OT: Failure of a team, Failure of a rebuild

[Adrianopolous]

Interesting how I called it the Darkest Hour in 2018, but it's now more like the Darkest 7 Years since then:

Ottawa Senators : Darkest Hour

Has it ever been worse than this? I've been a fan since 2002, and I don't think i've seen anything quite like this.. Even for other teams.

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[Tnuoc Alucard]

Then Jacques comes in and straight up tells them they will never win in this league if they keep playing like this. I think an offseason to digest everything and clear their heads will help a lot when it’s all said and done.

J Martin was correct, and yes there has been a few games that showed they can stick to his system, and beat teams much higher in the standing…. But there have just as many, if not more, of teams below them that they’ve not been able to beat.

So their record with JM is almost on par with the record under DJS….. this tells me the JM message has not fully sunk in, and why this has not been addressed is baffling.


So in the end, how much of a “foundation” has JM laid out? And with some changes to the roster, and a new coaching staff next training camp, how much of JMs “straightening out” will carry over to the systems employed by the new Head coach?

 

[Tuna99]

J Martin was correct, and yes there has been a few games that showed they can stick to his system, and beat teams much higher in the standing…. But there have just as many, if not more, of teams below them that they’ve not been able to beat.

So their record with JM is almost on par with the record under DJS….. this tells me the JM message has not fully sunk in, and why this has not been addressed is baffling.


So in the end, how much of a “foundation” has JM laid out? And with some changes to the roster, and a new coaching staff next training camp, how much of JMs “straightening out” will carry over to the systems employed by the new Head coach?

Culture or identity is just another word for “having the ability to win games” - that’s all it means. you can only lay a foundation for winning with the right balance of players (Ottawa doesn’t have this at all) that play a system that allows you to keep a structure (the puck outside of prime scoring spots)

JM was brought in to send a message of consistent 2 way hockey to the players and see who responded and could improve their game and who couldn’t - Batherson, Kelly, Tkachuk, Sanderson have all looked better. JBD stuck around. Stutzle has dominated in spurts. But I think we have a good idea now that Vhyryn doesn’t fit in, neither do the goalies, Norris is a good player in the wrong spot, Tkachuk needs help in leadership, Giroux doesn’t have his legs every night.

What the team is now is clear - I think you can see now the team is out of balance and the people that keep scoring chances down (structure) aren’t here so you don’t have a culture (ability to win games)

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Culture or identity is just another word for “having the ability to win games” - that’s all it means. you can only lay a foundation for winning with the right balance of players (Ottawa doesn’t have this at all) that play a system that allows you to keep a structure (the puck outside of prime scoring spots)

JM was brought in to send a message of consistent 2 way hockey to the players and see who responded and could improve their game and who couldn’t - Batherson, Kelly, Tkachuk, Sanderson have all looked better. JBD stuck around. Stutzle has dominated in spurts. But I think we have a good idea now that Vhyryn doesn’t fit in, neither do the goalies, Norris is a good player in the wrong spot, Tkachuk needs help in leadership, Giroux doesn’t have his legs every night.

What the team is now is clear - I think you can see now the team is out of balance and the people that keep scoring chances down (structure) aren’t here so you don’t have a culture (ability to win games)

I think with the right coaching from Oct-1 and standard goaltending this team would have been much better.

It's obvious JM wasn't the guy either.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Culture or identity is just another word for “having the ability to win games” - that’s all it means. you can only lay a foundation for winning with the right balance of players (Ottawa doesn’t have this at all) that play a system that allows you to keep a structure (the puck outside of prime scoring spots)

JM was brought in to send a message of consistent 2 way hockey to the players and see who responded and could improve their game and who couldn’t - Batherson, Kelly, Tkachuk, Sanderson have all looked better. JBD stuck around. Stutzle has dominated in spurts. But I think we have a good idea now that Vhyryn doesn’t fit in, neither do the goalies, Norris is a good player in the wrong spot, Tkachuk needs help in leadership, Giroux doesn’t have his legs every night.

What the team is now is clear - I think you can see now the team is out of balance and the people that keep scoring chances down (structure) aren’t here so you don’t have a culture (ability to win games)

 

[Tuna99]

View attachment 839196

You keep repeating the same thing that the team sucks - we know that.

For all Your success stories of Tocchet there is a Mike Sullivan who will Miss the playoffs. nobody in Pittsburg blames the coach everyone is saying their team is slow, has no depth and no prospects. Coach can’t solve that

 

[Tuna99]

I think with the right coaching from Oct-1 and standard goaltending this team would have been much better.

It's obvious JM wasn't the guy either.

My bet is Staois knew he was going to make major changes to the roster as he didn’t like not having any cap flexibility and a poor mix of players and the team seems more set to acquire players with hockey sense/ 2 way players then sturdy players who can skate a bit like under Dorion/Mann.

So to me bringing in the long term coach with a fresh start and a stable roster after Staois makes major roster changes is smart. Bringing in a coach long term and then trading Brady best friend in Norris or Chabot could of led to some animosity or strained player-coach relations.

What Ottawa needs more the man a coach is a balance of 20 players that can play 3 periods of hockey over 82 games with structure so they can win on the road and keep the puck out of the net

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

View attachment 839196

How come you never posted any records under DJ Smith or Dorion?

The only thing I've seen you post that was remotely similar was point percentage at the beginning of the season like you were trying to make a point that they were doing well or something.

 

[Philadelphia Collins]

7 years of missing the playoffs/outright tanking, should have a cupboard full of NHL-ready prospects right?

Worst part of watching this seasons meaningless Dec-April games is that there’s not even young talent to call up. Ostapchuk has been a breath of fresh air and I’m sure Crookshank will get a call up sooner or later but watching guys like Kubalik and Katchouk play 3rd line minutes with pp2 time hurts my soul. Kastelic doesn’t even belong in the NHL if he’s not finishing his checks anymore

 

[lancepitlick]

What if we retain half? Chychrun at $2.3million aav would be a bargain for his "skillset"

They sent the 12th overall pick and two seconds. One season half retained isn't going to make that big of a difference. I'd expect a similar return to Debrincat, which is a lower end first and a middling NHL player or a 3rd.

That's nowhere near 12th overall and two 2nds.

Whomever trades for Chychrun has to find out if he's actually a lot better than he's been here, then decide what they are willing to re-sign him for. Unless GMPD gets a new job I don't see anyone giving up a ton for that.

 

[HSF]

What if we retain half? Chychrun at $2.3million aav would be a bargain for his "skillset"

its not worth the marginal increase in return to have that cap hit for next year

Cap space is pretty valuable for us. That 2.3 mill could be useful in bringing in another body that another team just can't afford to keep

 

[Tuna99]

They sent the 12th overall pick and two seconds. One season half retained isn't going to make that big of a difference. I'd expect a similar return to Debrincat, which is a lower end first and a middling NHL player or a 3rd.

That's nowhere near 12th overall and two 2nds.

Whomever trades for Chychrun has to find out if he's actually a lot better than he's been here, then decide what they are willing to re-sign him for. Unless GMPD gets a new job I don't see anyone giving up a ton for that.

Chychryn since the return Feb 10:

20 games
-10, 1 G, 3 asst

This is not a player who’s value is going up.

 

[HSF]

7 years of missing the playoffs/outright tanking, should have a cupboard full of NHL-ready prospects right?

Worst part of watching this seasons meaningless Dec-April games is that there’s not even young talent to call up. Ostapchuk has been a breath of fresh air and I’m sure Crookshank will get a call up sooner or later but watching guys like Kubalik and Katchouk play 3rd line minutes with pp2 time hurts my soul. Kastelic doesn’t even belong in the NHL if he’s not finishing his checks anymore

A lot of our high end picks are in the nhl.

7 years of drafting means that within those 7 years a lot of players would have graduated to the NHL.

I think people tend to overrate picks. Do I think top 5-10 picks are important? Yes. After that though you are going to have a lot of misses

Boucher was a big miss and Korchenski would have been nice. I rather use our additional 1st as currency to improve around our core. Dorion obtained the wrong players

 

[bicboi64]

They sent the 12th overall pick and two seconds. One season half retained isn't going to make that big of a difference. I'd expect a similar return to Debrincat, which is a lower end first and a middling NHL player or a 3rd.

That's nowhere near 12th overall and two 2nds.

Whomever trades for Chychrun has to find out if he's actually a lot better than he's been here, then decide what they are willing to re-sign him for. Unless GMPD gets a new job I don't see anyone giving up a ton for that.

Hoping some random ownership group goes full 'imagination' mode, hires Dorion and Staios is the first to fleece him.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You keep repeating the same thing that the team sucks - we know that.

For all Your success stories of Tocchet there is a Mike Sullivan who will Miss the playoffs. nobody in Pittsburg blames the coach everyone is saying their team is slow, has no depth and no prospects. Coach can’t solve that

Back in 1890, when the country was trying to standardize the spelling of locales, Pittsburgh’s ‘h’ was dropped, as the Associated Press tells it. It wasn’t until July 19, 1911 that a lobbying effort brought the ‘h’ back.

Why was it there in the first place? Gen. John Forbes captured Fort Duquesne in 1758 to renamed it Pittsbourgh — named for Scottish Prime Minister of England William Pitt, and pronounced like Edinburgh. The name became Pittsburgh in 1769, and it stuck.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

How come you never posted any records under DJ Smith or Dorion?

The only thing I've seen you post that was remotely similar was point percentage at the beginning of the season like you were trying to make a point that they were doing well or something.

I did, and yes I posted points percentage in mid to late December many times to support my opinion that the Sens were out of the playoff race, again, early in the season….. to counter the many posters who still thought the Sens were “still in it” despite being 10 of 12 points back of the last wildcard spot, …. And by the end of the season I was proven correct.

 

[Tuna99]

Back in 1890, when the country was trying to standardize the spelling of locales, Pittsburgh’s ‘h’ was dropped, as the Associated Press tells it. It wasn’t until July 19, 1911 that a lobbying effort brought the ‘h’ back.

Why was it there in the first place? Gen. John Forbes captured Fort Duquesne in 1758 to renamed it Pittsbourgh — named for Scottish Prime Minister of England William Pitt, and pronounced like Edinburgh. The name became Pittsburgh in 1769, and it stuck.

correct, this happened during ‘the great gonorrhoea with an ‘H’ outbreak of 1796’.

 

[Alex1234]

I did, and yes I posted points percentage in mid to late December many times to support my opinion that the Sens were out of the playoff race, again, early in the season….. to counter the many posters who still thought the Sens were “still in it” despite being 10 of 12 points back of the last wildcard spot, …. And by the end of the season I was proven correct.

I would love to hear the history behind when they decided to replace the "r" on the word or by an "f" like in "despite being 10 of (or) 12 points back of the last wildcard spot"

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

 

[Adrianopolous]

It’s been 7 years since I’ve genuinely was pumped for the NHL playoffs

 

[Tuna99]

It’s been 7 years since I’ve genuinely was pumped for the NHL playoffs

there are Sens fans who are like 10-12 years old that think this team is just the crappiest thing to ever exist, have never seen success and have only seen incompetence

 

[Adrianopolous]

Interesting how I called it the Darkest Hour in 2018, but it's now more like the Darkest 7 Years since then:

Ottawa Senators : Darkest Hour

Has it ever been worse than this? I've been a fan since 2002, and I don't think i've seen anything quite like this.. Even for other teams.

forums.hfboards.com

Mods can this thread be unlocked so I can gloat about how I was right

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Mods can this thread be unlocked so I can gloat about how I was right

I think you should create a thread and celebrate this massive accomplishment on the main boards with everyone

 

[Adrianopolous]

I think you should create a thread and celebrate this massive accomplishment on the main boards with everyone

All you have is Melnyk and Dorion love posts to brag about

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

All you have is Melnyk and Dorion love posts to brag about

Those posts are annoying, but being self-congratulatory about bad times isn't exactly delightful content either.