OT: Failure of a team, Failure of a rebuild

[Tuna99]

The Best Case Scenario, the Rookie GM should have hired the best Available Candidate in Mid December as the New Head coach.

This way the team and everyone knows he would be around for at least a few years, and he could have started his restructuring of the team’s systems right away….. this would have given him the rest of the season to see who buys into his system and who does not, and could have worked with the management through the entirety of the offseason giving up close and personal feedback.

Now by bringing in J Martin, only for the rest of season, and everyone knows it, the next coach begins from scratch at training camp, instead of having 57 games with the players already under his belt.

The next coach is likely still employed and focused on the team he works for, and is not seriously looking at the Senators this season.




Can you, or anyone else remember a similar decision, when a coach was fired, and an interim was brought in only for the remainder of the season, with no possibility of returning as the head coach the following season?

Bryan Murray when he rehired himself after firing John Paddock

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Bryan Murray when he rehired himself after firing John Paddock

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Bryan Murray the GM, and went behind the Bench for the rest of the season, and then remained GM after hiring a full time coach?

Not quite the same scenario, as J Martin was a consultant, and will return to being a consultant, and will not be the loudest voice in the room over the off-season.

IF our rookie GM had brought in someone like Berube, armed with a three year contract, the players immediately would know who was in charge, and after seeing them up close and personal for 57 games, he would be one of the loudest voices in the room in the off-season, where the rookie GM has deferred all the tough decisions are to be made.


So far our rookie GM has switched out a goaltender coach, and grabbed a couple of scrubs off the waiver wire, and brought in a substitute teacher for the remaining 57 games of the season…… if you’re pleased with that, please explain why…..

 

[umma gumma]

IF our rookie GM had brought in someone like Berube, armed with a three year contract, the players immediately would know who was in charge, and after seeing them up close and personal for 57 games, he would be one of the loudest voices in the room in the off-season, where the rookie GM has deferred all the tough decisions are to be made.


So far our rookie GM has switched out a goaltender coach, and grabbed a couple of scrubs off the waiver wire, and brought in a substitute teacher for the remaining 57 games of the season…… if you’re pleased with that, please explain why…..

Do you even know if Berube wants to come here at this time? Perhaps he wants to see what is available to him in the off season? You assume too much.

Staios made it very clear early on there was a lot of work to do. Dorion got 7 years...Steve has been here 7 months. You're just complaining for the sake of complaining, stinking up the board.

 

[Tuna99]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Bryan Murray the GM, and went behind the Bench for the rest of the season, and then remained GM after hiring a full time coach?

Not quite the same scenario, as J Martin was a consultant, and will return to being a consultant, and will not be the loudest voice in the room over the off-season.

IF our rookie GM had brought in someone like Berube, armed with a three year contract, the players immediately would know who was in charge, and after seeing them up close and personal for 57 games, he would be one of the loudest voices in the room in the off-season, where the rookie GM has deferred all the tough decisions are to be made.


So far our rookie GM has switched out a goaltender coach, and grabbed a couple of scrubs off the waiver wire, and brought in a substitute teacher for the remaining 57 games of the season…… if you’re pleased with that, please explain why…..

I’m not a happy fan but I’m happy Steve Staois and Dave Poulin are in charge.

I think the team is more broken than you realize. just the last few moves by Dorion that need to be fixed- Chychryn is bad and his value is sinking, Korpisalo sucks and Tarasenko big picture was a bad move for a good player - just fixing those 3 key mistakes to key players is massive not to mention he had to fire the Coach, fire the GM, fire the goalie coach, lost a 1st round pick and had Pinto suspended 41 games.

Let’s judge him on the big picture and not a snapshot of his work

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Bryan Murray the GM, and went behind the Bench for the rest of the season, and then remained GM after hiring a full time coach?

Not quite the same scenario, as J Martin was a consultant, and will return to being a consultant, and will not be the loudest voice in the room over the off-season.

IF our rookie GM had brought in someone like Berube, armed with a three year contract, the players immediately would know who was in charge, and after seeing them up close and personal for 57 games, he would be one of the loudest voices in the room in the off-season, where the rookie GM has deferred all the tough decisions are to be made.


So far our rookie GM has switched out a goaltender coach, and grabbed a couple of scrubs off the waiver wire, and brought in a substitute teacher for the remaining 57 games of the season…… if you’re pleased with that, please explain why…..

I'm unclear on one key point... is our GM a rookie? This is really key for me in evaluating his moves.

 

[Larionov]

Chychrun will still have plenty of value - teams will see his skill set and just assume that he was in a bad situation and miscast in Ottawa. Acquiring him was a mistake by Dorion, almost as bad as the Debrincat trade. In the case of Chychrun, though, it might be easier to recoup approximately what we paid...

 

[PlayOn]

Our rookie GM feels the expectations placed on this being a playoff team (likely by our former GM) were debilitating:

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[Alex1234]

Our rookie GM feels the expectations placed on this being a playoff team (likely by our former GM) were debilitating:

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The rookie GM didn't commit on PO for next season because he knows too well the team needs more than a new goalie to make said PO lol

 

[BondraTime]

Chychrun will still have plenty of value - teams will see his skill set and just assume that he was in a bad situation and miscast in Ottawa. Acquiring him was a mistake by Dorion, almost as bad as the Debrincat trade. In the case of Chychrun, though, it might be easier to recoup approximately what we paid...

Zero chance we get back close to what we paid.

It's another DBC situation, nearly identical

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Our rookie GM feels the expectations placed on this being a playoff team (likely by our former GM) were debilitating:

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spoiled mentally weak team.

 

[PlayOn]

The rookie GM didn't commit on PO for next season because he knows too well the team needs more than a new goalie to make said PO lol

Or maybe he just knows we won’t make the playoffs since Korpisalo will still be our goalie

 

[bicboi64]

Zero chance we get back close to what we paid.

It's another DBC situation, nearly identical

What if we retain half? Chychrun at $2.3million aav would be a bargain for his "skillset"

 

[Tuna99]

spoiled mentally weak team.

Lesson learned on this rebuild:

I thought a happy locker room meant a more productive locker room - wrong

I thought teammates that were close would stick together on the ice and focus on team goals - wrong

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Lesson learned on this rebuild:

I thought a happy locker room meant a more productive locker room - wrong

I thought teammates that were close would stick together on the ice and focus on team goals - wrong

don't give retirement contracts to middling star 20-23 year olds no matter how good their intangibles look.

 

[Senscore]

Lesson learned on this rebuild:

I thought a happy locker room meant a more productive locker room - wrong

I thought teammates that were close would stick together on the ice and focus on team goals - wrong

Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels despised each other but man could they make magic happen in the ring.

Because they took they craft seriously.

 

[Relapsing]

Lesson learned on this rebuild:

I thought a happy locker room meant a more productive locker room - wrong

I thought teammates that were close would stick together on the ice and focus on team goals - wrong

Years from now, it would be an interesting read if someone ever publishes a retrospective analysis of the makeup of this team and why hasn't been successful.

On paper, building off a nucleus of guys that grew up knowing and playing with/against each other had the potential to build a tight locker room that supported each other.

Instead, it looks like it's resulted in a team that doesn't push each other very hard.

My own take on it is that we all need people who challenge us in life, whether directly, or supportively. It's easy to be stuck in your head and think you're doing well in the aggregate, even if you're not getting the results you think you've earned. Having external voices that tell you when you're shit, and not only push, but support you to do better, seems to be key. Maybe that's what Staios has partially been hinting at with bringing in Vets. This team could benefit from voices across the line-up that aren't afraid to rub people the wrong way and be a little cantankerous in the locker room.

 

[PlayOn]

Years from now, it would be an interesting read if someone ever publishes a retrospective analysis of the makeup of this team and why hasn't been successful.

On paper, building off a nucleus of guys that grew up knowing and playing with/against each other had the potential to build a tight locker room that supported each other.

Instead, it looks like it's resulted in a team that doesn't push each other very hard.

My own take on it is that we all need people who challenge us in life, whether directly, or supportively. It's easy to be stuck in your head and think you're doing well in the aggregate, even if you're not getting the results you think you've earned. Having external voices that tell you when you're shit, and not only push, but support you to do better, seems to be key. Maybe that's what Staios has partially been hinting at with bringing in Vets. This team could benefit from voices across the line-up that aren't afraid to rub people the wrong way and be a little cantankerous in the locker room.

Pretty much.

I think DJ kind of just failed to recognize when it was time to tone down the optimism and push them. When they were rookies it made sense that whatever mistakes were made he’d throw them back out there because you don’t want them playing scared. But then they got experience and they were still allowed to make the same mistakes over and over again. The core improved offensively under him, but their defensive games have gone absolutely nowhere.

I don’t think these guys have poor work ethic or they’re lazy. I just think it’s human nature that when your coach and GM and all your teammates are telling you that you are going to win, there’s an element where you don’t actually realize the challenge ahead of you. I think they kind of believed it would just happen naturally and one day it would click. Then Jacques comes in and straight up tells them they will never win in this league if they keep playing like this. I think an offseason to digest everything and clear their heads will help a lot when it’s all said and done.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Our rookie GM feels the expectations placed on this being a playoff team (likely by our former GM) were debilitating:

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We're not doing the players any favors by babying them.

This will be the 7th straight year we've missed the playoffs, of course we should be telling the players the expectation is to make the playoffs.

If that is a debilitating expectation for this group of players we should be blowing it up this summer.

 

[swiftwin]

This will be the 7th straight year we've missed the playoffs, of course we should be telling the players the expectation is to make the playoffs.

How is this relevant to players who have only been on the team a few seasons?

I'm pretty sure Chabot is the only person in the organization who has been here those 7 years, including the owner, GM, coach, etc.

 

[Hale The Villain]

How is this relevant to players who have only been on the team a few seasons?

I'm pretty sure Chabot is the only person in the organization who has been here those 7 years, including the owner, GM, coach, etc.

How is it not relevant to every player and person in this organization?

We've sucked for the better part of a decade and have traded a boatload of assets trying to push this team from rebuilding status to the playoffs.

Who cares when they joined, playoffs should absolutely have been the expectation/goal for this team.

 

[swiftwin]

How is it not relevant to every player and person in this organization?

We've sucked for the better part of a decade and have traded a boatload of assets trying to push this team from rebuilding status to the playoffs.

Who cares when they joined, playoffs should absolutely have been the expectation/goal for this team.

Who's "we"? The "we" you're talking about is just a name and a logo. Almost nobody was around 7 years ago, including the owner, GM, coach, etc. Beyond the name and the logo, this is not the same organization.

What happened 7 years ago has no relevance to anyone in the organization.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Do you even know if Berube wants to come here at this time? Perhaps he wants to see what is available to him in the off season? You assume too much.

Staios made it very clear early on there was a lot of work to do. Dorion got 7 years...Steve has been here 7 months. You're just complaining for the sake of complaining, stinking up the board.

I’m not the only one saying that using Martin for the rest of season was a mistake…..

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I'm unclear on one key point... is our GM a rookie? This is really key for me in evaluating his moves.

Well he has fired the coach, with 57 games remaining, switched up the goaltender coach, grabbed a couple of AHLers off the waiver wire and traded an UFA for a couple of mid round draft picks…. Oh and the team is playing just as bad with the interim as they were with DJS…. So maybe not a rookie, but not much to speak of so far….am looking for some massive moves this off season.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Well he has fired the coach, with 57 games remaining, switched up the goaltender coach, grabbed a couple of AHLers off the waiver wire and traded an UFA for a couple of mid round draft picks…. Oh and the team is playing just as bad with the interim as they were with DJS…. So maybe not a rookie, but not much to speak of so far….am looking for some massive moves this off season.

I'm hoping for the "right" moves. We've had enough big deal misses from the last rookie GM. Time to bat for average instead of power I think.

 

[Tuna99]

Well he has fired the coach, with 57 games remaining, switched up the goaltender coach, grabbed a couple of AHLers off the waiver wire and traded an UFA for a couple of mid round draft picks…. Oh and the team is playing just as bad with the interim as they were with DJS…. So maybe not a rookie, but not much to speak of so far….am looking for some massive moves this off season.

Staois has to do rebalance the team - like rebuild from scratch the RD and Goaltending and that doesn’t include all the cap complications and no trades to Ottawa let alone Norris status and a forward group top 6 or bottom 6 that isn’t getting it done.

It’s like someone was trying badly to make you a martini when what you wanted and needed an Old fashioned all along. Whole different drink, even the glass is different.

Sens want to be like Boston - like okay you can start by being in 10th last place and move on from there.