OT: Failure of a team, Failure of a rebuild

[Tuna99]

I try to talk about it all the time.

Goaltending is crap, but there's a lot of other issues with this team that no one talks about.

This team has a lot more holes than people are willing to admit.

It why I often question if we even have the organizational asset capital to win in the next few years.

We may need to sell a bunch of assets off and recover prospects and picks and try again with a better strategy and foundation and not buy useless players prematurely like debrincat and chychrun.

Disagree, the forward group is solid and good enough without major changes needed

Staois really needs to fix the D and G and these 4 spots in the Lineup and it will turn the team around.

Sanderson - XXXX
Chabot - Zub
XXXX - XXXX

XXXXX
Sogaard

 

[jbeck5]

Disagree, the forward group is solid and good enough without major changes needed

Staois really needs to fix the D and G and these 4 spots in the Lineup and it will turn the team around.

Sanderson - XXXX
Chabot - Zub
XXXX - XXXX

XXXXX
Sogaard

Still have a bunch of holes in the forward group. I don't know if it was this thread, but I went through the forward list that played atleast 1 game for the team when wer were cup contenders... I listed 20 forwards. I believe the first 14-16 forwards were better than our 4th line. So that means we had a "5th line" of forwards better than our current 4th line.

That means we need to bring in 3 guys that are better than the kastelics and Kelly's of the world. They're decent players who can step up in rotation or when injuries happen, but they can't sustain a proper 4th line role for 82 games.

 

[Tuna99]

The problem is half the team allow all the leaks and breakdowns.

I think we have at least 6 moves needed...which is a lot.

I'd add 2 RHD, 3 two way forwards who are gritty, and add a solid goalie.

6 moves means we're still pretty far away.

We probably make half the moves required this year and hopefully half next year.


But this to make the playoffs. Does this team have the capital to win a cup with this core? If not, why waste our time.

I think you eliminate the leakers and find guys who are sound and solid (the Chris Kelly’s, Mark Methot’s, Chris Phillips, Volchenkov, Chris Neil)

Out to help the structure and replace with
Chychryn (Pesces)
Brannstrom (Demelo)
Hamonic (Kleven)
JBD (or keep as a 7th Dman)
Kubalik (Ostapchuk)
Macewen (Crookshank)
Both goalies (Jarry, Ulmark)

 

[jbeck5]

I think you eliminate the leakers and find guys who are sound and solid (the Chris Kelly’s, Mark Methot’s, Chris Phillips, Volchenkov, Chris Neil)

Out to help the structure:
Chychryn
Brannstrom
Hamonic
JBD (or keep as a 7th Dman)
Kubalik
Macewen
Both goalies

Right! But now that you start to add all the spots you want improved as well as all the players you want gone, you start to realize that the amount of moves needed isn't just 1 or two...it's like 6 or 7 of 8. That's a lot for one off season.

I would hope these all get done this off season but realistically it will take a couple seasons to get the roster we think can make the playoffs and compete.

I'm still not sure we have enough to win a cup here, and am worried that we might waste 6 years only getting to the 2nd round once and then have to do a massive rebuild.

That would make it like 25-30 years from the last time we were a contender(2007) by the time we would be ready to compete again next rebuild..

That's a long time for a franchise and it's fans to taste any kind of success.

 

[jbeck5]

Disagree, they have played better defensively under JM.

But they've also played worse offensively, by about the same degree.

Do you remember the start of the year...I think we went like 9-1 in preseason(yes, I know) and then 4-2 out of the gate.

That team was able to be very dangerous wave after wave.

The last 2 years, watching the team high flying out of the gate in October with offensive pressure...

Only to not be able to do that again nowadays.

Look, I'm not pumping up DJ. At all.

We finally saw it this past game, but why has the team struggled to run the score up on some other teams? Why aren't we able to start the game with all these potential 20-30 goal scorers getting a couple quick goals?

I saw us get up on other teams under DJ plenty of times only for them to collapse and let the other team make a comeback.

So I figured, now, under Jacques, we'll still be able to jump up to these early leads, but then we'll be able to shut teams down.

That wasn't the case.

Instead, we stopped having the ability to run up an early lead on other teams. Instead, it seems like 3/4 of the time, the other team gets the lead first.

What happened to coming out flying and taking a big lead under Jacques? Why doesn't that happen anymore?


So I'm noticing pros and cons under Jacques...but overall, it's not really much different. It's like we traded a couple pros and cons to the tune of a net neutral result...

 

[Tuna99]

Right! But now that you start to add all the spots you want improved as well as all the players you want gone, you start to realize that the amount of moves needed isn't just 1 or two...it's like 6 or 7 of 8. That's a lot for one off season.

I would hope these all get done this off season but realistically it will take a couple seasons to get the roster we think can make the playoffs and compete.

I'm still not sure we have enough to win a cup here, and am worried that we might waste 6 years only getting to the 2nd round once and then have to do a massive rebuild.

That would make it like 25-30 years from the last time we were a contender(2007) by the time we would be ready to compete again next rebuild..

That's a long time for a franchise and it's fans to taste any kind of success.

Yeah, I mean my expectations for Staois are nothing short of the best summer in Sens history with Staois perfecting 4 really massive impactful moves (starting goalie, top RD pairing, trade Chychryn, hire HC) and then 2-3 minor moves to help (Brannstrom, Forsberg, depth RW)

i expect Poulin and Staois to get this right and do a lot in a very short time.

It’s almost like making Thai food - you spend 6 hours chopping shit and an entire 6 course meal cooks up in 15 minutes

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Yeah, I mean my expectations for Staois are nothing short of the best summer in Sens history with Staois perfecting 4 really massive impactful moves (starting goalie, top RD pairing, trade Chychryn, hire HC) and then 2-3 minor moves to help (Brannstrom, Forsberg, depth RW)

i expect Poulin and Staois to get this right and do a lot in a very short time.

It’s almost like making Thai food - you spend 6 hours chopping shit and an entire 6 course meal cooks up in 15 minutes

For sure. It's easy for a fresh GM with little to no connections (or favours owed back to him), to get all the right moves in his first off-season in his career.

 

[Micklebot]

One thing that worries me that no one really talks about is how little difference the coaching change made in the overall team play. I don't mean wins and losses or goaltending, I mean how the team plays, breakdowns, structure.

This team has clearly given up and I'm not sure how they get motivated coming into next season if the energy from the offseason changes didn't work for them this season. I'm not confident in this group at all if they can't even be committed to playing better hockey under a new coach. To the contrary, I think the players kind of gave up when Martin took over initially and you could clearly see they didn't like him as much as DJ. You can see the players have been referencing to Martin as a much "different personality". While he is a different personality I'm sure, who gives a f*** about his personality? The guy has a Stanley Cup ring behind the bench and the goal here is to win at all cost.

I think one of the big issues is actually the character in the room. When you're in 27th place and a 36 year old cares more about winning and scoring when games are close than your "core players", you are in deep deep trouble. I really have no belief in this group. If everyone worked as hard as Giroux does this team would be in the playoffs but you can't teach that.

Stutzle is immature in his play. Norris is injured all the time. Batherson is playing half the time. Tkachuk is not good defensively and effort is often not there. Chychrun looks like Mike Reilly.

This is a big part of the "core". Won't go far with that no matter who's the coach. The only guys who have taken steps with Martin under the bench are Chabot and the 4rth liners. That's it.

People are fooling themselves in thinking that goaltending is the main issue. It's not. It's one of the issues. The fact that this team has not tightened up under a new coach and has made no improvements is a major red flag.

So, it's funny, because I see a lot of differences in how we play under Martin than DJ. I find on the forecheck we're more consistent in reloading and getting above the play, we do a better job providing back pressure through the NZ slowing the oppositions rush, the D are as a result better able to keep their gaps controlled slowing and preventing the the entry, we aren't flying the zone early like we did under DJ and are instead supporting the breakout better, we're committing less turnovers, we are blocking more shots,

Under Martin, at 5v5, we are getting more shots, more rush attempts, more rebounds created, more hits, more shots blocked, more takeaways, and fewer giveaways and fewer penalties per game.

/GP​

Shots​

xG/gp​

CF/gp​

SCF/gp​

HDCF/gp​

Rush Attempts​

Rebounds Created​

Total Penalties​

Giveaways​

Takeaways​

Hits​

Shots Blocked​

DJ​

23.38​

1.92​

45.27​

19.69​

8.35​

1.54​

4.42​

4.08​

7.88​

5.00​

16.50​

13.19​

Martin​

24.67​

2.17​

50.74​

22.53​

9.35​

1.77​

5.09​

3.33​

7.47​

6.86​

20.23​

14.35​

There's been plenty of change in how we play for the better. there's also been a degree of mental fatigue setting in imo, with the season being lost and the goaltending continuing to disappoint.

You're right that there's a degree of the team giving up, that happens when you're season has be lost since Nov/Dec, and the goalies are providing a league worst performance. But you get them motivated next year by giving them a reason to believe things will be different, and there's a pretty obvious position to make a change at that will give them some confidence. Some people are hesitant to put the blame on the goalies because it feels like a cop out when that's not the only issue with the team, we still have work to do, we need to be harder to play against in front of the net, we need to deal with adversity better and not just fold when a bad goal goes in, but it's a sinking feeling when any shot can end up in the back of your net.

 

[Tuna99]

For sure. It's easy for a fresh GM with little to no connections (or favours owed back to him), to get all the right moves in his first off-season in his career.

did you just start watching hockey? I can still remember seeing Staois on TSN every week for a decade when he was in the NHL.

And you keep pulling the Tocchet hire out - it was done by a rookie GM with no connections and so was that entire franchise turnaround in 1 season so have some faith

I’m a big Steve Staois fan - I’m a Staliever

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

The team doesn't belong to the frat house anymore and they are still reeling from that imo.

After all the heart and pluckiness previous teams showed this version of the Sens is a bitter disappointment.

Hopefully Alfredsson rubs off on them and player composition is changed.

 

[Micklebot]

For sure. It's easy for a fresh GM with little to no connections (or favours owed back to him), to get all the right moves in his first off-season in his career.

You think a guy with an 18 year career as a player, 5 years working for NHL teams, 7 years as a GM in the OHL and time with Hockey Canada has little to no connections? That's quite the take.

 

[jbeck5]

So, it's funny, because I see a lot of differences in how we play under Martin than DJ. I find on the forecheck we're more consistent in reloading and getting above the play, we do a better job providing back pressure through the NZ slowing the oppositions rush, the D are as a result better able to keep their gaps controlled slowing and preventing the the entry, we aren't flying the zone early like we did under DJ and are instead supporting the breakout better, we're committing less turnovers, we are blocking more shots,

Under Martin, at 5v5, we are getting more shots, more rush attempts, more rebounds created, more hits, more shots blocked, more takeaways, and fewer giveaways and fewer penalties per game.

/GP​

Shots​

xG/gp​

CF/gp​

SCF/gp​

HDCF/gp​

Rush Attempts​

Rebounds Created​

Total Penalties​

Giveaways​

Takeaways​

Hits​

Shots Blocked​

DJ​

23.38​

1.92​

45.27​

19.69​

8.35​

1.54​

4.42​

4.08​

7.88​

5.00​

16.50​

13.19​

Martin​

24.67​

2.17​

50.74​

22.53​

9.35​

1.77​

5.09​

3.33​

7.47​

6.86​

20.23​

14.35​

There's been plenty of change in how we play for the better. there's also been a degree of mental fatigue setting in imo, with the season being lost and the goaltending continuing to disappoint.

You're right that there's a degree of the team giving up, that happens when you're season has be lost since Nov/Dec, and the goalies are providing a league worst performance. But you get them motivated next year by giving them a reason to believe things will be different, and there's a pretty obvious position to make a change at that will give them some confidence. Some people are hesitant to put the blame on the goalies because it feels like a cop out when that's not the only issue with the team, we still have work to do, we need to be harder to play against in front of the net, we need to deal with adversity better and not just fold when a bad goal goes in, but it's a sinking feeling when any shot can end up in the back of your net.

I'm curious. So you mention the aspects where you think we've improved under Jacques. No argument from me there.

But statistically we're very similar, therefore there must have been a trade off.

For all the improvements we've made under Jacques, there must also be areas we got worse. What do you think they are?

What was the team doing better under DJ to offset the improvements under Jacques?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

One thing that worries me that no one really talks about is how little difference the coaching change made in the overall team play. I don't mean wins and losses or goaltending, I mean how the team plays, breakdowns, structure.

This team has clearly given up and I'm not sure how they get motivated coming into next season if the energy from the offseason changes didn't work for them this season. I'm not confident in this group at all if they can't even be committed to playing better hockey under a new coach. To the contrary, I think the players kind of gave up when Martin took over initially and you could clearly see they didn't like him as much as DJ. You can see the players have been referencing to Martin as a much "different personality". While he is a different personality I'm sure, who gives a f*** about his personality? The guy has a Stanley Cup ring behind the bench and the goal here is to win at all cost.

I think one of the big issues is actually the character in the room. When you're in 27th place and a 36 year old cares more about winning and scoring when games are close than your "core players", you are in deep deep trouble. I really have no belief in this group. If everyone worked as hard as Giroux does this team would be in the playoffs but you can't teach that.

Stutzle is immature in his play. Norris is injured all the time. Batherson is playing half the time. Tkachuk is not good defensively and effort is often not there. Chychrun looks like Mike Reilly.

This is a big part of the "core". Won't go far with that no matter who's the coach. The only guys who have taken steps with Martin under the bench are Chabot and the 4rth liners. That's it.

People are fooling themselves in thinking that goaltending is the main issue. It's not. It's one of the issues. The fact that this team has not tightened up under a new coach and has made no improvements is a major red flag.

+ 1 on disagree with the opening statement. Team structure has improved. Our neutral zone has improved. Defensively they play more connected. The breakout is significantly improved with the forwards coming back into the Dzone and helping to break the puck out with possession.
Its not perfect. Some of the players have hard heads when it comes to being effective defensive , without the puck players and the personnel issues are more glaring wrt that.

I think the lack of maturity and the transition from zero concept of defending to playing with more attention to details has not gone as well as we hoped but the are signs of improvement. And some of the players have bought in completely , and some remain projects in that regard. These players were missing this level of coaching since they got into the league and it shows.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

You think a guy with an 18 year career as a player, 5 years working for NHL teams, 7 years as a GM in the OHL and time with Hockey Canada has little to no connections? That's quite the take.

I do think this. I think it shows at trade deadline how many moves he was able to make.

I do hope for the best, but I have a feeling it will not be as most are over assuming

 

[jbeck5]

+ 1 on disagree with the opening statement. Team structure has improved. Our neutral zone has improved. Defensively they play more connected. The breakout is significantly improved with the forwards coming back into the Dzone and helping to break the puck out with possession.
Its not perfect. Some of the players have hard heads when it comes to being effective defensive , without the puck players and the personnel issues are more glaring wrt that.

I think the lack of maturity and the transition from zero concept of defending to playing with more attention to details has not gone as well as we hoped but the are signs of improvement. And some of the players have bought in completely , and some remain projects in that regard. These players were missing this level of coaching since they got into the league and it shows.

You mention all the areas where we improved, but our record and stats remain similar..

So what are all the areas we got worse in to offset the areas we got better in?

As you can tell, we're not climbing the standings, so in your opinion, in what aspects is the team worse at to offset all these improvements?

Everyone talks about the improvements but no one ever talks about the areas we are getting worse at or the areas we haven't been able to improve in.

What is the plan to improve in those areas?

 

[Micklebot]

I'm curious. So you mention the aspects where you think we've improved under Jacques. No argument from me there.

But statistically we're very similar, therefore there must have been a trade off.

For all the improvements we've made under Jacques, there must also be areas we got worse. What do you think they are?

What was the team doing better under DJ to offset the improvements under Jacques?

Well, a big one is Sh% (and surprisingly sv% too)

5v5
DJ: 9.87 sh%, 90.44 sv%
Martin: 8.29 sh%, 89.48 sv%

DJ was only here for 26 games, so there's a bit more impact from, for lack of a better term, "puck luck" to influence those numbers. Sh% under Jacques isn't bad per say, it was just extremely high under DJ, like 4th best in the league good, which likely wasn't sustainable. Interestingly, last year we were dead last in sh% at 5v5.

I do think for much of DJ's time here, the team also believed it still could be a playoff team, and the ship would right itself if they just kept following the system, so the effort level was more consistent under DJ, but that's less about DJ and more about context within the season.

 

[jbeck5]

I do think this. I think it shows at trade deadline how many moves he was able to make.

I do hope for the best, but I have a feeling it will not be as most are over assuming

I agree.

We need to make like 6-8 roster moves for me to be confident...and that doesn't even include getting the right coaching staff.

Then throw in the fact that 1/3 of the roster being changed over can lead to time needed for the roster to gel.

That means we can make all the right moves and still be looking out of the playoffs come December as there would be a feeling out process.

I think people are way too optimistic. We're a lot farther away from competing than people think.

It's not just a quick 1-2 moves and ready to go in October.

Sens fans still haven't learned that we're way too optimistic. We need to tone down our expectations. We're in for a rough ride.

 

[Micklebot]

I do think this. I think it shows at trade deadline how many moves he was able to make.

I do hope for the best, but I have a feeling it will not be as most are over assuming

You realize half the GMs in the league played with or against Staios? He absolutely knows these guys and has connections, kind of crazy to think otherwise.

If he wanted to make more moves at the deadline, I'm sure he could have. That doesn't mean they'd have been in the best interest of the team, or that by making bad moves it would have shown he has connections.

 

[Senscore]

We should hire Pierre Dorion. After seeing the other teams he's helped out he should be owed a lot of favours.

 

[jbeck5]

Well, a big one is Sh% (and surprisingly sv% too)

5v5
DJ: 9.87 sh%, 90.44 sv%
Martin: 8.29 sh%, 89.48 sv%

DJ was only here for 26 games, so there's a bit more impact from, for lack of a better term, "puck luck" to influence those numbers. Sh% under Jacques isn't bad per say, it was just extremely high under DJ, like 4th best in the league good, which likely wasn't sustainable. Interestingly, last year we were dead last in sh% at 5v5.

I do think for much of DJ's time here, the team also believed it still could be a playoff team, and the ship would right itself if they just kept following the system, so the effort level was more consistent under DJ, but that's less about DJ and more about context within the season.

I think people are letting the sens off the hook by putting stock into any improvements while brushing off any negatives by saying "they've given up" or something along those lines.

We should be putting more stock into why we aren't improving and what players are areas of problem here....and it's not just goaltending. Goaltending has nothing to do with getting zero shots in a third period. There are many other poisonous issues with this team.

I've seen the sens beating plenty of sucky records this year (that go back to the early sens days) that have nothing or little to do with goaltending.

Also, if the team is giving up, why aren't we considering THAT a problem?

These are the guys that are supposed to be ultra competitive compared to your average guy, and plenty of average guys give it their all even when they know they're going to lose. It's just part of being honest to yourself and your teammates.

If a player can't care enough to commit to himself, his teammates, and his organization because they're losing, then they need to be identified and shipped out.

This is a much bigger issues than others are mentioning. Players being complacent in their attitude towards the job is a big no no. It's cancerous and spreads through the locker room.

Gotta fix that.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Do you remember the start of the year...I think we went like 9-1 in preseason(yes, I know) and then 4-2 out of the gate.

I remember 6-2 not 9-1

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You mention all the areas where we improved, but our record and stats remain similar..

So what are all the areas we got worse in to offset the areas we got better in?

As you can tell, we're not climbing the standings, so in your opinion, in what aspects is the team worse at to offset all these improvements?

Everyone talks about the improvements but no one ever talks about the areas we are getting worse at or the areas we haven't been able to improve in.

What is the plan to improve in those areas?

Change is hard. While changing, they are thinking more vs reacting while the change takes hold. Still evident in a couple of our top players.
Getting to and going through another season with no playoff hope has effected their effort on many nights , both these go to maturity and personnel.
Cheating for offense may have led to more offense so ... I am guessing goal scoring is down. I think that has to do with the change, and the approach away from run and gun. The immaturity of this team also hindered the acceptance of change and the willingness to change imo... Any form of system or team structure requires everyone pulling on the same rope. We did not have that. It took time and that time took away opportunity to make the playoffs which in turn caused more sulk.

I believe the direction JM and DA set towards a more defensive mindset , better play without the puck , better attention to details is the right one, I do not believe you can win in the NHL unless there is sound team defense.

I think its a very simplistic way to look at it that we should be climbing the standings if we have improved in some areas and thus must have got worse in other areas. If that remains your question. I don't think I can help you.

 

[Tuna99]

I think people are letting the sens off the hook by putting stock into any improvements while brushing off any negatives by saying "they've given up" or something along those lines.

We should be putting more stock into why we aren't improving and what players are areas of problem here....and it's not just goaltending. Goaltending has nothing to do with getting zero shots in a third period. There are many other poisonous issues with this team.

I've seen the sens beating plenty of sucky records this year (that go back to the early sens days) that have nothing or little to do with goaltending.

Also, if the team is giving up, why aren't we considering THAT a problem?

These are the guys that are supposed to be ultra competitive compared to your average guy, and plenty of average guys give it their all even when they know they're going to lose. It's just part of being honest to yourself and your teammates.

If a player can't care enough to commit to himself, his teammates, and his organization because they're losing, then they need to be identified and shipped out.

This is a much bigger issues than others are mentioning. Players being complacent in their attitude towards the job is a big no no. It's cancerous and spreads through the locker room.

Gotta fix that.

When the team falls apart in the 3rd period I worry about team conditioning and that includes the mental strength to play a 60 minute hockey game.

After their stretch where they had some nice wins against good teams they seemed to be a bit of a fog and it seemed more mental then X’s and O’s For me - they just seemed mentally tired of playing desperate hockey which is a huge concern of course

But it could be they hit a plateau and have now fought through it and will get some more nice wins as they have become more
Mentally strong.

 

[Relapsing]

But they've also played worse offensively, by about the same degree.

Do you remember the start of the year...I think we went like 9-1 in preseason(yes, I know) and then 4-2 out of the gate.

That team was able to be very dangerous wave after wave.

The last 2 years, watching the team high flying out of the gate in October with offensive pressure...

Only to not be able to do that again nowadays.

Look, I'm not pumping up DJ. At all.

We finally saw it this past game, but why has the team struggled to run the score up on some other teams? Why aren't we able to start the game with all these potential 20-30 goal scorers getting a couple quick goals?

I saw us get up on other teams under DJ plenty of times only for them to collapse and let the other team make a comeback.

So I figured, now, under Jacques, we'll still be able to jump up to these early leads, but then we'll be able to shut teams down.

That wasn't the case.

Instead, we stopped having the ability to run up an early lead on other teams. Instead, it seems like 3/4 of the time, the other team gets the lead first.

What happened to coming out flying and taking a big lead under Jacques? Why doesn't that happen anymore?


So I'm noticing pros and cons under Jacques...but overall, it's not really much different. It's like we traded a couple pros and cons to the tune of a net neutral result...

Not to be overly simplistic, but they went from run and gun hockey, to trying to figure out how to play a structured defense.

Jms philosophy, as often stated, is offense comes from solid defense.

And yeah, it's a net return, or so it seems. But I'm willing to bet that this will lead to improved play for whoever is around next year. It's laying a foundation for future success.... I hope.

 

[Micklebot]

I think people are letting the sens off the hook by putting stock into any improvements while brushing off any negatives by saying "they've given up" or something along those lines.

We should be putting more stock into why we aren't improving and what players are areas of problem here....and it's not just goaltending. Goaltending has nothing to do with getting zero shots in a third period. There are many other poisonous issues with this team.

I've seen the sens beating plenty of sucky records this year (that go back to the early sens days) that have nothing or little to do with goaltending.

Also, if the team is giving up, why aren't we considering THAT a problem?

These are the guys that are supposed to be ultra competitive compared to your average guy, and plenty of average guys give it their all even when they know they're going to lose. It's just part of being honest to yourself and your teammates.

If a player can't care enough to commit to himself, his teammates, and his organization because they're losing, then they need to be identified and shipped out.

This is a much bigger issues than others are mentioning. Players being complacent in their attitude towards the job is a big no no. It's cancerous and spreads through the locker room.

Gotta fix that.

I've listed tangible things that have improved, then showed where they show up in the stats. I think the aspect of lost season has meant those tangible improvements haven't been as drastic as they could,

As for why isn't the team giving up on a lost season an issue, well it is, but the way to correct that is not get into a lost season in the first place. If guys weren't committing themselves early on when the season was still on the line, you'd have a point, get rid of them. But playing out a string of 50 games with no realistic chance at the playoffs, well it's human nature to not be able to keep the intensity up. It's just like how no team is playing playoff intensity hockey for 82 reg season games, you need to have something on the line to ramp it up. They may be hyper competitive, but they aren't robots.

As for Goaltending having nothing to do with zero shots in the 3rd, I disagree. Goaltending impacts confidence, and confidence impacts everything. Players need to believe the work they put in will make an impact and it's hard to believe that putting your body on the line to block a shot or take a hit to make the play is going to make a difference when your goalie is letting in 40 foot muffins on a regular basis, that's just human nature.