to a long term deal.

I’d do it. Although Rossi having 1 point in 16 games to start his NHL career is really concerning…


I also saw a predators fan suggest Johansen+Fabbro for Boeser+Pearson which again I would probably also do. Johansen’s contract sucks though but gives us a stop gap Center (and right handed). Can then flip Schenn for late 1st or 2nd+asset.

Top 9 of:
Kuz-Petey-Mik
Rossi-Miller-Garland
Hog-Johansen-Pod

Defense of:

Hughes-Fabbro
OEL-Bear
Dermott/Rath-Myers


We’d then have our own first, Minnesota’s first and possibly Schenn’s 1st or 2nd and another prospect.

Not my trades but Thoughts?

 

[Vector]

That Johansen contract is absolutely ugly. Two more years at 8m for a 3rd line centre f***s the cap so much. I wouldn’t do that trade.

 

[dez]

That Johansen contract is absolutely ugly. Two more years at 8m for a 3rd line centre f***s the cap so much. I wouldn’t do that trade.

And once they re-sign Bo they'll have their own 8m third line center.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

And once they re-sign Bo they'll have their own 8m third line center.

Bo is not and will not be a 3rd line center for a very long time.

That Johansen contract is absolutely ugly. Two more years at 8m for a 3rd line centre f***s the cap so much. I wouldn’t do that trade.

Maybe Myers instead of Pearson?

Boeser/Myers for Johansen/Fabbro?

 

[Vector]

Bo is not and will not be a 3rd line center for a very long time.


Maybe Myers instead of Pearson?

Boeser/Myers for Johansen/Fabbro?

A big problem for either scenario is how much both trades f*** the cap in order to obtain Fabbro.

Trade 1, Canucks actually take on salary and with Fabbro being a RFA with his QO set at 2.4m, you’re looking at a raise on that.

For trade 2, it’s a similar scenario with maybe about 1m in cap savings. Myers and Pearson both being UFAs a year earlier makes them much more palatable than Johansen’s bloat.

You’ve also allocated any cap savings to those two leaving very little room to retain Kuzmenko, no room to upgrade the rest of the roster, and completely called out, again, just to add Fabbro right as he gets expensive.